China Corona Virus Outbreak

[bloowolf]

So that basically also debunks the "regular flu" lang ang COVID and the natural diet lang espoused by the resident genius.

Maraming genius sa Covid, daig pa mga doktor na mas nakakaintindi. Pero hindi lahat ng doktor nagko comment kasi hindi nila comfort zone yun.


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[uls]

is original antigenic sin starting to dominate covid?


is original antigenic sin starting to dominate covid?

screenshot below is from dengue thread

this year makikita natin talaga ang effect ng bakuna

as the virus evolves further and further away from the original (wuhan) variant

how it will affect vaccinated / boosted people

[madball]

well,
it's common knowledge in medical circles, that not all ICU patients need ventilator support.
a significant number may need only a plastic tube of oxygen to the nostrils (oxygen cannula).

in the link you provided,
the article said that of the 439 patients admitted to hospital that were shown to be covid-positive,
220 seeked admission for non-covid concerns (asymptomatic).
i am assuming the remaining 219 went to hospital for covid-related issues.

there are studies that show how many covid-positives are asymptomatic and walking around, feeling un-sick, but i can't seem to find them right now.
suffice to say, that number is frightening, because those are the ones that can effectively pass on the virus.
wear your masks, everyone!

Old story na vaccines cannot protect the upper respiratory tract. They only give protection to the lungs. Omicron thrives in the upper respiratory tract...

Only good thing is Omicron infections develop antibodies that a very good vs Delta...

there are some early findings that the more boosters you get, the less protection you get from omicron

mag basa kayo tungkol sa OAS -- original antigenic sin

then come back here and let's talk about why fully vaxxed/boosted people still get SYMPTOMATIC covid as bad as this

Pia Wurtzbach:

Thanks for the info guys. I'll read more about the topic.

[baludoy]

interesting ....si nikki de guzman

https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status...936778752?s=20

[Vodka]

mag basa kayo tungkol sa OAS -- original antigenic sin

mentioned by robert malone on the JRE:

Joe Rogan 2:13:48 I understand. Well, is there a mechanism that would point to one of two things whether it is a decrease in immune response of a person who’s been vaccinated or some opportunities….

Dr. Robert Malone 2:14:04 Let me go down the rabbit hole of that first comment you made. Okay, so what we’re doing is with administering a mismatched vaccine, is we’re driving the effector in memory cells, B and T, towards a population that is focused on a virus that no longer exists. In immune response, you don’t get everything. And with what I think you didn’t ask me the question, but I’m going to answer it anyhow. What is your hypothesis for the poor durability of the vaccines? My answer is it looks to me like original antigenic sin. Well, that’s kind of a cool terminology. What that means, let’s unpack original antigenic sin. And I think what could be happening with these data as you’re just following your hypothesis you just shared, consistent with that is that we’re driving the immune response towards responding to an antigen. The receptor binding domain of spike that no longer exists, with Omicron. Now it has become clear, it was initially denied, but it’s become clear that all of us have a background immune response against beta coronaviruses. These are naturally circulating cold coronaviruses that have significant immunologic cross reactivity with SARS-CoV-2. And the problem with that in original antigenic sin is that those existing memory cells will dominate the immune response when you get infected, and when you get vaccinated. Now let me unpack that in a way that kind of makes sense for the common person. We all know that…well in war, the homily is we’re always best prepared for the last war. In your life, the sum of your prior life experiences biases how you respond to, I mean, in your martial arts, you must know this, right? Deeply, what you’ve experienced in the past in prior fights is going to bias how you respond to a new opponent. Okay. Same happens with your immune system. Does that make sense?

Joe Rogan 2:16:35 Yes.

