E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[OldSchoolHack]

Naduling ako ng ipinagmalaki pa ni GMA ang Bio-fuel law.

Sana binigyan din tayo ng tax relief (yung sa fees na binabayaran natin pag rehistro. lagyan ng relief or something) sa registration kasi bio-fuel damages our cars.

Ok lang sa mga bagong oto. Pero sa '90s and older model mararandaman ninyo ang effect after a while.

*CVT. Sabi sa RA pag na apektohan yung local demand dahil sa increased ethanol demand for gasoline e pwede naman mag import. Masyadong open ended din ang batas dito. Plus me review din ang DOST sa effect ng ethanol (also in the RA Biofuel Law). Actually di na kailangan ang DOST. Apektado na agad lumang oto after a while.

Pati ata aviation fuel gagawing me ethanol!!!! omg

[1D4LV]

Naduling ako ng ipinagmalaki pa ni GMA ang Bio-fuel law.

Sana binigyan din tayo ng tax relief (yung sa fees na binabayaran natin pag rehistro. lagyan ng relief or something) sa registration kasi bio-fuel damages our cars.

Ok lang sa mga bagong oto. Pero sa '90s and older model mararandaman ninyo ang effect after a while.

*CVT. Sabi sa RA pag na apektohan yung local demand dahil sa increased ethanol demand for gasoline e pwede naman mag import. Masyadong open ended din ang batas dito. Plus me review din ang DOST sa effect ng ethanol (also in the RA Biofuel Law). Actually di na kailangan ang DOST. Apektado na agad lumang oto after a while.

Pati ata aviation fuel gagawing me ethanol!!!! omg

aviation fuel is exempted from the clean air act so it is exempted dun sa implementation ng ethanol or biofuels.

[OldSchoolHack]

^^^ The law states otherwise. Please read the RA 9367. There is no exemption stated there.

In fact ---
Section 9:On the powers of the NBB (National Biofuel Board) and Item e) -

"Recommend to DOE the use of bio-fuel blends in AIR TRANSPORT taking into account safety and technical viablity."


While it is not an absolute implementation on aviation fuel, it is open ended where the NBB may recommend the use. This does not mean aviation fuel will be regulated to have bio-fuel but rather if the NBB issues an IRR on the implementation, then aviation fuel will have ethanol depending on the IRR they issue.

Unless repealed na ang Biofuel law.

[highway_stud]

I guess there are two SeaOil branches in Marikina, one is along JP Rizal in Greenheights, Nangka and the other is in the boundary of Concepcion and Parang (Paraluman St). So does both stations sell the same price?

Usually if same area, hindi nagkakapalayo ng price 'yan.

Value for money talaga ang E97, while other gasoline brands lessen their RON, Seoil makes it 97 for an affordable price. And these other brands don't come cheap. I think good worth for money ang ginagawa ng Seaoil.

[ntend2b]

Even me, I'm wondering kung meron nga dn in some other places eh, ganda nya humatak, it would really drives your car to its full performance.

[skipper]

Seaoil's E10 blended-fuel works well for me, kasi high rated naman ang octane nya which is 97. It actually feels better with blaze and v-power in terms of hatak. And with E10 you don't have to worry about additive residues on your car parts since it burns clean. E10 is also a good engine booster.

For those who were asking where seaoil stations are located, here's the link to the list of stations: http://www.extreme97.com.ph/index.ph...reme97Stations.

Thanks!

[p_borj]

ang nakakatakot dito guys eh yung lifespan ng engines natin. as of now hindi natin mararamdaman ang epekto nito dahil bago pa lang ito, pero paano 5 years from now?

at ito ang pinakamahalaga, 100% sure ba tayo na ang ethanol na halo sa gasolina natin eh 10% lang? paano kung nasa 20% pala diba, hindi naman natin nalalaman?

nagpakarga ako ng Caltex Silver, ethanol blended na rin pala ito, proud pa ako sa Caltex Silver dati dahil hiwalay ang E10 nila "dati" eh ngayon Flying V muna ako (nakahiwalay pa rin "as of now" ang unleaded nila (san juan branch)).

ayun, parang nag evaporize lang hehe, haay naku ethanol..

[highway_stud]

Marami na 'yatang ok with e10 now. Syempre naman, biodiesel na tayo in 2010. Dapat ng sanayin ang sasakyan.

[Haruto]

isn't E10 = Ethanol mixture?

I don't believe engines could become "sanay" in E10 if they are older models. E10 or Ethanol mixed gas could end up destroying older engine's seals etc. I've asked Nissan Casa about this too and they told me that all engine types 2002 below are not suitable for the said ethanol mixed gas.

what do you mean po ng engine booster yung e10? just curious...

Seaoil's gases are okay naman. i've been using it for a while and i think its okay naman.

[highway_stud]

^Yup, e10 is 10% ethanol.

Provided that all parts are genuine, 1990 models can still run on Extreme 97, imo. 'Sanay' is just something people use for the lack of a better term since e10 is mandated for utilization come 2010.

With regards to booster, ethanol acts as booster to replace harmful additives usually found in ordinary gasoline.

Thanks!

