Diesel Fuel Injection System Help Desk

**RustyXIII** · June 22nd, 2010 02:32 PM

I stumbled upon some threads about alcohol/water injection. Aside from the additional power, what got me interested the most was the ability of the alcohol/water spray to clean the intake manifold, valves, and the combustion chamber itself.

I was wondering, can I spray an alcohol/water mix directly into the intake and get the same cleaning effect?

I'm thinking that this could be better than hosing down the tailpipe come emissions time.

**duskylim** · June 22nd, 2010 06:49 PM

Dear Sir:

I actually have a Devil's Own Water-Methanol System installed on my Mazda B2500, naturally-aspirated (no turbo) diesel pickup.

The regular system is controlled by a pressure switch which turns on the water/meth pump to FULL Delivery when a pre-set turbo-charger boost pressure level has been reached.

In my vehicle (that doesn't have a turbo), I installed a MAF (mass air flow) sensor from an Ford F-150 pickup to supply the correct signal (0 - 5v DC) for a computer control that can vary the speed of the water/meth pump with engine airflow.

I bought and installed it myself after taking several test drives with Bilal (DevilDoc) at the product demo and introduction in Clark, Pampanga - that's where I met Ramon (Budoy) from Central Diesel.

He's (Ramon) a pioneer in the use of water/meth injection on his blue Isuzu Trooper - but his is a more conventional installation on his turbo-diesel unit.

The local dealer is Speedlab (across from Pegasus!!!) along Quezon Blvd - not far from Central Diesel - look for Fernan Lao.

My system cost me about Php 25,000 all in all with the pump, lines, connectors, nozzles, computer control and MAF sensor, etc.

I use a small 2 liter plastic tank (originally containing soybean oil) for my water-methanol - thats good for about 1 hour of high-speed running on the highway and 2 hours in the city.

I've been using it for about 2 years now.

I've found that with natural aspiration, you have to use more than a 50/50 water/meth mix - in fact you have to use very high methanol concentrations to get good results.

You also have to use very small nozzles or the engine chokes.

When its working right, it will allow for better and stronger acceleration, and stronger top-end.

It definitely gives more power all across the power band. That extra power is not dramatic, like a turbo, but it definitely has an effect especially during passing maneuvers on the highway.

Of course I had to undertake several other significant modifications to get it to work just right.

I use it everyday, most especially when going out-of-town. Note that the settings for city use and highway use are different, so you have to change over for the best performance.

An added bonus is that water/meth injection not only adds power but improves the fuel economy - on and off highway.

Right now I have to replace many of the connectors which are leaking, clean out the pump and replace/renew the seals as well as clean the nozzle which got plugged with dirt.

All of that cost me about Php 1000 (not including my own labor).

If you were to ask me now that I have a lot of experience I would say that it's worth it - IF you have tuning skills and patience to fully exploit and develop it's potential.

That's a pretty big IF, otherwise stick to the simple turbo version.

Oh yes - the cleaning thing - its not so dramatic on my system as I use very small nozzles and the MAF and computer control makes of a progressive delivery - reducing the cleaning effect.

That said, the engine is crisper and smoother AFTER using the system and there is NO smoke or particulate emission to speak of when it's on - during my emissions test, the guys tested it 3 times kasi super-baba ng opacity reading.

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

**RustyXIII** · July 6th, 2010 09:11 AM

* duskylim thank you for the very thorough response and I am now convinced that as far as power,convenience-cost ratios are concerned, nothing beats alcohol/water injection.

However, what I'm asking about is the feasibility - or stupidity, whatever the case may be - of spraying water/alcohol mixture into an open intake manifold of a running diesel engine. What I'm only after is the cleaning effect that water/alcohol injection produces as I only have an N/A diesel.

To elaborate further, I plan on using a sprayer (hand-operated, like those used to spray insecticide) to spray the mixture into the open (intake tube removed) intake manifold as an accomplice guns the throttle. Will the hand sprayer provide a fine enough mist to avoid hydrolock or am I going to blow my engine - probably including myself - apart attempting this?

