Water/Alcohol injection Turbo Diesel use

[tuazon7]

dvldoc, really new on this WA injection, can you help me understand the need for the boost gauge and the boost controller? Isn't it that the boost is already being controlled by the engine ECU for factory installed turbocharged diesel engines? TIA.

[dvldoc]

dvldoc, really new on this WA injection, can you help me understand the need for the boost gauge and the boost controller? Isn't it that the boost is already being controlled by the engine ECU for factory installed turbocharged diesel engines? TIA.

You should always have a boost gauge if you modify any turbo diesel, You don't want it to overboost and blow a head gasket from high exhaust gas temps.

The reason for a boost controller is to dial in your own boost. This only works with cars who's boost is not controlled by the ECM which is most. Variable turbos and some CRDI systems don't let you adjust the boost like the Fortuner 3.0 D4D.

Say you have a stock 4M40 engine making 8psi of boost and you want a bit more power you use the manual boost controller to crank it up. Almost any turbo charged vehicle can handle 2-3psi over stock. Most vehicles you can manually adjust the boost pressure but you need a gauge to know where it's set at.

My stock boost on my Elgrand was 8psi I run 15psi with the dual injection system that I have on it, I'll run 20psi when I get my dump pipe done this year. And the more mods you do like a dump pipe and exhaust lets you run more boost.

But if you have a common rail system you can get it chipped, Not a option for people with mechanical injection and most gas engines that are turbo charged.

[14myXUV]

here are pics for tank.



Red is for spare methanol/water (for insurance). these are strapped for now. pump is pretty stable tho' w/o bracket. currently, it's footing is clipped with the matting; will add bracket soon.

wondering if there's any other interest here for my own planned stainless tank that can be stowed under the bench like the pic on the right. Doing so, frees us up the bench for passengers.

a group buy will give us a better deal. cost items: custom stainless tank, platic tank cap, float switch (essential). since i already have an existing setup, fittings that go with the stage 1 kit will be reused.

details gathered so far:
1. custom tank with 3 holes (for cap, hose-to-pump, float switch)
2. tank approx size: 20x7x5"; approx volume: 10liters.
3. internal baffling to prevent sloshing of liquid content
4. use stainless #304 -- forgot the thickness . not all stainless are the same and for planned use, this was the type recommended.
5. costing ranged from P3.5k to P7k; will make sure all is on apple-to-apple quote; at di pa ko tumawad.
6. target completion: July (float switch availability from DevilsOwn)

visited fabricators in Pasay, Commonwealth/QC, and one just across Berrima.

Comments, referrals most welcome.

[dvldoc]

7k seems pricey my 8 gallon tank cost me just over 5000P.



You could also go with something like our tanks



[IMG][/IMG]

Or a under the vehicle tank with a fill spout in the vehicle.

[nelany]

Doc where did you fabricate that stainless steel tank? Already cheap for an 8 gal capacity. The tank placement will be my problem for my crosswind where the 3rd seat is front facing. Unlike the Pajero the tank is inside the engine bay.

[nelany]

14myXUB, what is your boost setting to open up the pump? Yung punp mo ay hindi naka fix, instruction mo na sa Berrima yun? Hindi ba sila nag pa fabricate ng bracket? Yung sa FM ko lahat fabricated ng Speedlab before.

[dvldoc]

Doc where did you fabricate that stainless steel tank? Already cheap for an 8 gal capacity. The tank placement will be my problem for my crosswind where the 3rd seat is front facing. Unlike the Pajero the tank is inside the engine bay.

A shop in Angeles city down from Marquee mall, If you want his number fell free to PM me., He does a computer mock up of the tank you want per the dimensions,, Very good engineer.

[tuazon7]

You should always have a boost gauge if you modify any turbo diesel, You don't want it to overboost and blow a head gasket from high exhaust gas temps.

The reason for a boost controller is to dial in your own boost. This only works with cars who's boost is not controlled by the ECM which is most. Variable turbos and some CRDI systems don't let you adjust the boost like the Fortuner 3.0 D4D.

Say you have a stock 4M40 engine making 8psi of boost and you want a bit more power you use the manual boost controller to crank it up. Almost any turbo charged vehicle can handle 2-3psi over stock. Most vehicles you can manually adjust the boost pressure but you need a gauge to know where it's set at.

