Khaos Super Gas Saver

[GlennSter]

how about, good 'ol regular maintenance and good driving habits?

a THINKING brain, perhaps?

[Ischaramoochie]

how about, good 'ol regular maintenance and good driving habits?

a THINKING brain, perhaps?

well, that's nice. regular maintanance and good driving habits are indeed helpful for obtaining an efficient engine. however, no matter how lightly you step on the gas, or how seldom you use the engine brake, lifting your foot from the throttle always results in unburnt and wasted fuel.

[BlueBimmer]

here's proof ur fooling nobody, a celfon stall renting in our place has been selling the kstc for over a year now and not 1 has been sold. they have these huge ass poster and brochures but the customers know better. if u cant fool normal people, dont even dream of fooling car enthusiasts. the stall owner even tried to convince me to try one on my bimmer to which i politely declined.

dont think ur smarter than the car manufacturers who spends millions if not billions of dollars in research to improve their engine emissions and fuel consumption. sure im all for filipino inventions but it is a whole different ballgame when ur screwing people over.

[Ischaramoochie]

here's proof ur fooling nobody, a celfon stall renting in our place has been selling the kstc for over a year now and not 1 has been sold. they have these huge ass poster and brochures but the customers know better. if u cant fool normal people, dont even dream of fooling car enthusiasts. the stall owner even tried to convince me to try one on my bimmer to which i politely declined.

dont think ur smarter than the car manufacturers who spends millions if not billions of dollars in research to improve their engine emissions and fuel consumption. sure im all for filipino inventions but it is a whole different ballgame when ur screwing people over.

that's a nice story, but nobody's buying it. aside from it being anecdotal, it would not be possible.

the KSTC dealership contract lasts for only 6 months, and is subject to renewal, depending on the volume of sales. it would be impossible for a dealer to have his contract renewed in spite of having zero sales for the year.

however, let me play with your logic for a while. our office has been averaging 30 units a month, for 2 months. our advertising is minimal, and we rely solely on referrals made by our satisfied customers. what does that say?

p.s. one last thing: KSTC dealers don't sell units per se. we install them.

[BlueBimmer]

u want proof? before u start calling my story bogus look this up. our store is located in general santos. celfon store renting is CELLUTEL, owner is DAVE. look for the # urself. i wont name his surname since this is the internet after all. i suggest u kol that up before accusing me of being a liar fool.

[Ischaramoochie]

u want proof? before u start calling my story bogus look this up. our store is located in general santos. celfon store renting is CELLUTEL, owner is DAVE. look for the # urself. i wont name his surname since this is the internet after all. i suggest u kol that up before accusing me of being a liar fool.

well then, thanks for being defensive. although don't expect me to believe your story just like that. in any case, your story proves nothing, as not all dealers share the same fate. if you are basing your impression of the product from the number of sales, then i suggest you call the main office and ask how many units they sell in a day. that's your logic, not mine.

[BlueBimmer]

it proves one thing, that ur a chickenshit who denies proof. and now ur saying not all dealer share the same fate, i thought u said it is impossible for a dealer to have 0 sales? u r contradicting ur own post. that shows how credible u are. deny away fool.

[Ischaramoochie]

it proves one thing, that ur a chickenshit who denies proof. and now ur saying not all dealer share the same fate, i thought u said it is impossible for a dealer to have 0 sales? u r contradicting ur own post. that shows how credible u are. deny away fool.

actually, i denied nothing since you proved nothing. would you please care to provide proof in black-and-white? a sales report would be nice. a dealership agreement? a written certification? a photo? all i can bank on is your statement, so why expect me to just believe you? you won't believe the claims of Khaos without ample proof, so why expect us to believe you?

[BlueBimmer]

hey ive given u the dealer name and even the owner, u want me to spoon feed everything to u? dream on buddy! and r u stupid or something? y are u here then? isnt it to prove something bout ur product?? what with all ur documents etc. it is u who has something to prove to us not the other way around hahaha! fool indeed!

[kiper]

Wala pa ba ung hinihintay naming EPA TEST RESULTS..?

[A121]

I am sorry, I wouldn't buy KSTC.

Even though i have a carby engine, i still believe that keeping the engine in tip top shape is way, way better than merely putting a device that claims to save me fuel. I have read that a lean mixture in the A/F produces NOx, which in turn destroys lung tissues once inhaled. Yes, I can save on fuel and have *some* engine power will not compensate the probability of having lung problems in the future.

EFI and Carb works on the same principle but both of them are different. In an EFI engine, the computer makes adjustments to an engine everytime it runs. However, in a carbed setup, the engine runs only at one setting everytime. In theory, putting your device on an EFI setup will make the computer negate the effects of your device. The engine will still run according to its stock specifications. Likewise, putting your device in a carb setup is a waste of money because a mechanic can easily adjust the A/F mixture by turning 2 screws.

Sir, i suggest that you more tests on your device so you can prove that it works. Every data that you have presented to us is inconclusive. One test doesn't mean that it will be the same for everyone. Please review the scientific method, sir.

[johnqpublic318]

Check out Ischaramoochie's post on 4x4ph. This dude is trying to hard sell Khaos. Airbleed devices have been deemed bogus by the U.S. FTC and U.K. DOT.

http://4x4ph.com/forum/index.php?act...30&#entry33932

[A121]

sir jqp,

very well explained! :D

[ghosthunter]

Wala pa ba ung hinihintay naming EPA TEST RESULTS..?