**duskylim** · July 6th, 2010 10:18 AM

Dear Rusty:

I will reply to you on another thread that I will open specifically for water-methanol injection.

It is unfair for me to hi-jack Dieseldude's thread (which is intended to assist the general public) with another issue that is definitely off topic.

Sincerely,

Dusky Lim

P.S. - Apologies to Dieseldude and Co.

**RustyXIII** · July 6th, 2010 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by duskylim

Dear Rusty:
It is unfair for me to hi-jack Dieseldude's thread (which is intended to assist the general public) with another issue that is definitely off topic.

Sincerely,

Dusky Lim

P.S. - Apologies to Dieseldude and Co.

That never occured to me. Thank you for pointing it out. My apologies also to those concerned. I will look forward to your response sir.

**Dieseldude** · July 8th, 2010 08:33 AM

Hello Dusky/Rusty,

This is no problem and there is no need to apologize.
Your posts were great and very informative.
I just don't have much experience on alcohol injection.

Cheers,

Dieseldude

**way22** · July 19th, 2010 12:29 PM

Hello sa mga diesel guru, i would like to ask your opinions and advise. I have a Carnival 2.9TDI, one time I noticed a leak sa injection pump so I bring it to casa kc I am afraid it might be difficult to dismantle from the engine so better to bring it to casa. The service adviser told me na for repair yon injection pump and calibration. After more than a week, I was able to get my car back. But initially, I noticed na yon starting power from idle di kanyan ka lakas and when running may slightly louder sound (not as smooth as before the repair) coming from injection pump. I used it for two days and decided to bring the car back kc I cannot stand of the lack of power specially sa arangkada or over take. Not even a tricycle I have hard time of overtake. Now it's already two weeks sa casa and I don't know what is happening and what is really the problem. Ano sa palagay nyo ano talaga ang problema? Di maayos ang calibration ng injection pump or timing problem? Please help. Thank you.

**Dieseldude** · July 19th, 2010 09:07 PM

I would like to ask your opinions and advise. I have a Carnival 2.9TDI, one time I noticed a leak sa injection pump so I bring it to casa kc I am afraid it might be difficult to dismantle from the engine so better to bring it to casa. The service adviser told me na for repair yon injection pump and calibration. After more than a week, I was able to get my car back. But initially, I noticed na yon starting power from idle di kanyan ka lakas and when running may slightly louder sound (not as smooth as before the repair) coming from injection pump. Timing may be too advanced.

I used it for two days and decided to bring the car back kc I cannot stand of the lack of power specially sa arangkada or over take. Dapat lang naman mag claim ka ng warranty. Maayos ba ang acceleration bago ginawa ng casa?

Not even a tricycle I have hard time of overtake. Bago ba ang air at fuel filters mo?

Now it's already two weeks sa casa and I don't know what is happening and what is really the problem. Ano sa palagay nyo ano talaga ang problema? Di maayos ang calibration ng injection pump or timing problem? Hindi natin alam yan. Pero parang tama ang mga hinala mo. Kinalibrate din ba ang injectors mo?

Please help. Thank you.

**chilledoxygen** · July 19th, 2010 10:53 PM

Diesel Experts, Good day.

Super mausok na po yung pajero fieldmaster 4m40 ko. Hindi naman po sha hard starting pag umaga. Ok naman sha with its acceleration. Pinakalibrate ko na lahat ng injectors ko, nothing happened. Pag naka idle, hindi naman sha umuusok. Pero pag binigla mo apak ang accelerator. Yun super usok na. Maitim yung usok.

What should be the main problem? It it my injection pump? Or it should be my turbo? I need your big help. Thanks

**chilledoxygen** · July 19th, 2010 11:38 PM

Hi Sir Dieseldue.

Do you still have the Pajero's idle and idle-up setting procedure? I cannot download the attachment from this thread on page 12. Can you send it to my email? shinnuker*yahoo.com. Thanks.

My system is idling problem is weird kc, when I turn on the aircon. My rpm decreases. It should increase when I turn on the aircon, right? thanks =)