My stock boost on my Elgrand was 8psi I run 15psi with the dual injection system that I have on it, I'll run 20psi when I get my dump pipe done this year. And the more mods you do like a dump pipe and exhaust lets you run more boost.

But if you have a common rail system you can get it chipped, Not a option for people with mechanical injection and most gas engines that are turbo charged.

Thanks doc for the info. Additional questions though:
1. How would a WA system increase the engine boost?
2. What is the stock and max boost pressure for 4D56 CRDi Turbo intercooled?
3. IPA or Denatured alcohol will work as well? Worried on the toxicity of Methanol.
4. For the Stage 2 WA, will still need to get a boost gauge and boost controller? It does not come with the package?
5. Effects of running a low-level supply or empty WA system on the engine? on the WA system?


Thanks doc!

[dvldoc]

It increase boost by chemical intercooling, It simply makes the turbo more efficient by having lower outlet temps which makes more power. It also lets you burn off the wasted diesel which give you more power as well.

You should have a boost gauge on any turbo charged vehicle, the 4D56 can handle 20psi intercooled very easily, TO know what your maximum is your really going to need a exhaust gas temp gauge. Basically you boost it up to 620C/1150F and if you get temps any higher than that you back off until it's at this level.

Manual Boost controllers work you your engine. So you can manual adjust your boost, I would not go over 3psi stock until you get a EGT gauge.

You can use any alcohol you want, Methanol makes the most power Denatured is second.

For the kit you don't need anything but the kit, Gauges are optional for your own use. The kit shows what PSI it is activating at since it has a built in 30psi map sensor. Kit comes with everything you need to install it.

You can see how it acts here. This is in my Elgrand, I like to have gauges. I'm running denatured on this vid *15psi,


This is at 13psi I have a hard time with the van at low speeds because it spins the tires when i get on hard and steps out to the side. You can see the 0-100 on mine at the 2:10 minute mark.


If your kit runs out of fluid your car just goes back to normal, You will just loose the extra power and the pump can be ran dry with no damage.

I also use LPG injection as well which gave it a big boost in power over what you see here.

[tuazon7]

It increase boost by chemical intercooling, It simply makes the turbo more efficient by having lower outlet temps which makes more power. It also lets you burn off the wasted diesel which give you more power as well.

You should have a boost gauge on any turbo charged vehicle, the 4D56 can handle 20psi intercooled very easily, TO know what your maximum is your really going to need a exhaust gas temp gauge. Basically you boost it up to 620C/1150F and if you get temps any higher than that you back off until it's at this level.

Manual Boost controllers work you your engine. So you can manual adjust your boost, I would not go over 3psi stock until you get a EGT gauge.

You can use any alcohol you want, Methanol makes the most power Denatured is second.

For the kit you don't need anything but the kit, Gauges are optional for your own use. The kit shows what PSI it is activating at since it has a built in 30psi map sensor. Kit comes with everything you need to install it.

You can see how it acts here. This is in my Elgrand, I like to have gauges. I'm running denatured on this vid *15psi,


This is at 13psi I have a hard time with the van at low speeds because it spins the tires when i get on hard and steps out to the side. You can see the 0-100 on mine at the 2:10 minute mark.


If your kit runs out of fluid your car just goes back to normal, You will just loose the extra power and the pump can be ran dry with no damage.

I also use LPG injection as well which gave it a big boost in power over what you see here.

Really appreciate the information doc!

Ask the question on the safety on running an empty WA tank, as read from the AEM site on the possible engine damage that is why they have this WA failsafe device (marketing gimmick?). just to further feed my mind, how exactly does a boost controller work? I mean, is it use to set the maximum allowable boost?

for the stage2 kit doc, once installed, there is no longer a need for me to worry on the boost level? the boost gauge add-on will just be purely for me to see the level right? TIA.

[dvldoc]

Really appreciate the information doc!

Ask the question on the safety on running an empty WA tank, as read from the AEM site on the possible engine damage that is why they have this WA failsafe device (marketing gimmick?). just to further feed my mind, how exactly does a boost controller work? I mean, is it use to set the maximum allowable boost?

for the stage2 kit doc, once installed, there is no longer a need for me to worry on the boost level? the boost gauge add-on will just be purely for me to see the level right? TIA.

