Diesel Fuel Injection System Help Desk

[RustyXIII]

I stumbled upon some threads about alcohol/water injection. Aside from the additional power, what got me interested the most was the ability of the alcohol/water spray to clean the intake manifold, valves, and the combustion chamber itself.

I was wondering, can I spray an alcohol/water mix directly into the intake and get the same cleaning effect?

I'm thinking that this could be better than hosing down the tailpipe come emissions time.

[duskylim]

Dear Sir:

I actually have a Devil's Own Water-Methanol System installed on my Mazda B2500, naturally-aspirated (no turbo) diesel pickup.

The regular system is controlled by a pressure switch which turns on the water/meth pump to FULL Delivery when a pre-set turbo-charger boost pressure level has been reached.

In my vehicle (that doesn't have a turbo), I installed a MAF (mass air flow) sensor from an Ford F-150 pickup to supply the correct signal (0 - 5v DC) for a computer control that can vary the speed of the water/meth pump with engine airflow.

I bought and installed it myself after taking several test drives with Bilal (DevilDoc) at the product demo and introduction in Clark, Pampanga - that's where I met Ramon (Budoy) from Central Diesel.

He's (Ramon) a pioneer in the use of water/meth injection on his blue Isuzu Trooper - but his is a more conventional installation on his turbo-diesel unit.

The local dealer is Speedlab (across from Pegasus!!!) along Quezon Blvd - not far from Central Diesel - look for Fernan Lao.

My system cost me about Php 25,000 all in all with the pump, lines, connectors, nozzles, computer control and MAF sensor, etc.

I use a small 2 liter plastic tank (originally containing soybean oil) for my water-methanol - thats good for about 1 hour of high-speed running on the highway and 2 hours in the city.

I've been using it for about 2 years now.

I've found that with natural aspiration, you have to use more than a 50/50 water/meth mix - in fact you have to use very high methanol concentrations to get good results.

You also have to use very small nozzles or the engine chokes.

When its working right, it will allow for better and stronger acceleration, and stronger top-end.

It definitely gives more power all across the power band. That extra power is not dramatic, like a turbo, but it definitely has an effect especially during passing maneuvers on the highway.

Of course I had to undertake several other significant modifications to get it to work just right.

I use it everyday, most especially when going out-of-town. Note that the settings for city use and highway use are different, so you have to change over for the best performance.

An added bonus is that water/meth injection not only adds power but improves the fuel economy - on and off highway.

Right now I have to replace many of the connectors which are leaking, clean out the pump and replace/renew the seals as well as clean the nozzle which got plugged with dirt.

All of that cost me about Php 1000 (not including my own labor).

If you were to ask me now that I have a lot of experience I would say that it's worth it - IF you have tuning skills and patience to fully exploit and develop it's potential.

That's a pretty big IF, otherwise stick to the simple turbo version.

Oh yes - the cleaning thing - its not so dramatic on my system as I use very small nozzles and the MAF and computer control makes of a progressive delivery - reducing the cleaning effect.

That said, the engine is crisper and smoother AFTER using the system and there is NO smoke or particulate emission to speak of when it's on - during my emissions test, the guys tested it 3 times kasi super-baba ng opacity reading.

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

[RustyXIII]

* duskylim thank you for the very thorough response and I am now convinced that as far as power,convenience-cost ratios are concerned, nothing beats alcohol/water injection.

However, what I'm asking about is the feasibility - or stupidity, whatever the case may be - of spraying water/alcohol mixture into an open intake manifold of a running diesel engine. What I'm only after is the cleaning effect that water/alcohol injection produces as I only have an N/A diesel.

To elaborate further, I plan on using a sprayer (hand-operated, like those used to spray insecticide) to spray the mixture into the open (intake tube removed) intake manifold as an accomplice guns the throttle. Will the hand sprayer provide a fine enough mist to avoid hydrolock or am I going to blow my engine - probably including myself - apart attempting this?

[duskylim]

Dear Rusty:

I will reply to you on another thread that I will open specifically for water-methanol injection.

It is unfair for me to hi-jack Dieseldude's thread (which is intended to assist the general public) with another issue that is definitely off topic.

Sincerely,

Dusky Lim

P.S. - Apologies to Dieseldude and Co.