Dr. Robert Malone 2:16:36 Okay. Super, you now understand original antigenic sin, because the prior exposure of your immune system to an antigen that is closely related to a new antigen. If you are having martial art competition with a person of a certain ethnic background or physical characteristics or whatever, and they have certain strategies that they use, the next time you encounter somebody that looks like that and seems to move like that, you’re going to say, oh, they’re going to use the same kind of strategies. Your immune system acts the same way with viruses, and it could be that they’ve got a whole different toolkit and you’re busy fighting this war, and they come in and, boom, you’re dead, right? Same kind of thing. So we’ve got a new pathogen, but it’s got a series of overlaps with the old ones that we’ve seen before. And our immune system is biased to respond as if it’s the old one. Now, to make matters worse, we’re taking the spike protein. Only one of the proteins, the dominant immunologically dominant protein. And we’re jabbing everybody multiple times and driving memory cells and effector cells that are to a virus that is not the one we’re encountering. So it could very well be that as you’re taking more jabs, you’re further skewing your immune response in a way that’s dysfunctional for infection to Omicron compared to somebody that is immunologically naive, they only have presumably they’ve either recovered from an earlier, because we got to remember the baseline group, the non-vaccinated group is actually complicated because it’s got those that haven’t had the virus before, but they’ve had beta coronaviruses and those that have had prior infection and are naturally immune. So you can appreciate that looking at these things kind of get squirrely. There’s a lot of moving parts, but when you see a signal this strong, it’s saying something’s going on. You ought to pay attention to it. In my opinion.

[dr. d]

if i have to talk to someone on a face-to-face basis, i.e., 1-3 feet away, i'd still wear my face shield + mask.
aerosol and spittle and all that.

and if i have to talk to people that close in the course of my daily activities,
i'd look for a plexiglass panel separator and face shield also.

"i earn income from the medical maladies of others."
so... bahala kayo sa buhay nyo.

[Vodka]

i'd still wear my face shield, when i have to talk to someone on a face-to-face basis, i.e., 1-3 feet away.
aerosol and spittle and all that.

"i earn income from the medical maladies of others."
so... bahala kayo sa buhay nyo.

i wear face shield w/ thick polycarbonate when dealing w/ anything potentially explosive

for blocking viruses w/ ballistic trajectory i wear safety glasses

the chemist in the vid is right, skip the face shield, spend the money instead on a proper N95. N95 w/o FS is more effective than FS+cloth_mask

[Athrunzala]

mentioned by robert malone on the JRE:

VIDEO: JOE ROGAN/DR ROBERT MALONE DISCUSS “ORIGINAL ANTIGENIC SIN”

JOE ROGAN/DR ROBERT MALONE DISCUSS “ORIGINAL ANTIGENIC SIN”

[dr. d]

Old story na vaccines cannot protect the upper respiratory tract. They only give protection to the lungs. Omicron thrives in the upper respiratory tract...

Only good thing is Omicron infections develop antibodies that a very good vs Delta...

allow this mortal to elucidate.

the vaccine protects all parts of the body from the virus.

the lung tissue destruction (as well as other tissues') is not the action of the virus.
lung tissue destruction is due to our own immune system's over-active reaction to the infection.
this is the reason why doctors use steroids and other anti-inflammatory medications, on covid patients. they are attempting to slow down the immune system's reactions, and avoid tissue destruction.

it is believed that antibodies against the omicron variant, may protect us against the other, more virulent variants, as well.
whether this is true, and how long the protection will last, remains to be seen.

[kagalingan]

yung miss universe lahat na ng pwede iturok....tinurok na.... pero mas napasama ang sakit.

im unvaxx sa covid, flu, dengoy... ano pa ba????

im also wala iniinom na paracetamol. Dito ako bilib sa pinoy ginagawang candy.

Ang ginagamit ko ngayon = kumot at moisturizer for my fez.

by the way two-days na ako kain leche-flan. Tigil ko muna nakakangilo

[dr. d]

yung miss universe lahat na ng pwede iturok....tinurok na.... pero mas napasama ang sakit.

im unvaxx sa covid, flu, dengoy... ano pa ba????

im also wala iniinom na paracetamol. Dito ako bilib sa pinoy ginagawang candy.