That statement of engine damage only applies to if you tuned your vehicle to be dependent on the W/A, for example your running a level of boost and timing your fuel system cannot support with out it. The failsafes are good ideal in theory but it only takes millisecond of sever detonation to wreck your engine. None of them have actually tested it in the condition it's set up to protect you from. What if your failsafe has a failure? like a loose ground or power wire, your pretty much porked at that point.

We never recommend you tune your vehicle to the point it cannot run without the water injection. So having the failsafe is none issue. Our controller does detect low fluid level and will warn you when using the liquid level sensor.

And if your not adjusting the stock boost you don't really need to get a boost gauge, your only going to see around 2psi to 4psi over stock depending on nozzle size and that's just free boost.

[14myXUV]

14myXUB, what is your boost setting to open up the pump? Yung punp mo ay hindi naka fix, instruction mo na sa Berrima yun? Hindi ba sila nag pa fabricate ng bracket? Yung sa FM ko lahat fabricated ng Speedlab before.

setting is now at 3-4psi (lower than recommended 6 which the top boost on stock turbo); very much still on testing stage.

Berrima offered bracket kaya lang di pa ko ready with my stainless (or any other permanent tank solution). So will have to wait pa.

[14myXUV]

Doc,

RE TANK

I thought I saw these cool-looking tanks in Berrima. Will try them out on my next visit to check if they fit anywhere w/ least footprint. They may be more cost-effective solution too.

Indeed 7k is prohibitive for me.

[dvldoc]

There's many tank options out there, you just got to look around. Get your measurements and hit the surplus places, You might find a hydraulic fluid tank or a 2.5 gallon plastic Jerry can. You can also turn a 5 gallon Jerry on it's side and mount a bulkhead fitting for a filler cap.

7k is way to much for a tank. But sometime you will have to sacrifice storage for performance and engine life.

Be sure to change your oil at around 2000klm because all the carbon will have been cleaned out of your internals.

[nelany]

Berrima has just completed the stage 2 installation and they also tuned my engine after the installation. The max boost that my gauge register is now 12 psi. The initial one is just 3-4 psi. A big jump in its boost is after the engine tuning plus an increase due to devilsown installation. No black smoke even on the red line. A happy Berrima customer.

[dvldoc]

Hopefully you can post your dyno sheet.

[tuazon7]

That statement of engine damage only applies to if you tuned your vehicle to be dependent on the W/A, for example your running a level of boost and timing your fuel system cannot support with out it. The failsafes are good ideal in theory but it only takes millisecond of sever detonation to wreck your engine. None of them have actually tested it in the condition it's set up to protect you from. What if your failsafe has a failure? like a loose ground or power wire, your pretty much porked at that point.

We never recommend you tune your vehicle to the point it cannot run without the water injection. So having the failsafe is none issue. Our controller does detect low fluid level and will warn you when using the liquid level sensor.

And if your not adjusting the stock boost you don't really need to get a boost gauge, your only going to see around 2psi to 4psi over stock depending on nozzle size and that's just free boost.

dvldoc, thanks as always. One more thing, is it just okay to have the contoller, pump and the container installed in the engine bay, if it will fit? TIA.

[dvldoc]

The controller is not meant to go in the engine bay, it needs to be in the car, plus how would you adjust the setting on the fly. It's not designed for a high heat environment like the engine bay. The pressure switch however which is brass can be mounted in the engine bay.

[14myXUV]

Berrima has just completed the stage 2 installation and they also tuned my engine after the installation. The max boost that my gauge register is now 12 psi. The initial one is just 3-4 psi. A big jump in its boost is after the engine tuning plus an increase due to devilsown installation. No black smoke even on the red line. A happy Berrima customer.

CONGRATULATIONS. Happy and Safe driving.

[14myXUV]

...

Be sure to change your oil at around 2000klm because all the carbon will have been cleaned out of your internals.

i may not be able to log in 2k until my upcoming long trip. Hope it's okay to change oil at 1000km or so run with alcohol-injection.