Khaos Super Gas Saver

[ghosthunter]

Look at it this way. I have more to lose than any of you here. It is I that needs the answers. I'm not here to sell.

if you have so many important questions about the device, why ask us? It should be that Inventionhaus should be the one to furnish you with all the evidence you should ever need. The fact that they cannot provide properly documented testing speaks for itself.

At worst you could have bought one or 2 Khaos and set yourself back PHP 6,500 to PHP 13,000. If that thing is indeed a hoax, we may be liable for a refund to hundreds of customers. Question is will Inventionhaus refund their dealers?

*sigh*

P6500 to P13,000 is what some people earn in a month.
Maybe it is pocketchange to you, I can only guess by your comment.

As I have mentioned a few times before, my brother bought TWO khaos units and had them installed to his Ford Expedition and Chevy Venture. After a few weeks of observation, he had these comments:

- loss of engine power / hard time accelerating
- no improvement in fuel economy

So where's the refund?

Procedure for the refund is to bring over your vehicle to Inventionhaus' office and have them test your vehicle by the following procedure:

1. they will put in 1 liter of gasoline in your tank and drive around with the khaos device in place.
2. they will put another 1 liter of gasoline in your tank and drive around without the khaos device in place.
3. if they conclude that there is no gain in milage, they will refund your money.

Of course that doesn't include that they will try to convince you that your khaos device simply needs to be properly calibrated for it to function. So that means they will {i]calibrate[/i] the device and you will drive away and then you have to come back again after observing a couple of weeks THEN they will do the above mentioned testing. This is just too much time and hassle for most people to spend, not to mention more wasted gasoline.

If the device works, it should work the first time, period. No if nor but.

To date there is no hard evidence to say Khaos does not work, nor the other way around.

how about junked khaos units? hard enough, it should be since it made of aluminum.

Case closed? Sheesh! I am your most credible source for first hand info on Khaos.

you?!? credible?

I'd rather use another word to describe you... and "credible" is not even remotely close.

Most of the comments here are third-party. Useless.

how about a mazda 323 owner who junked his khaos unit after having bad experiences with it?... he's a tiskot member. In fact he already posted in this thread a few days ago.

[Bogeyman]

Question is will Inventionhaus refund their dealers?

Maybe you should have thought about this before cashing in on Inventionhaus, eh, Mr. Moderator?

[the_wildthing]

...
Come on!? Stop throwing objectivity out of the window with your juvenile responses. Lets talk facts :

Fact 1 : 15: 1 A/F ratio is NOT LEAN. Reference - The Double A : Book of the Car. Compiled from works of 37 contributing writers such as A. Baker BSc(Eng) FIMechE. ACGI, Donald Bastow BSc(Eng). CEng., Dr, Stephen Black MRCS, MRCP etc. I will quote from P. 60, the chapter on Petrol - What it has to do. "The correct ratio of air and petrol for good combustion is approximately 15 parts of air to 1 part of petrol by weight. This allows complete combustion with minimum waste, but it may be weakened to 16:1 for economical steady speed cruising."

The operating word here is approximately. Is not 14.7 approximately 15? In other books I've read, the stoichiometric ratio is sometimes 14.6. So to say that Khaos makes an engine burn lean is baseless.

The question should be for you naysayers is does the Khaos device actually regulate 15:1 a/f ratio? If so how?

There I have armed you with a more potent weapon. Only Planas can answer that.

...

I can't find the thread that explains this at length...

[ghosthunter]

...
Come on!? Stop throwing objectivity out of the window with your juvenile responses. Lets talk facts :

Fact 1 : 15: 1 A/F ratio is NOT LEAN. Reference - The Double A : Book of the Car. Compiled from works of 37 contributing writers such as A. Baker BSc(Eng) FIMechE. ACGI, Donald Bastow BSc(Eng). CEng., Dr, Stephen Black MRCS, MRCP etc. I will quote from P. 60, the chapter on Petrol - What it has to do. "The correct ratio of air and petrol for good combustion is approximately 15 parts of air to 1 part of petrol by weight. This allows complete combustion with minimum waste, but it may be weakened to 16:1 for economical steady speed cruising."

The operating word here is approximately. Is not 14.7 approximately 15? In other books I've read, the stoichiometric ratio is sometimes 14.6. So to say that Khaos makes an engine burn lean is baseless.

The question should be for you naysayers is does the Khaos device actually regulate 15:1 a/f ratio? If so how?