[RustyXIII]

Dear Rusty:
It is unfair for me to hi-jack Dieseldude's thread (which is intended to assist the general public) with another issue that is definitely off topic.

Sincerely,

Dusky Lim

P.S. - Apologies to Dieseldude and Co.

That never occured to me. Thank you for pointing it out. My apologies also to those concerned. I will look forward to your response sir.

[Dieseldude]

Hello Dusky/Rusty,

This is no problem and there is no need to apologize.
Your posts were great and very informative.
I just don't have much experience on alcohol injection.


Cheers,

Dieseldude

[way22]

Hello sa mga diesel guru, i would like to ask your opinions and advise. I have a Carnival 2.9TDI, one time I noticed a leak sa injection pump so I bring it to casa kc I am afraid it might be difficult to dismantle from the engine so better to bring it to casa. The service adviser told me na for repair yon injection pump and calibration. After more than a week, I was able to get my car back. But initially, I noticed na yon starting power from idle di kanyan ka lakas and when running may slightly louder sound (not as smooth as before the repair) coming from injection pump. I used it for two days and decided to bring the car back kc I cannot stand of the lack of power specially sa arangkada or over take. Not even a tricycle I have hard time of overtake. Now it's already two weeks sa casa and I don't know what is happening and what is really the problem. Ano sa palagay nyo ano talaga ang problema? Di maayos ang calibration ng injection pump or timing problem? Please help. Thank you.

[Dieseldude]

I would like to ask your opinions and advise. I have a Carnival 2.9TDI, one time I noticed a leak sa injection pump so I bring it to casa kc I am afraid it might be difficult to dismantle from the engine so better to bring it to casa. The service adviser told me na for repair yon injection pump and calibration. After more than a week, I was able to get my car back. But initially, I noticed na yon starting power from idle di kanyan ka lakas and when running may slightly louder sound (not as smooth as before the repair) coming from injection pump. Timing may be too advanced.

I used it for two days and decided to bring the car back kc I cannot stand of the lack of power specially sa arangkada or over take. Dapat lang naman mag claim ka ng warranty. Maayos ba ang acceleration bago ginawa ng casa?

Not even a tricycle I have hard time of overtake. Bago ba ang air at fuel filters mo?

Now it's already two weeks sa casa and I don't know what is happening and what is really the problem. Ano sa palagay nyo ano talaga ang problema? Di maayos ang calibration ng injection pump or timing problem? Hindi natin alam yan. Pero parang tama ang mga hinala mo. Kinalibrate din ba ang injectors mo?

Please help. Thank you.

[chilledoxygen]

Diesel Experts, Good day.

Super mausok na po yung pajero fieldmaster 4m40 ko. Hindi naman po sha hard starting pag umaga. Ok naman sha with its acceleration. Pinakalibrate ko na lahat ng injectors ko, nothing happened. Pag naka idle, hindi naman sha umuusok. Pero pag binigla mo apak ang accelerator. Yun super usok na. Maitim yung usok.

What should be the main problem? It it my injection pump? Or it should be my turbo? I need your big help. Thanks

[chilledoxygen]

Hi Sir Dieseldue.

Do you still have the Pajero's idle and idle-up setting procedure? I cannot download the attachment from this thread on page 12. Can you send it to my email? shinnuker*yahoo.com. Thanks.

My system is idling problem is weird kc, when I turn on the aircon. My rpm decreases. It should increase when I turn on the aircon, right? thanks =)

[Dieseldude]

Diesel Experts, Good day.

Super mausok na po yung pajero fieldmaster 4m40 ko. Hindi naman po sha hard starting pag umaga. Ok naman sha with its acceleration. Pinakalibrate ko na lahat ng injectors ko, nothing happened. Pag naka idle, hindi naman sha umuusok. Pero pag binigla mo apak ang accelerator. Yun super usok na. Maitim yung usok.

What should be the main problem? It it my injection pump? Or it should be my turbo? I need your big help. Thanks

Try mo muna air filter, then turbo, then injection pump.
A simple way to check turbo: Floor your accelerator pedal; turbo is basically okay if the air hoses swell......you have boost pressure.
Finally, have your injection pump checked.