Ang ginagamit ko ngayon = kumot at moisturizer for my fez.

by the way two-days na ako kain leche-flan. Tigil ko muna nakakangilo

but kags!
isa ka lang!
you're the exception to the rule.
the rest of the un-vaxxed... a number of them are not as lucky as you. they're in the horsepitals...

[kagalingan]

https://www.bluezones.com/2020/04/co...ardinia-italy/

- In one town, only one resident has been diagnosed with the coronavirus

[dr. d]

https://www.bluezones.com/2020/04/co...ardinia-italy/

- In one town, only one resident has been diagnosed with the coronavirus

... lucky town!

[uls]

mentioned by robert malone on the JRE:

yup

your first encounter with sarscov2 will be your immune response for years to come... probably your entire life

if your 1st encounter with sarscov2 is the spike protein of wuhan variant via vaccine, your body will make cells against that specific antigen even when you encounter a mutated version of sarscov2 later

meaning your immune response is stuck with the original antigen -- original antigenic sin

so as the virus keeps changing (specially the spike) your wuhan spike antibodies won't recognize (or barely recognize) the mutant virus and you'll get symptomatic covid parin

Pia Wurtzbach is fully vaxxed and boosted and she got symptomatic covid that lasted more than a week

that's just 1 example

check out the data in highly vaccinated / boosted countries -- madami naospital ngayon fully vaxxed / boosted

-

i got astra my 2nd dose was august pa so 5 months na dapat mag booster nako

i was scheduled for booster tuesday this week moderna

pero nagdalawang isip ako

i know i'm taking a risk by not getting a booster

but... personal ko lang ito... i don't wanna keep training my immune system to recognize wuhan variant spike

that version of the spike no longer exists

may original antigenic sin na nga ako tapos i-boost ko pa?

lalo maging permanent ang yan

sarili ko lang ito i'm not telling others what to do

[shadow]

yup

your first encounter with sarscov2 will be your immune response for years to come... probably your entire life

if your 1st encounter with sarscov2 is the spike protein of wuhan variant via vaccine, your body will make cells against that specific antigen even when you encounter a mutated version of sarscov2 later

meaning your immune response is stuck with the original antigen -- original antigenic sin

so as the virus keeps changing (specially the spike) your wuhan spike antibodies won't recognize (or barely recognize) the mutant virus and you'll get symptomatic covid parin

Pia Wurtzbach is fully vaxxed and boosted and she got symptomatic covid that lasted more than a week

that's just 1 example

check out the data in highly vaccinated / boosted countries -- madami naospital ngayon fully vaxxed / boosted

-

i got astra my 2nd dose was august pa so 5 months na dapat mag booster nako

i was scheduled for booster tuesday this week moderna

pero nagdalawang isip ako

i know i'm taking a risk by not getting a booster

but... personal ko lang ito... i don't wanna keep training my immune system to recognize wuhan variant spike

that version of the spike no longer exists

may original antigenic sin na nga ako tapos i-boost ko pa?

lalo maging permanent ang yan

sarili ko lang ito i'm not telling others what to do

Pwede din diba na because of the vaccines kaya 1 week lang nagkasakit si Pia. Pag wala siya bakuna or hinde boosted baka na hospital/ICU critical or pwedeng patay na siya ngayon.

So pwedeng "mild" na yan sa kanya kesa naman sa alternative nasa ICU siya ngayon fighting for het life.


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[uls]

Pwede din diba na because of the vaccines kaya 1 week lang nagkasakit si Pia. Pag wala siya bakuna or hinde boosted baka na hospital/ICU critical or pwedeng patay na siya ngayon.

So pwedeng "mild" na yan sa kanya kesa naman sa alternative nasa ICU siya ngayon fighting for het life.


