China Corona Virus Outbreak

[uls]

Uls, it is not that simple. It is not as simple as harvesting the plasma & injecting it then ok na, the person will be cured. Horses & humans are very different. Mataas ang chances for reactions kaya dapat itest muna. Pero, like I said, desperate times. Malamang i fast track production & approval.


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the company will not inject the horse plasma into humans

they will harvest the SARSCOV2 antibodies from the horse plasma

they are making antibody products

i meant receiving the antibodies from horses is similar in principle to convalescent plasma therapy without the horse plasma

it's not a vaccine

they're not using horses as guinea pigs to test a vaccine which is what you said earlier

[uls]

pansin ko may confusion re antibodies and vaccine

antibody products are not vaccines

monoclonal / polyclonal antibodies are not vaccines

they're antibodies made outside the human body and injected into humans to attack a specific target

they'll fade away after doing their job

--

vaccines are what make your body make antibodies and the antibodies last for years

[dr. d]

So long as the subjects agree, its ok. There are surprisingly a lot of altruistic individuals. I remember there was a clinical trial for an HIV vaccine back in the 90s. There were a lot of volunteers. Sadly the vaccine didn't work and all the subjects developed AIDS.

not anymore.
"good clinical practice" have evolved in recent years.
there are numerous issues and requirements that the human guinea pigs may not even be aware of.
rights and requirements have to be addressed and protected.
rights and requirements for and from the guinea pigs, the researchers, the corporations. the allied industries...
patents issues arising therein..
the list goes on.
OT.

[dr. d]

pansin ko may confusion re antibodies and vaccine

antibody products are not vaccines

monoclonal / polyclonal antibodies are not vaccines

they're antibodies made outside the human body and injected into humans to attack a specific target

they'll fade away after doing their job

--

vaccines are what makes your body make antibodies and the antibodies last for years

active vaccination/immunization versus passive vaccination/immunization.
it's in the medical textbooks.
second year medicine.
but i understand your concerns.

let me one-up the issue (i.e., murky it up a bit more. heh heh.).
majority of antibodies manufactured, are used in the diagnostic industry. the remainder are used in the therapeutic industry (e.g., passive immunization).

[bloowolf]

^^^

the company will not inject the horse plasma into humans

they will harvest the SARSCOV2 antibodies from the horse plasma

they are making an antibody products

i meant receiving the antibodies from horses is similar in principle to convalescent plasma therapy without the horse plasma

it's not a vaccine

they're not using horses as guinea pigs to test a vaccine which is what you said earlier

Ganun din yun, antibodies derived from horse plasma. Ang safest talaga is human derived, but any medical practitioner will still be prudent enough to test for reactions kasi meron pa rin nagrereact. You may have read it wrong. Horses can never be used as guinea pigs for it cause they are currently not affected by the covid. They are being studied to be used as one of the sources for plasma production, as I understood. Oh well, everything is still conjecture anyway.


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[bloowolf]

active vaccination/immunization versus passive vaccination/immunization.
it's in the medical textbooks.
but i understand your concerns.

I know what you mean doc. Active vaccination is using weakened virus or parts thereof to stimulate the subject to produce their own antibodies thus protecting themselves from developing the disease. Passive protection is supplying the unprotected subject with antibodies to enable him to fight the disease.


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[Yatta]

not anymore.
"good clinical practice" have evolved in recent years.
there are numerous issues and requirements that the human guinea pigs may not even be aware of.
rights and requirements have to be addressed and protected.
rights and requirements for and from the guinea pigs, the researchers, the corporations. the allied industries...
patents issues arising therein..
the list goes on.
OT.

OT:

I know, DOST gave our office a lecture on this. Basically you must explain everything to the subjects, and of course some committee will review and oversee it all.

[dr. d]

I know what you mean doc. Active vaccination is using weakened virus or parts thereof to stimulate the subject to produce their own antibodies thus protecting themselves from developing the disease. Passive protection is supplying the unprotected subject with antibodies to enable him to fight the disease.


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this is correct.

[heavenlee]

yes probably someone told du30 about SARSCOV2 antibodies from horses

the gov't has information the public isn't aware of

unless you're like uls who has nothing better to do...

a company called Emergent BioSolutions

https://investors.emergentbiosolutio...alue%5Bmin%5D=

So, our Beloved President is making national decisions now based on the "press release" of a biopharmaceutical company? What makes this company the cream of the crop from dozens of other companies in the race for a solution to the virus? He must have some vested interest (a silent investor, perhaps) -- to have such faith in the company that its "press releases" are taken as gospel truth of things to come, to the point of mentioning it and promoting it on national TV as fact to his captive audience.


"The chief executive earlier claimed that pharmaceutical giants had developed an antibody treatment for COVID-19 set to roll out in May and vowed to lift the Luzon-wide quarantine once they are delivered to the Philippines."