[Dieseldude]

Hi Sir Dieseldue.

Do you still have the Pajero's idle and idle-up setting procedure? I cannot download the attachment from this thread on page 12. Can you send it to my email? shinnuker*yahoo.com. Thanks.

My system is idling problem is weird kc, when I turn on the aircon. My rpm decreases. It should increase when I turn on the aircon, right? thanks =)

I don't have it at the moment........will try to look for it.

Basically, you have to check 3 things:

1. Mechanical adjustment of the idle-up lever on the injection pump. It should pull the IP lever to increase idle when the AC compressor turns on.
   
2. Disconnected or damaged vacuum hoses
3. No 12v power to the idle-up solenoid.
   

[alrorskyz]

Hi to all diesel guru,

I need your advice. My ride is JDM pajero w/ turbo 4d56 and AT tranny. Bagong change oil, air filter and fuel filter last month lang. Bakit kapag bagong andar at hindi pa mainit ang engine ko very low ang rpm ko then pag mainit na nasa 900 then kung naka aircon naman nasa 1000.
Hindi ko mapatakbo kung malamig pa ang sasakyan dahil sobrang manginginig. Hindi naman siya hard starting just one click lang start na agad and hindi
rin mausok kahit biglan apak sa pedal.
Ano kaya ang problem nito?

[DonPempe]

Hi Sir Dieseldude

My problem is nag po power loss ung sasakyan ko unti unti decrease nya ng rpm hangang mamatay engine kung hindi ako mag accelerate mamatay engine(when idle)(Ano kaya ang posibleng reason?)i have checked replace fuel filter(baka barado na) checked the fuel line ok naman wala rin bara(nag palit din ako fuel hose)(I read from previous post same problem with mine kahit rekta na namamatay bigla engine) ..and also I have the same problem with the recent post bumaba din ang idle ko pag on ko ng Aircon.(Is there a connection with the first problem?)

Pina chek ko sa kilalang mechanic sabi calibration na daw dapat baka daw may problem na sa rotary pump ng Injection Pump is it possible? (Baka daw kasi)also please do send me a copy of Pajero's idle and idle-up setting procedure. my email is yeye6a*yahoo.com.Thank you

[Dieseldude]

Hi to all diesel guru,

I need your advice. My ride is JDM pajero w/ turbo 4d56 and AT tranny. Bagong change oil, air filter and fuel filter last month lang. Nag simula ba ang problem pagkatapos ng change oil and filters? Ano ang oil grade na ginamit mo? Meron pa bang ibang ginalaw sa engine mo?

Bakit kapag bagong andar at hindi pa mainit ang engine ko very low ang rpm ko then pag mainit na nasa 900 then kung naka aircon naman nasa 1000.

Hindi ko mapatakbo kung malamig pa ang sasakyan dahil sobrang manginginig. Bakit di mo mapatakbo, wala bang power kung malamig? Do you experience white smoke when cold?

Hindi naman siya hard starting just one click lang start na agad and hindi
rin mausok kahit biglan apak sa pedal. Dapat meron konting usok sa biglang tapak ng acc pedal. Meron bang power pag mainit na ang engine o kulang pa rin?

Ano kaya ang problem nito?

[Dieseldude]

Hi Sir Dieseldude

My problem is nag po power loss ung sasakyan ko unti unti decrease nya ng rpm hangang mamatay engine kung hindi ako mag accelerate mamatay engine(when idle)(Ano kaya ang posibleng reason?)i have checked replace fuel filter(baka barado na) checked the fuel line ok naman wala rin bara(nag palit din ako fuel hose)(I read from previous post same problem with mine kahit rekta na namamatay bigla engine) Subukan mo mag adjust/increase ng idle speed.

..and also I have the same problem with the recent post bumaba din ang idle ko pag on ko ng Aircon.(Is there a connection with the first problem?) This is possible...

Pina chek ko sa kilalang mechanic sabi calibration na daw dapat baka daw may problem na sa rotary pump ng Injection Pump is it possible? (Baka daw kasi) This is also possible....

also please do send me a copy of Pajero's idle and idle-up setting procedure. my email is yeye6a*yahoo.com.Thank you
Sorry, wala na akong copy ng ganitong procedure. Search mo sa previous posts, baka makita mo. Calling Rion......