There I have armed you with a more potent weapon. Only Planas can answer that.

...

I can't find the thread that explains this at length...

I dont have the thread either but some thinking I have deduced the working mechanism of the Khaos device.

The knobs on the device is to tune it for a specific car. This would be connected to a spring-actuated valve. The valve is set to open/close on a certain vacuum pressure coming from the engine's air intake. The spring rate is critical in where the device should be fully open to let air in when vacuum is high (example: 20psi vacuum) and fully closed when vacuum pressure reads zero. The spring actuated valve should be partly open between 0-20psi vacuum pressure. Add a dish scrubbing pad to act as air filter to minimize dirt from entering the engine's internals thru the device.

This is why you can see pictures of Mr. Pablo Planas holding a vacuum guage during a demo of the device to some peeps from the press.

Nothing so mysterious & secret about the Khaos Super Duper Turbo Charger device. :twak:

[BlueBimmer]

ui reverse engineering ba yan? galing! nyahaha

[ghosthunter]

ui reverse engineering ba yan? galing! nyahaha

my first job right out of college was R&D for an automation and robotics company. Experience comes in handy, no?

[mazdamazda]

Add a dish scrubbing pad to act as air filter to minimize dirt from entering the engine's internals thru the device.

can you believe it? instead of installing a proper air filter / breather (which will cost only P500) they installed a foam? filter they say? first time i heard of a filter that can be cleaned by soap & water (and also without adding the "holding" oil)

i wonder how much gunk & dirt gets sucked into your engine everytime the KSTC lets in unmetered air.

and this is a P6500 device!!! dont' tell me the rest of the cost is spent on "R&D"

[ILuvDetailing]

To say that Mr. Planas won't submit Khaos to a third party tester because they would copy it is a lame excuse. Didn't he get a patent for his product? I'm sure he did not after 30 years of "Research and Development". He could sue the people who dare "copy" his product right? and with 15,000 units sold, he's got a lot of money for a good lawyer.

[Freeman]

Ghosthunter :

if you have so many important questions about the device, why ask us? It should be that Inventionhaus should be the one to furnish you with all the evidence you should ever need. The fact that they cannot provide properly documented testing speaks for itself.

Naturally I would want to hear all sides and issues for better judgement. I have practically all of Khaos' documents, certificates and testimonials. I also had corresponded with Tony of fuelsavinginfo.com. He has been very helpful. This was the lengthiest thread on this subject so I naturally gravitated towards it. So far what you are saying is right, I may have wasted my time here. All I have read is rehashed third party pseudo techno babble explanations which is beginning to sound like your favorite PR guys.

The true expert in this field, is Tony from the U.K. He was modest enough to have found common ground with me on this issue :

QUOTE from 4x4ph.com forum (Freeman * Jan 20 2005, 06:25 PM)
However, the fact still remains that Tony's claims are also inconclusive - with regards to the Khaos device - as he has not done any actual testing on it nor has he lay an eye or finger on it. (Give me this Tony - I am stating a fact).
Indeed. Theoretical evaluation of the device, as well as its apparent similarity to devices that are known to be useless, strongly suggests that the Khaos is too. But agreed, that is not proof that it doesn't work

For the entire transcript please refer to http://4x4ph.com/forum/index.php?act...5&t=2280&st=30

He is undoubtedly the most credible person to have participated in this discussion, as we all know his web site is a common and popular reference point.

Yet some of you have the audacity to say matter of factly that Khaos does not work. This is the height of arrogance. And ignorance!

I rest my case!

But, not to worry I will be back when I have more news regarding more recent tests and evaluation of the product. Yes, yes, of course, whether good or bad for Khaos.

Oh by the way Ghost Hunter my intrepid moderator - Correction : Khaos is not made of aluminum, the knobs are never adjusted to tune for a certain vehicle, they are always in a fixed position. The vacuum meter is used by the installers to test the device right before it is installed and at the same time explain to the client how it works. What spring rate? What valve opens at 20 psi. Hey boy - that sounds like the Ecotek device not the Khaos... Jesus... I'm beginning to doubt your brother story.

Please stop with the oppresive rich man thing to gain sympathy.

Robotics? Supermarket?

Goodbye.

For now.

Hey Frank Drebin, Ungas wheres the beer?

[Bogeyman]

Yet some of you have the audacity to say matter of factly that Khaos does not work. This is the height of arrogance.

