E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[greenlyt]

shell e10 or seaoil ba yan 36.xx per liter?

[artpogi]

wow, okay ito ah! saan ba may Shell E10 masubukan nga?

[ghosthunter]

Ethanol is not cheaper than gasoline. The only reason it is cheaper at the gas pump is the government subsidy on the pump price. But in the end, the government will get back it's money through taxes.

[rab]

yung E10 ng Shell mas mura lang ng 50 centavos compared sa unleaded nila. Hindi kasama yung kotse ko sa listahanm, pero ok naman so far wala akong nakitang pagkakaiba, mas gumanda lang ang hatak ng kotse ko ngayon at yung fuel consumption ganun pa rin. babalik ulit ako sa unleaded para makaiwas sa long term effects. hehe.

[j_avonni]

wow, okay ito ah! saan ba may Shell E10 masubukan nga?

Dito ako nagpapakarga sa Shell EDSA Buendia. Meron silang 1 pump dyan for E10 only. Last time nagpakarga ako ay last Saturday * P42.87/liter. Sa ibang Shell Stations wala pa akong nakikitang may E10.

[ghosthunter]

here's a list of ethanol (E5 and E10) compatible cars. with E10 costing 36.xx per liter, it's actually worth it!

are you sure that price is for E10 or for diesel??

[artpogi]

it's only .50 centavos less compared to unleaded fuel

[rab]

yung Shell sa North Edsa (southbound bago mag MRT GMA Kamuning Station) may apat yata silang pump ng E10.

[orly_andico]

admittedly medyo matagal ko nang nakita yung 36.xx per liter dun sa shell herrera/pasong tamo.
kung 0.50 lang pala ang pinagkaiba, parang hindi din worth it. LPG nalang!

[orly_andico]

well it does say civic 2004+
the SiR has a high compression engine, would probably suffer driveability issues on E10.

[sirkosero]

last nagpagas ako sa shell sa pasong tamo 42.xx na... that was two weeks ago

[LynxMan]

what? P30-P40 na ang gasoline sa atin? when i was there 2 years ago it was less than that. what is happening? i thought we have our own ofshore and onshore drilling platforms. ang hirap sa atin kung saan napupunta mga pera sa ivestments ng mga ganito. we should try and not be dependent too much on foreign players. stick to our own!!!

[ghosthunter]

what? P30-P40 na ang gasoline sa atin? when i was there 2 years ago it was less than that. what is happening? i thought we have our own ofshore and onshore drilling platforms. ang hirap sa atin kung saan napupunta mga pera sa ivestments ng mga ganito. we should try and not be dependent too much on foreign players. stick to our own!!!

actually, the price of gasoline now is around P42-P44 per liter

[orly_andico]

according to this site
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petro...home_page.html

average US gasoline price is now $2.989 per gallon. that's PHP 40.497 per liter. so the local price isn't really far off from the US rate.

[sirkosero]

Lynxman, no offense to you bro pero san ka ba located? parang di mo ramdam ang oil crisis at rapid increase in prices?

[Karding]

Lynxman, no offense to you bro pero san ka ba located? parang di mo ramdam ang oil crisis at rapid increase in prices?

Nasa UK yata sya kapatid. On his previous post, nagpunta daw sya sa British International Motorshow. He may not be driving in UK kaya hindi nya ramdam ang oil crisis. Unless, hindi nya ramdam ang crisis dahil sa sobrang taas ng sweldo nya

orly_andico, tama ka kapatid. Hindi kalayuan ang price ng gas sa Pinas at sa US. Kabibili ko lang ng gas, pinakamura kong nakita $3.13/gallon sa Los Angeles county. Kahit mga non-branded gas stations sa California $3.00 na din.

seems like LPG is a better alternative than Ethanol.

[ghosthunter]

Actually the price of petrol in the UK is higher than in the USA because of the taxes.

[LynxMan]

depende sa exchange rate and the type of petrol ofcourse.

[ghosthunter]

[SIZE="6"]Ethanol debate divides drivers,engineers, manufacturers[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]By Tessa R. Salazar
Inquirer[/SIZE]


THE SENATE BILL 2226 OR the Bioefuels Act of 2006 is due for interpellation, but some motorists have jumped the gun and have tried blending ethanol into their gas tanks. Their ethanol supplies have come from oil retailers such as SeaOil and Shell, the latter of which introduced its Super Unleaded E10 (meaning 10 percent ethanol blended) in May this year.

