E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[ozcity]

but the question is...are those cars capable of running on a 10% ethanol?

[mantoy]

...continued

MOTOR CYCLES:

Before use of E10 in motorcycles not listed below, you should consult your handbook or manufacturer to check if the fuel is suitable.

BMW All motorcycles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Harley Davidson All motorcycles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Honda All motorcycles and all terrain vehicles may operate satisfactorily on E10 but Honda does notrecommend it because there may be drivability issues. Drivability, performance or durability issues resulting from the use of E10 will NOT be covered by warranty.

Suzuki All motorcycles and all terrain vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel.

Yamaha All motorcycles and all terrain vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel.


TECHNICAL REASONS FOR INABILITY TO USE E10:

The following are reasons why certain vehicle models cannot or should not use E10 because of material incompatibility and driveability issues respectively. There are also comments on possible exhaust and evaporative emissions issues. This list was compiled from information submitted by manufacturers.

CANNOT USE BECAUSE OF MATERIAL INCOMPATIBILITY ISSUES

Early deterioration of components in fuel injection system:

Fuel tanks
Fuel lines/hoses
Injector seals
Delivery pipes
Fuel pump and regulator
Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.

Some manufacturers advise not to use E10 with any model equipped with a carburettor because of material incompatibility.

SHOULD NOT USE BECAUSE OF DRIVEABILITY ISSUES

Vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be greater (if not chemically adjusted) and probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.

Oxygen content of ethanol is 34.7%. This can cause the engine to run lean although the Engine Control Unit (ECU) can generally compensate via feedback from the O2 sensor under light throttle conditions. However, hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration can occur due to this lean-out effect.

Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start.

EXHAUST AND EVAPORATIVE EMISSION LEVELS

Lean-out resulting from the oxygenating effect of ethanol in the fuel may affect exhaust emissions.

Fuel containing ethanol can increase permeation emissions from fuel system components.

Vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be greater (if not chemically adjusted at the refining stage) and can lead to increased evaporative emissions.

[BlueBimmer]

'will operate satisfactorily but not recommended'...hmmm

[j_avonni]

Got this from Sugar Regulatory Administration website:

SRA Ethanol Program

A consultative committee on an ethanol program was formed by the sugar industry to look into the production and utilization of ethanol from sugarcane as an alternative fuel. Sugar Alliance of the Philippines, an association of sugar planters and millers supports the Committee headed by Adm James C. Ledesma. A technical working group headed by Ferdie Corpuz, Industrial Research and Development (IR & D), Office Manager III is studying the possibility of sourcing ethanol from sugarcane to be used as fuel blend to protect the environment against pollution in compliance with the Clean Air Act mandating reduction of green house gas emissions in the country. This will also help attain energy security and displace imported petroleum to save on foreign exchange as well as address part of President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo's 10-Point Agenda.

To date, a memorandum of understanding was signed by SRA, the Center for Alcohol Research and Development Foundation, The Sugar Master Plan Foundation and the Philippine Sugar Millers Association in connection with the launching of The Philippine Fuel Ethanol Alliance. Coordination with various government sectors such as POE, DOST, DA including private institutions is also in full blast.

[DonCamote]

I've recently loaded an ethanol blended gas and my car suddenly had a hard time sustaining a start. I mean it starts and sputters to a halt if I don't sustain pressure on the gas pedal, sometimes have to start 3 times. No more one-click. I also thought it's not burning well because I've experience a less than smooth idling (magaspang) and felt it lacks slightly less power than usual. This did not happen on my previous sip of unleaded regular stuff. I'll go back to my regular unleaded when this gets used up. Will post a feedback then.

[j_avonni]

I've recently loaded an ethanol blended gas and my car suddenly had a hard time sustaining a start. I mean it starts and sputters to a halt if I don't sustain pressure on the gas pedal, sometimes have to start 3 times. No more one-click. I also thought it's not burning well because I've experience a less than smooth idling (magaspang) and felt it lacks slightly less power than usual. This did not happen on my previous sip of unleaded regular stuff. I'll go back to my regular unleaded when this gets used up. Will post a feedback then.

Never experienced this. Twice na ako nag-fulltank ng E10 and I think parang mas gumanda pa ang takbo nya. But I'm still observing. Btw, what is your ride.

[DonCamote]

Never experienced this. Twice na ako nag-fulltank ng E10 and I think parang mas gumanda pa ang takbo nya. But I'm still observing. Btw, what is your ride.

My ride is 1995 Corolla 1.3, Carb. You think my car is not compatible with ethanol blend?

BTW, I promised to give feedback after loading a full tank of E10. I've finally consumed the full tank of 10% Ethanol last weekend. Guess what, my fuel consumption went worse at 8.45km/liter (formerly 10-11km/liter city driving using a 93 Octane unleaded). Whenever I start the car, I need to depress the pedal to sustain engine otherwise patay makina. Running the car, i definitely feel the reduced power, like a car that is not well tuned. Mind you, this E10 was rated at 95 octane daw.