On the contrary, Freeman: that Pablo Planas has the audacity to ignore valid calls for independent testing of his product is, quite simply, the height of arrogance, ignorance and selfishness. A true man of science is never afraid to share his knowledge with the world.

Obviously he thinks too highly of himself, refusing to come down from his newfound pedestal and to submit his beloved creation to a battery of professional technical scrutiny. And because of what? His excuse that some simpleton will steal his idea once he does so?

He should ask himself this: is the Khaos concept even worth stealing, when efforts are already underway worldwide to find alternative fuel sources that will render the KSTC worse than useless?

[pissword]

sir Freeman... why not test it in your car?? ikaw na po mismo ang mag test... sige na nang matapos na ito mura lang iyon para sa inyo, sa dami na ng nabenta na KHAOS...btw, ilan na po na nabenta ninyo?

why not do it yourself? do mr. planas a big favor nang mamarket na ito ng may tunay na scientific test results... pag napatunayan eh sigurado tiba tiba po kayo

friendly advice lang naman po...

btw, i'm against your practice of selling a product na hindi niyo po pinapaniwalaan...

[ghosthunter]

Naturally I would want to hear all sides and issues for better judgement. I have practically all of Khaos' documents, certificates and testimonials.

since you have nearly all the documentation inventionhaus can give you and it still gives you so much doubt on how effective the device is, what is it stopping you from concluding the obvious? Potential profits?

Yet some of you have the audacity to say matter of factly that Khaos does not work. This is the height of arrogance. And ignorance!

maybe you should redirect that audacity to your beloved khaos inventor, mr Pablo Planas for trying to use PR tactics instead of hard data to prove the device works.

ignorance? LOL, maybe someone selling a device of which he has no confidence on its effectiveness or even if it works at all. Now thats funny!

I rest my case!

only if you take a rest from here...

But, not to worry I will be back when I have more news regarding more recent tests and evaluation of the product. Yes, yes, of course, whether good or bad for Khaos.

I won't be holding my breath, bud.

BTW, make sure the test vehicle isn't the government owned 19 year old Nissan Datsun. hahaha

Oh by the way Ghost Hunter my intrepid moderator - Correction : Khaos is not made of aluminum, the knobs are never adjusted to tune for a certain vehicle, they are always in a fixed position. The vacuum meter is used by the installers to test the device right before it is installed and at the same time explain to the client how it works. What spring rate? What valve opens at 20 psi. Hey boy - that sounds like the Ecotek device not the Khaos.

have you taken a good look inside one of Planas' devices yet?

BTW, ecotek does not have a spring actuated valve. Its basically a breather with an adjustable valve knob to control the amount of air flowing thru it.

I'm beginning to doubt your brother story.

I know what i know.

How about you? Do you know what you are selling to be putting so much faith into it?

Please stop with the oppresive rich man thing to gain sympathy.

look who's doing the branding and labeling! LOL.

Trying to make me look like some multinational conglomerate oppressively taking advantage of the hapless consumer isn't going to get you anywhere.

If I were even close to being called "rich", I'd rather be driving a BMW 5 series, not a japanese 1.6 sedan.

Robotics? Supermarket?

why?... can't a guy have different jobs to earn a decent living? And also, I kinda miss those days of years gone by where I could play/tinker with electric motors, pneumatics, hydraulic actuators, PLCs, various sensors and getting paid for it.

Anyway, its not any more proposterous than a computer programmer selling automotive accessories for a living.

BTW, Freeman, you are trying to change the topic. You called for us to be objective, so what does my mix of job experiences diminishes me?

Goodbye.

For now.

aw! sucks!

[ghosthunter]

sir Freeman... why not test it in your car?? ikaw na po mismo ang mag test... sige na nang matapos na ito mura lang iyon para sa inyo, sa dami na ng nabenta na KHAOS...btw, ilan na po na nabenta ninyo?

why not do it yourself? do mr. planas a big favor nang mamarket na ito ng may tunay na scientific test results... pag napatunayan eh sigurado tiba tiba po kayo

Hey Freeman!

you've been challenged. And since you do sell them, it shouldn't really cost you a single centavo to test one unit in your own personal car.

:car:

[ghosthunter]

..... efforts are already underway worldwide to find alternative fuel sources that will render the KSTC worse than useless?

well, not that useless. Its a pretty good paperweight.