SeaOil's 105 service stations, on the other hand, have already supplied up to 2 million customers since introducing the blended fuel G5 Extreme E10 Aug. 29 last year, according to Rey Jimenez, the oil retailer's media relations officer.

Doubters

The use of ethanol-blended fuels instead of pure-gasoline blend seems to be catching on among a growing number of motorists, and so far at least two oil retailers are filling up this demand. Still, ethanol brings into the picture its share of doubters.

They stress that many carbureted cars (meaning the older model cars produced before the "EFI"--or electronic fuel injection--era) generally cannot be loaded with ethanol-blended fuel.

Not reliable

Allen Rufo, an engineer at Toyota Motors Philippines, said basing the compatibility of ethanol to the year model of the subject vehicle is not a reliable method.

"We're simply not sure what kind of rubber fuel hoses were used, or what kind of replacement hoses were used," he says.

To make sure, Rufo urges motorists to ask their dealerships to actually check the fuel lines of the vehicle.

Rufo warns that alcohol-based fuels such as ethanol could melt plastic and rubber components of the fuel system, the same reaction you will see when paint thinner or acetone is added to plastic and rubber. He added the reaction could be worse or be accelerated if nongenuine parts are used.

A carbureted system itself is bad news for ethanol, Rufo says. The carburetor's "open air" system increases the probability of vapor lock, especially during the hot season. The EFI system, which is a closed system eliminates the possibility of vapor lock.

No liquid fuel available

A vapor lock is a situation when no liquid fuel is available in the fuel line, causing the car to "choke" and stall, explains Rufo.

Jimenez, on the other hand, countered that a Worldwide Fuel Charter data say gasoline blended with just 10 percent ethanol or below is harmless.

Shell Philippines, which has made available ethanol-blended fuel in four of its stations since three months ago, will release a list of vehicles supposedly compatible with ethanol-blended fuel. The list is available at the four sites, and a good percentage of these vehicles are models 2003 and above.

Auto mechanic Olson T. Camacho, who has been using 25-percent ethanol blended fuel in his Suzuki Fronte and Lancer GLXi for three years before selling the vehicles, stresses a 10 percent blend is "very, very safe."

Camacho explains that a 10 percent blend of ethanol, which is a water-based fuel, would have minimal effects on rubber hoses. He does admit, though, that after two or three years, the hoses would eventually become brittle.

"By that time, however, vehicle owners are already expected to change their cars anyway," Camacho says.

Ethanol voiding warranties?

Car manufacturers choose the safe side when it comes to their views on ethanol. They urge motorists to check with their dealers first to make sure they are not putting any existing warranties at risk.

The Chamber of Automotive Manufacturers of the Philippines' (Campi) Aug. 7 statement clearly says that "any problem that may be caused or proven to be attributable to the use of fuel or additives not recommended or approved by the manufacturer, after conducting an appropriate test and investigation, shall cause the warranty of such vehicle to be considered null and void."

It adds: "Covered within this purview include problems directly affecting the following systems or components of the motor vehicle: fuel tank and fuel lines; engine fuel pump and injector; combustion chambers; exhaust systems; and other related functional components."

Campi, however, states that most of the current models of its members are compatible with biofuels as specified under the Worldwide Fuel Charter. It would still be best, however, if owners consulted the manufacturers first before loading up with ethanol.

An ethanol and alco-gas user who refuses to be named said ethanol-blended fuel has been successfully integrated in gasoline fuels used in Brazil and in the United States. His main concern with the gasoline used here, he says, is if the catalyst being used by Shell Philippines and SeaOil Philippines has made sure that ethanol will not "separate from the gasoline."

He urges these fuel suppliers to give assurances to local consumers that the ethanol-gasoline mix has been done right, the way it has been done in countries which have successfully integrated ethanol in its conventional fuel supplies.

[ghosthunter]

Auto mechanic Olson T. Camacho, who has been using 25-percent ethanol blended fuel in his Suzuki Fronte and Lancer GLXi for three years before selling the vehicles, stresses a 10 percent blend is "very, very safe."

Camacho explains that a 10 percent blend of ethanol, which is a water-based fuel, would have minimal effects on rubber hoses. He does admit, though, that after two or three years, the hoses would eventually become brittle.

"By that time, however, vehicle owners are already expected to change their cars anyway," Camacho says.

This kinda concerns me when buying a used vehicle in the near future. Imagine your fuel hose getting a leak because it became brittle because the previous owner used Ethanol blended gasoline for the last 3 years before selling it to you.