Reloaded a 93 Octane unleaded, in a few hours of driving I can already feel the car returning to it's former performance. Magaang pakiramdam, smooth idling, one click start.

I'm not closing my mind on Ethanol because there are so many good things about it. It's just that I'm not buying from that company that sells it again, I am more suspicious that there is more blend to it than simply just 90% gas & 10% ethanol, just a thought. If another oil company offers one, I'll give it a try.

[mazdamazda]

My ride is 1995 Corolla 1.3, Carb. You think my car is not compatible with ethanol blend?

Nope... your vehicle isn't good to run on E10.

The following models will not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel due to material compatibility issues: Camry with carburettor engines pre July 1989 and Corolla pre July 1994.

===

I'm already halfway through with my full tank of E10. Fuel consumption is at par with Petron Blaze / Shell Velocity.

[mantoy]

Petron joins fuel ethanol alliance
Posted: 6:34 AM | Sept. 29, 2005

Inquirer News Service

OIL refiner and distributor Petron Corp. joined the Philippine Fuel Ethanol Alliance on Wednesday, becoming the first oil company to be a full-fledged member of the organization.

The group is a partnership of the private and public sectors aimed at establishing a bio-ethanol industry and promoting use of ethanol as an alternative fuel. Its members include the Sugar Regulatory Administration, Philippine Sugar Millers Association, Sugar Master Plan Foundation and Center for Alcohol Research and Development.

Ethanol is an indigenous, renewable and biodegradable fuel that is expected to reduce the country's dependence on imported fuel.

Last May 30, Petron signed a memorandum of understanding with San Carlos Bioenergy Inc. (SCBI) expressing its intention to absorb SCBI's entire ethanol production.

SCBI will build and operate an integrated sugar mill, cogeneration plant and distillery complex for ethanol production in San Carlos City in the southern province of Negros Occidental. The facility, to be operational in 2007, will be capable of producing 100,000 liters of anhydrous ethanol (99.5 percent purity) daily while producing nine megawatts of electricity.

"The alliance is an important catalyst in pursuing the government's energy agenda which is a vital step towards sustainable development," Petron chairman Nicasio I. Alcantara said. With INQ7.net

[badkuk]

one thing worries me though: should this become law, paano na ung owners ng earlier model cars? (i checked the link posted somewhere on tsikot and corollas earlier than '92 can't handle ethanol blended gasoline) e di mapapabili ako ng kotse ng di oras?!?

on the other hand though, if it means lower fuel costs(and cleaner air)...i guess an upgrade is justified -- albeit quite sudden

[mazdamazda]

I just purchased a full tank of SeaOil's G5 Extreme 97RON (E10) this morning.

Initial assessment from my butt-o-meter... idling was a bit better during traffic and low RPM situations. Other than that, it is no different from Petron Blaze / Shell Velocity.

[momoyster]

it's cheaper than the conventional unleaded gasoline we use. for those who already tried to fill up with this kind of fuel, initial impressions please. tnx

[flakez]

new product ng shell? available ba sa lahat ng stations? masubukan nga minsan....

[comixster]

Wow! This is great news! I just hope pede sya s mga makina d2 s pinas...

[momoyster]

available at selected shell stations pa lang e. it's available at shell edsa (if you're on the south bound lane, it's the new shell station before you reach the flyover near gma 7) forgot about the other locations e. saw it kanina, kund hindi diesel lang yung dala ko, might have tried it. na-curious lang ako

[ssaloon]

available din siya sa shell edsa corner buendia.

[marv0083]

is it compatible with a mazda 3 2.0??? willing to try kung compatible

and what is its octane rating?

[Mamar]

anu octaine rating and how much cheaper is it than ordinary unleaded gas?

[Elroi]

The Shell Super Unleaded E10 gasoline is a special mix of unleaded gasoline and ethanol. The blend contains ten percent ethanol which according to the company, would run on most of the newer gasoline engine vehicles, although cannot assure it to run on all gasoline engines.

High concentration of ethanol may damage parts in some engines; cars could not run purely on it so it must be blended with gasoline. Shell's E10 gasoline makes sure that the blended fuel is not only good for the environment but also good for a car's engine. The alcohol component lessens the oxygen requirement of an engine to completely burn the fuel, thus making it much more efficient. And with the lesser amount of harmful chemicals like benzene and sulfur in the mix, it helps reduce harmful air contaminants.

Motorists who load up on the ethanol-blended gasoline could be proud of themselves by helping reduce the harmful pollutants released by vehicles. Although Shell advises that before loading up, customers must check their car manuals to see if what fuels could be used. A constantly updated list of cars that are compatible with the fuel is available at their website (www.shell.com.ph).

The Super Unleaded E10 gasoline is available at key locations along Edsa. As of the moment there are four stations that offer the special fuel. The stations are at Edsa-Quezon city, Edsa-Buendia, Pasong Tamo, and Pandacan.

[Mamar]

bro hinde ko makita san ba dun?