As requested:


Federal Certification Exhaust Emission Standards

for Light Duty Vehicles and Light Duty Trucks
(February 2000)

NMHC: 0.211 g/km
CO: 2.11 g/km
NOx: 0.62 g/km




ARTC Automotive Research & Testing Center (Taiwan)

Report No. B93EG120
Report Date: July 14, 2004
Client: Inventionhaus Internation Corp.
Vehicle: Mitsubishi Freeca 2.0L

NMHC: 1.076 g/km
CO: 7.85 g/km
NOx: 3.04 g/km

(from a Khaos brochure)
Its 100% complete combustion technology gives you more engine power while reducing your vehicle's emission by almost 99%.

given the exhaust emissions are much much over the EPA limits, I wonder how does that count as 99% reduction?

[ghosthunter]

that's a nice story, but nobody's buying it. aside from it being anecdotal, it would not be possible.

I also think khaos' testimonials can also be considered anectodal too.

[ghosthunter]

1. EFI engines are essentially the same as carb engines. the only difference is that carbs use the venturi principle to introduce fuel while EFI engines use MAF sensors to control fuel supply. besides, have the variables changed over time? please offer some proof if that is the case.

Excuse me, the basic function is the same (to provide roughly the correct ratio of fuel to air to the engine) BUT EFI engines are a bit more sophisticated than that. The efi engine computer will adjust the fuel-air ratio according to load and RPM to provide correct combustion at all times. This includes atmospheric pressure.

Carburated engines can only be tuned for a certain condition. Thats the limitation of a mechanical carburated system.

Your comparison of a carb and efi engine is like comparing a typewriter and a computer.

2. a testimonial from DENR. are you sying that DENR should not be taken as an authority?

Yes. Simply because it is still just a testimonial. There was no mention on how the test was conducted, equiptment used, procedure, test results and control setups to verify data.

3. as far as i know, US standards for CO and HC are .5%; perhaps you are talking about NOx? even if NOx emission was increased by a fraction, this is more than compensated for by the increase in engine power, lessened CO and HC emissions, and higher fuel efficiency. this just shows that you can't have everything you want.

let me refresh your memory...


US EPA Federal Certification Exhaust Emission Standards
for Light Duty Vehicles and Light Duty Trucks
(February 2000)

NMHC: 0.211 g/km
CO: 2.11 g/km
NOx: 0.62 g/km


ARTC Automotive Research & Testing Center (Taiwan)
Report No. B93EG120
Report Date: July 14, 2004
Client: Inventionhaus Internation Corp.
Vehicle: Mitsubishi Freeca 2.0L

NMHC: 1.076 g/km
CO: 7.85 g/km
NOx: 3.04 g/km

So where is your claimed decrease in emissions? Your one & only "scientific" test only proves that your Mitsubishi Freeca does not current pollution standards.

if you want to eliminate pollution completely, i know of one device which can acieve that; it's called a bicycle.

Not true. There is also the electric golf carts, electric scooter and electric jeepney (it was displayed at a DOST exhibit some years back).

BTW, I would just love a device that really eliminates pollution completely. Unfornuately your beloved device INCREASES the pollution that comes out from the car's tail pipe.

BTW2, so you say that the khaos cannot eliminate pollution. So that would also be saying that the Khaos brochure tells a LIE about the ZERO POLLUTION claim.

now, do you have anything to present which proves that the device is ineffective, or does not live up to its claims, or are you simply content in making negative comments?

The burden of proof (that your device works as claimed) lies in your hands, not ours. You have to defend it against critisism of people, not the other way around.

don't blame me though, i'm just expecting more from you, seeing that you're a moderator.

So what if I am a moderator? Does that give you more rights in airing your views than me?

Am I censoring you? yes or no? Mind you, some time back, the other mods have already thought of closing ALL threads relating to such products with similar claims BUT we have kept this particular thread simply for people like you, Vixen and Odee.

I am letting you have your say here. I am not here to hold your trembling hands against people who also have the right to say their thoughts, just like you.

If you expect more from a moderator, I suggest you, Vixen, Odee and Mr. Pablo Planas create a internet discussion forum on your website just to talk about your device.

[ghosthunter]

DENR Certification:

BTW, who is Egar Chua?

Pilipinas Shell country chairman is Edgar Chua

[ghosthunter]

.... lifting your foot from the throttle always results in unburnt and wasted fuel.

Maybe thats true with the 1978 Nissan Datsun with plate number SAC-246 but with today's efi engines, it doesn't happen anymore simply because the fuel injectors will cut fuel the moment you release the gas pedal and only resume to maintain engine from stalling.

[ghosthunter]

however, let me play with your logic for a while. our office has been averaging 30 units a month, for 2 months. our advertising is minimal, and we rely solely on referrals made by our satisfied customers. what does that say?

minimal advertising... hmm
-BIG billboard along south superhighway approaching Quirino.
-radio advertisement plugs on certain FM stations.
-BIG roadside banners near shops selling said items.

Add to that:
-salaries of marketing staff
-salaries of technicians (installers)
-percentage income from dealers
-manufacturing
-office overheads
-taxes, etc

All paid for by the 30 units/month = P195,000 gross

That says your profit margin per unit is pretty high.

[Walter]

Having high number of sales does not prove that a product is good, it can also mean there are a lot of people who are being taken for a ride.

So Vixen has given up and decides to bring in someone with a little bit more knowledge about the product. This should be interesting.