[uls]

horses aren't being used as guinea pigs to make a vaccine

horses are being used as a platform to make antibody products in commercial quantities

coz horses can yield more plasma than humans

more plasma more antibodies to harvest

[heavenlee]

Uls, it is not that simple. It is not as simple as harvesting the plasma & injecting it then ok na, the person will be cured. Horses & humans are very different. Mataas ang chances for reactions kaya dapat itest muna. Pero, like I said, desperate times. Malamang i fast track production & approval.


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According to that press release from Emergent -- they are gonna make two (2) types of plasma -- one derived from HUMANS and one derived from HORSES. Those derived from HORSES will be used only for severe, hospitalized patients. So they know there's a difference. All of this still in the clinical manufacturing and trial stages.



"COVID-HIG, manufactured from human plasma with antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, will be developed as a potential treatment for severe hospitalized patients as well as protection for at-risk individuals. In parallel, COVID-EIG, manufactured from plasma of immunized horses with antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, will be developed as a potential treatment for severe hospitalized patients. "

[bloowolf]

horses aren't being used as guinea pigs to make a vaccine

horses are being used as a platform to make antibody products in commercial quantities

coz horses can yield more plasma than humans

more plasma more antibodies to harvest

Yes, I think that has been stressed & understood.


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[heavenlee]

the company will not inject the horse plasma into humans

they will harvest the SARSCOV2 antibodies from the horse plasma

they are making antibody products

i meant receiving the antibodies from horses is similar in principle to convalescent plasma therapy without the horse plasma

it's not a vaccine

they're not using horses as guinea pigs to test a vaccine which is what you said earlier

According to that press release, sir, they intend to use HORSE plasma only on the sickest of the sick.

[uls]

So, our Beloved President is making national decisions now based on the "press release" of a biopharmaceutical company? What makes this company the cream of the crop from dozens of other companies in the race for a solution to the virus? He must have some vested interest (a silent investor, perhaps) -- to have such faith in the company that its "press releases" are taken as gospel truth of things to come, to the point of mentioning it and promoting it on national TV as fact to his captive audience.


"The chief executive earlier claimed that pharmaceutical giants had developed an antibody treatment for COVID-19 set to roll out in May and vowed to lift the Luzon-wide quarantine once they are delivered to the Philippines."

i'm sure he's being fed tons of info about experimental drugs, vaccines, etc

maybe he found that equine platform product interesting and wanted to share it

when you're a duterte hater to the core you're always gonna find something wrong

[bloowolf]

According to that press release from Emergent -- they are gonna make two (2) types of plasma -- one derived from HUMANS and one derived from HORSES. Those derived from HORSES will be used only for severe, hospitalized patients. So they know there's a difference. All of this still in the clinical manufacturing and trial stages.



"COVID-HIG, manufactured from human plasma with antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, will be developed as a potential treatment for severe hospitalized patients as well as protection for at-risk individuals. In parallel, COVID-EIG, manufactured from plasma of immunized horses with antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, will be developed as a potential treatment for severe hospitalized patients. "

Ok, this makes more sense, as HIG will be given right away when you test positive but either asymptomatic or symptomatic but EIG will be given only to symptomatics. EIG will most likely be less expensive.


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[uls]

According to that press release, sir, they intend to use HORSE plasma only on the sickest of the sick.

ok

maliit na bagay

at least i posted that link while everyone else was dismissing du30's horse antibody story as bs

[heavenlee]

i'm sure he's being fed tons of info about experimental drugs, vaccines, etc

maybe he have found that equine platform product interesting and wanted to share it

when you're a duterte hater to the core you're always gonna find something wrong

So press releases are equal to the truth now? You see nothing wrong with that? Only "haters" will find anything amiss?

Like Toyota's press releases are the truth about their cars, and only haters will find errors, while fanboys will parrot those news releases word for word like a zombie.

[uls]

^^

again, i'm the only one here who posted that link while everybody else said the horse antibody story is BS

i'm not going like that's the greatest thing ever

i only posted that coz everybody here didn't seem to know about it

i couldn't care less about the horse antibody

my money is on Gilead

[heavenlee]

ok

maliit na bagay

at least i posted that link while everyone else was dismissing du30's horse antibody story as bs

It is still BS until proven otherwise. The company is touting it out to the world because, you of all people, sir, know what a press release is for. Why else will they "release" such news in it's pre-clinical manufacturing an trial stages, if they're already confident that it's the "solution" and they've already have a winner in the bag?

Who was that guy who "press released" he could make cars that run from water? That's true? Or BS?

[heavenlee]

^^

again, i'm the only one here who posted that link while everybody else said the horse antibody story is BS

i'm not going like that's the greatest thing ever

i only posted that coz everybody here didn't seem to know about it

i couldn't care less about the horse antibody

my money is on Gilead

But that's besides the point. Point of mine is that our Beloved President took a press release as fact. He might as well also tell the public he's also waiting for that car that will run on water to come out by next month. All our gas problems solved.