[james00112233]

buti na lang yung caltex at petron hindi pa e10 mga gas nila (among the big 3). pero yung shell kahit saan ako magpunta e10 na silang lahat.....
hindi ko pa nasusubukan magpa-gas sa mga small players..

[Wh1stl3r]

buti na lang yung caltex at petron hindi pa e10 mga gas nila (among the big 3). pero yung shell kahit saan ako magpunta e10 na silang lahat.....
hindi ko pa nasusubukan magpa-gas sa mga small players..

I beg to differ. The lowest octane gas of Caltex and Petron are E10 already. Take a good look at those small stickers stuck to the pump. Is it just me or do these E10 fuels make the engine shudder more?

[ghosthunter]

I beg to differ. The lowest octane gas of Caltex and Petron are E10 already. Take a good look at those small stickers stuck to the pump. Is it just me or do these E10 fuels make the engine shudder more?

From the experience of other users, it seems it's the E10 gasoline that is at fault.

[CVT]

This is disturbing.....

from:
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquire...-enginesPetron

Ethanol gas can damage car engines—Petron

By Amy R. Remo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 04:53:00 09/08/2009

MANILA, Philippines—Oil refiner and retailer Petron Corp. has warned that the current ethanol-blended gasoline (E-10) could damage car engines and urged the Department of Energy to come up with clearer specifications for the fuel blend.

Petron chair and chief executive Ramon S. Ang said they had received many reports that the current blend is “highly corrosive.”

According to Ang, the company wrote the DoE last month requesting new guidelines to help protect motorists.

The Philippine Daily Inquirer was unable to get a comment from the DoE as of presstime. The E10 blend is still being sold in gasoline stations.

Ang said in a briefing that the alcohol mixed with gasoline could do much damage to a car’s gas tank, fuel pump, carburetor and fuel injector, among others.

The problem, he said, was that the government did not specify that there should be a dehydrator to remove the water content, which is what makes the ethanol-blended gasoline (E10) highly corrosive.

“That’s why Petron wrote to the DoE. If we push E10, we have to prepare the correct specifications to prevent damage to cars,” Ang explained.

“Right now, the DoE together with the industry is formulating the specifications and the guidelines. They are studying it. What we are saying here is based on the experience of motorists and our own experience as well,” Ang said.

Under the Biofuels Law, all oil companies are mandated to pre-blend 5 percent ethanol in gasoline-fueled vehicles starting February 2009 and increase this to 10 percent by 2011. Most of the oil companies began pre-blending 10 percent ethanol in their gasoline products as early as 2008, way ahead of the mandate of the law.

In a separate phone interview, Petron president Eric O. Recto said the company was still “in the middle of collating data to help the industry understand the potential impact of ethanol (on vehicles).”

“We have empirical evidence coming from all over but we’re not done with the information gathering—a few more weeks or a month maybe to complete (it)... ethanol has certain negative effects on car engines,” Recto said.

He noted that the move is an initiative of Petron, but was something they thought would benefit the rest of the oil industry.

“Let me put it this way, there are pluses and minuses in using ethanol and we just want to make sure that both sides are studied and heard first,” Recto said.

8601:matrix:

[ghosthunter]

“Let me put it this way, there are pluses and minuses in using ethanol and we just want to make sure that both sides are studied and heard first,” Recto said.

What pluses? All I see would be minuses:

-E10 gasoline gives less fuel mileage than regular unleaded gasoline. This is true even if your car is "Ethanol" compatible.
-E10 costs more. It is only "cheaper" because of government price subsidy
-E10 can damage engines, especially older EFI and carburetor engines
-E10 can rust gasoline tanks because of possible water content
-E10 gasoline "expires" when left un-used for two or three months in a car's fuel tank.
-Ethanol used to make E10 is still mostly imported. It was supposed to be a way to offset the volume of oil we buy from abroad. Yet we end up buying ethanol from abroad as well.
-Land used for the crops for ethanol production used land that can be used to grow human food.
-Based on studies, ethanol production takes more fuel than what it is produced. This is especially true if we are importing it from across the ocean.

[roberto_minosa]

Looks like engineers have no place in administration or legislation. Sad. And we have to make do with the short end of the stick.

[CVT]

Agree. They should have funded the study first, and evaluated this carefully, rather than jump immediately in making this a law....

8601:matrix:

[ghosthunter]

Agree. They should have funded the study first, and evaluated this carefully, rather than jump immediately in making this a law....

Ironic with all the pork barrel funds floating around, no one spends for a proper study for the biofuels law and how it can be properly implemented into the Philippines, especially where ten to fifteen year old cars are normal.

[badkuk]

pati ba mga bagong kotse apektado? meron kayang pwedeng ikabit sa kotse -- or better yet, at the pump -- to separate the possible water content?

good luck waiting on the government to do something about it; eleksyon na, everybody's too busy doing papogi.

Mag LPG o diesel na lang para iwas sakit sa ulo.

[nitrox]

Any reactions from the car manufacturers regarding this new allegation from Petron? Also, I know they have issued advisories about their car models' compatibility with E10. But if the car's engine get damaged as Petron warned, will the engine repair be covered by their warranty?