[Freeman]

Ghost Huntress wrote :

BTW, ecotek does not have a spring actuated valve. Its basically a breather with an adjustable valve knob to control the amount of air flowing thru it.

You are still wrong about Khaos. And how does Ecotek's valve knob control air flow? Thru a spring valve! Come on man, the more you write the more you are exposed as a wannabe techie!

Please give it a rest, start moderating to save face. You seem to relish my absence, then stop provoking and start moderating. I aint a moderator here so that permits me to vigorously state my side.

Of course I have my own evaluation of the product and actual tests. Duh?! Why present them when you've all branded my ass biased? If it passes your scrutiny, what weight will your account or even a certification from the almighty Ghost Hunter carry? Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Will I get sales from you, no way, your pride wont permit you too.

Let us just wait for more credible tests from a third part which a majority of dealers are all demanding from IH. Lets wait.

By the way, can I have the serial numbers of your brothers Khaos devices? Just for verification. By the way did you work for that robotics company that builds car-lifts and animatronic for amusement centers? Please give me their contact nos.

[ghosthunter]

Ghost Huntress wrote :

so what's this?... another attempt at name calling?

You are still wrong about Khaos. And how does Ecotek's valve knob control air flow? Thru a spring valve!

The knob is to control the size of the openning for the air to pass thru. Maybe you should try to understand the working principles first.

Of course I have my own evaluation of the product and actual tests. Duh?! Why present them when you've all branded my ass biased?

why not tell us?.. scared that your own personal tests have proved something you have been suspecting?

By the way did you work for that robotics company that builds car-lifts and animatronic for amusement centers? Please give me their contact nos.

unfortunately when they transfered location from Buendia to the newer location beside Manila Zoo, I didn't get their new landline numbers. Why not ask Mr. Sam Cruz (president and owner) if he knows me. Say hi for me to him.

BTW, the company' name is Robotics and Mechatronics, Inc.

[BlueBimmer]

i thought i had the most juvenile responses here, e juvenile ka rin naman pala freeman e, and ur 39 yrs old tsktsk at least being juvenile in my mid 20s is somewhat acceptable than being in ur late 30s sheesh.

[ILuvDetailing]

Let us just wait for more credible tests from a third part which a majority of dealers are all demanding from IH. Lets wait.

So Mr. Planas has agreed to let a third part test his product? Halleluyah!!! Wasn't it just yesterday you told us that He (Mr. Planas) didn't want a third party to test his product? Because they might "copy" it. Ano ba talaga kuya? You always give us conflicting statements thats why most of the posters here doubt your credibility. First you claim your in the "middle" ground and not a member of inventionhaus, but obviously you exposed yourself when you eventually said you were selling chaos. This really bothers me.

What we want here are the facts not some mumbo jumbo statements with no definite answers.

Of course I have my own evaluation of the product and actual tests. Duh?! Why present them when you've all branded my ass biased? If it passes your scrutiny, what weight will your account or even a certification from the almighty Ghost Hunter carry? Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Will I get sales from you, no way, your pride wont permit you too.

You already have some "actual tests" of Khaos? And you had to be provoked to spit it out. Amazing! Tell us what car did you test it on? Road conditions? Traffic? Time? Kindly share it with us.

Naturally I would want to hear all sides and issues for better judgement.

Geez man, this is not politics or showbiz, what we have here is a mechanical device which claims to save on gas, whether it works or not, you obviously know our side, then why not prove otherwise with FACTS, not testimonials or inconclusive tests.

[ghosthunter]

[I]By the way, can I have the serial numbers of your brothers Khaos devices? Just for verification.

serial no. 7716


serial no. 7717

SO here's my question, can you get me the refund for these two units of Khaos?

[empy]

Yes, we sell KSTC along with other products.

[size=10]AH HA![/size]

just a friendly word of advice - perhaps you should have disclosed this first when you first posted? that way we would have known where you were coming from.

so now, can you blame us for being skeptical of you as an unbiased source?

one more question - pending confirmation of your so-called doubts, have you pulled khaos from your store shelves to avoid ill will with your loyal customers?

of course there's free speech on this forum. just don't get mad or go crying to Otep Rivera if no one agrees with you. Ghosthunter is not censoring or moderating your posts, or otherwise abusing his moderator powers

please do publish your independent tests. even if the impartiality of these tests can be questioned, it's better than what we have now. let the reader decide to believe them or not.