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yes coz wuhan variant spike antibodies still cross-react with wuhan variant descendants

theoretically if Pia got infected with wuhan variant she probably would have mild symptoms or barely any symptoms coz her antibodies are perfect match to wuhan variant

since descendant ng wuhan variant ang nakuha si Pia, di na perfect match ang antibodies to the virus kaya medyo masama symptoms niya

yes the vax + booster probably kept her out of the hospital coz there's some cross reactivity parin

pansin mo pahina nang pahina ang vaccine effectiveness as new variants emerge -- palayo nang palayo ang virus sa original variant -- which all currently available vaccines are based on

the only solution is to keep boosting -- what is being boosted is cross-reactivity

and whatever cross reactivity is left will be totally gone as newer variants emerge

[uls]

OAS example -- dengue

your 1st encounter with dengue your immune system will fight it and remember how to fight it

but when you encounter another dengue strain your body will use antibodies from the previous infection which aren't effective

the virus escapes and you get severe dengue (kaya 2nd dengue infection is worse than 1st)

(kaya masama ung dengvaxia sa mga di pa nagka-dengue coz dengvaxia acts as the 1st infection)

kaya sabi ko last year itong 2022 (and beyond) makikita natin ang epekto ng 2021 global covid vaccination

stage 4 clinical trial tayo lahat

[Miles_on]

or maybe he's not one thing is certain we shouldn't silence people who express concerns about vaccine safety

True, but if the guy is already costing people's lives and obviously BS-ing, someone has to step in and tell him to STFU. But then I guess if something has a 1 in 10M chance of something bad happening, it does suck if a person is that 10 millionth.

I agree din.

While we consider divergent opinions (because we’re not sheep) – we discard those proven, or in all likelihood to be rubbish.

Wala naman perfect, lalo na with this evolving situation where new discoveries are continuously pouring in. What’s valid based on best available info now may no longer be applicable tomorrow because research turned out new data. Science is evidence based, not scrying from some crystal ball.


For all you know, baka katulad pala ni Jor-El yun:

“My fellow scientists, Krypton is doomed!” Wala nakinig, ayun sumabog nga…

Tan tata tanaan… TSUPERMAAAN!!!

It’s fiction, but I think gets naman point ko

[Miles_on]

Ang ginagamit ko ngayon = kumot at moisturizer for my fez.

Eh ibang mask naman tunutukoy mo eh:

SOOTHING & MOISTURE ALOE VERA 92% SOOTHING GEL MASK SHEET | Nature Republic Philippines

Haaaay.

[Miles_on]

i don't wanna keep training my immune system to recognize wuhan variant spike

that version of the spike no longer exists

Baka naman hindi. I'm just speculating, but I believe some immunity to the wild strain still confers some protection.

For example , adults get 1 flu shot, but immunologically naive, very young children get 2 flu shots.

The spike proteins on the mutated variants may not latch effectively siguro to antibodies specific to the wild strain (parang tire wrench socket na ibang size won't get the lug nuts off) but in a pinch, a pair of pliers may work. Hindi nga lang the best tool to the job.

Hindi lang naman antibodies ang panlaban ng katawan. Major players also are T & B cells. I have no idea how fast they can adapt din, but who knows, baka they can tweak the (new generation of) antibodies to be produced na Omicron or whatever specific variant relatively quickly din, compared to a virus family that your body has never seen before.


In that sense, however much maligned, perhaps we have to give due credit din to the whole inactivated virus vaccine platforms because not spike protein specific orientation nila. Yun nga lang, mahina ang immune response talaga sa inactivated vaccines (not just the COVID ones) because it doesn't challenge the immune system that much:

Antigen presenting cell detects inactivated virus:
"What's that? Raise the Alarm!!!"

Immune system "Central HQ":
"Relax, its just corpses of some unknown alien antigen"
"White blood cells, clean up that mess!"
"B cells, for recording and filing!"