[alrorskyz]

Hi to all diesel guru,

I need your advice. My ride is JDM pajero w/ turbo 4d56 and AT tranny. Bagong change oil, air filter and fuel filter last month lang. Nag simula ba ang problem pagkatapos ng change oil and filters? Hindi ko sure kailan nagsimula kasi si misis ang laging gumagamit nito, abroad kasi ako nagwork. Ano ang oil grade na ginamit mo? petron trekker 15w-40 Meron pa bang ibang ginalaw sa engine mo? wala po.

Bakit kapag bagong andar at hindi pa mainit ang engine ko very low ang rpm ko then pag mainit na nasa 900 then kung naka aircon naman nasa 1000.

Hindi ko mapatakbo kung malamig pa ang sasakyan dahil sobrang manginginig. Bakit di mo mapatakbo, wala bang power kung malamig? meron naman power but automatic kasi kung tapakan mo ang brake na malamig pa ang engine and naka drive sobrang manginginig ang engine. kailangan i-preheat ko muna for 2-4 mins para maganda na ang takbo. Do you experience white smoke when cold? wala naman white smoke sir.

Hindi naman siya hard starting just one click lang start na agad and hindi
rin mausok kahit biglan apak sa pedal. Dapat meron konting usok sa biglang tapak ng acc pedal. Meron bang power pag mainit na ang engine o kulang pa rin? wala naman ako problem sa power nito sir. ang problem ko lang ay sobrang low rpm basta malamig pa ang engine. i think mas mababa pa sa 750 rpm.
pinaadjust ko sa taga petron ang idle ko kaya nagiging 900 na but ganun parin kung malamig ang engine very low rpm parin.

thank you for your reply sir

Ano kaya ang problem nito?

[pleck]

bago lang ako sa diesel engine kakabili ko lang ng l400 ko local space gear pag kuha ko after 2-3 days sa akin change oil na ako, change oil filter , fuel filter, air filter lininis lang. then after 2 days nag salin ako ng oil ( may leak kase sa crankshaft oil seal ) pag open ko ng oil filter cap ko may usok so kinabahan agad ako hinugod ko agad dipstick wala pa naman usok dun at walang talsik ng oil after a week byahe ako makati pag check ko ng dipstick ko (hinugot ko ng konti ) may usok na din at talsik ng oil na pa konti konti

kanina nag pa compression test ako sabi ng mekaniko ok pa naman daw

ano kaya cause nitong usok sa dipstick at oil cap?

4D56T engine SPACEGEAR LOCAL max speed niya 80kph pwede pa pigain pero hirap na hirap

hindi ko na alam san ko dadalhin to at saan ipapagawa

btw one click pa din po space gear ko at no overheat hindi rin nag babawas ng langis sa oil not sure minsan ko lang kase gamitin

[DonPempe]

Hi Sir Dieseldude

My problem is nag po power loss ung sasakyan ko unti unti decrease nya ng rpm hangang mamatay engine kung hindi ako mag accelerate mamatay engine(when idle)(Ano kaya ang posibleng reason?)i have checked replace fuel filter(baka barado na) checked the fuel line ok naman wala rin bara(nag palit din ako fuel hose)(I read from previous post same problem with mine kahit rekta na namamatay bigla engine) Subukan mo mag adjust/increase ng idle speed.

..and also I have the same problem with the recent post bumaba din ang idle ko pag on ko ng Aircon.(Is there a connection with the first problem?) This is possible...

Pina chek ko sa kilalang mechanic sabi calibration na daw dapat baka daw may problem na sa rotary pump ng Injection Pump is it possible? (Baka daw kasi) This is also possible....

also please do send me a copy of Pajero's idle and idle-up setting procedure. my email is yeye6a*yahoo.com.Thank you
Sorry, wala na akong copy ng ganitong procedure. Search mo sa previous posts, baka makita mo. Calling Rion......

Thank you Sir Dieseldude for the quick reply.. Dapat calibration na in case nde mag bago kung ni adjust ko n ung idling nya?

[chilledoxygen]

Thank you for the advice sir Dieseldude. I will check my parts as soon as possilbe.