rollback!!!

[uls]

...and such is the natural way of the world.

Yes. Exactly. Such is the natural way of the world.

It's Darwinian natural selection.

It's survival of the fittest.

You do not become an Exxon Mobil or Royal Dutch Shell by being nice and compassionate.

You become an Exxon Mobil or Royal Dutch Shell by being cunning, aggressive, and ruthless.

If you, as an organism or company, cannot compete with other organisms or companies, then nature eliminates you.

The oil companies are just doing what they do best... survive.

[jpdm]

Yes. Exactly. Such is the natural way of the world.

It's Darwinian natural selection.

It's survival of the fittest.

You do not become an Exxon Mobil or Royal Dutch Shell by being nice and compassionate.

You become an Exxon Mobil or Royal Dutch Shell by being cunning, aggressive, and ruthless.

If you, as an organism or company, cannot compete with other organisms or companies, then nature eliminates you.

The oil companies are just doing what they do best... survive.

Agree.

But at the expense of the consumers and the public.

It is correct then?

[uls]

Agree.

But at the expense of the consumers and the public.

It is correct then?

They don't care if it's correct or not.

It's not about right or wrong.

To them it is amoral.

It's about numbers.

They are organisms living on instinct.

Their instinct is to survive.

[tidus1203]

Agree with uls. They won't care if we don't have gas anymore at the expense of them not being able to sell it at a price they feel is right for them. As always, if you don't want the price you are also free not to buy. You can also boycott if you want that is the beauty of the free markets.

[jpdm]

They don't care if it's correct or not.

It's not about right or wrong.

To them it is amoral.

It's about numbers.

They are organisms living on instinct.

Their instinct is to survive.

Definitely agree. You said it beautifully.

That's why they behave this way.Regardless of anybody.

[jpdm]

Agree with uls. They won't care if we don't have gas anymore at the expense of them not being able to sell it at a price they feel is right for them. As always, if you don't want the price you are also free not to buy. You can also boycott if you want that is the beauty of the free markets.

Agree here.They really dont care.

If you dont want their price dont buy from them.

Now, because they control the market of this vital product ..well...poor consumers like me have no choice but to buy from them based on the price that they dictate.

And the government has no right to meddle with the free market..


How do you call this kind of market..

When the public is hostage to a few companies?

I think it is not free...because with the same pricing...we have no choice...

Im not advocating for the repeal of the deregulation law.

Im just advocating for a realistic pricing of oil products in the Philippines.

[tidus1203]

Sorry pal I truly believe in the free markets even for essential items like food and energy. If people have to die so be it, survival of the fittest it only means there is just too much people for the limited amounts. The buyers of course want to buy low and the seller wants to sell high its always been like that and they have to find the balance. The government can't find that balance only a true buyer/seller environment can dictate prices. Even at these prices obviously there are buyers. They the sellers want to sell as high as possible at what they think buyers will still buy.

The price right now is free markets. Sellers price there products the buyers are still buying in essence agreeing to buy the product at the specified price. Now that is FREE. Government interventions have never worked and will never work. If the government interferes and price it too low for what is acceptable to the seller then the seller will just close shop.

[creepy]

It's unbelievable how embarrassingly closed-minded someone here is.

Simple lang -- if any oil retailer (be it Caltex, Petron, Shell, Uni-Oil or SeaOil) is selling its products at a price higher than anyone else... DON'T BUY from that retailer. Buy from someone else.

Kung talagang mas mura ang Uni-Oil, bibili ang mga tao sa Uni-Oil. No need for the histrionics from someone here.

That's how the market works. Stop this whining.

[uls]

the seller will always want to sell high

and the buyer will always want to buy low.

ganyan talaga e...

that's the natural way of things...

Don't get emotional about that... it's not about right or wrong...

Kung meron ka binebentang gamit, like a used car, or a used laptop...

diba you want to get the highest price possible?

Greedy ka ba?

Hinde... normal lang yan e.

Abnormal ka kung ibebenta mo ng sobrang mura.

[jpdm]

Sorry pal I truly believe in the free markets even for essential items like food and energy. If people have to die so be it, survival of the fittest it only means there is just too much people for the limited amounts.

I believe survival of the fittest does not apply to human person.

Adam Smith did not invent Classical economics to disregard the welfare of the society.

He only thought that free market system is the best system to maximize the efficient allocation and distribution of resources to the society

Survival of the fittest (as mentioned by Charles Darwin in his theory of natural Selection) must not be applied to human society. We are not beings just monkeying around ( literally and figuratively) i.e. Darwin's primates......

..That's why humans created institutions including the state and the government---to protect the weak and check abuses..

And Adam Smith despite his firm belief on laissez faire, acknowledges the role of the government in implementing regulations...

I find it callous for oil companies or any firm for that matter to disregard the welfare of the consumers....

and just let people die as what you said, as long as they have to survive...

in this situation, regulators must come in...

The buyers of course want to buy low and the seller wants to sell high its always been like that and they have to find the balance.

Alas, but the free (pure market) doe not really exist...

...a perfect market equilibrium cannot be attained...

...because the market is full of imperfections....

...especially when oligopoly, monopoly, monopsony, duopoly etc.. exists....

....its hard find balance...

..just like the oil prices in the philippines...

The government can't find that balance only a true buyer/seller environment can dictate prices. Even at these prices obviously there are buyers. They the sellers want to sell as high as possible at what they think buyers will still buy.

The government must find a balance as a regulator especially if the prices dictated by market (oil companies) are already unrealistically high) and might create social instability...

if the market refuses to heed the call of the consumers, the state (government) has the right to intervene in the market....

The price right now is free markets. Sellers price there products the buyers are still buying in essence agreeing to buy the product at the specified price.

Consumers are forced to buy despite disagreeing. Because its a vital product. The state is authorized ( fiscal functions) to used its powers when the market's behaviour is injurious to the general welfare...

Now that is FREE. Government interventions have never worked and will never work. If the government interferes and price it too low for what is acceptable to the seller then the seller will just close shop

Its not free because the consumers cannot choose in an oligopoly like pricing scheme in our local oil market...

It will work because the government is mandated to stabilize the market....(

prices of oil companies are all the same...

So an economy that depends on oil has no choice but to buy from them...

...but based on the sellers' price?

...its not free market, when you are at the mercy of the sellers.

[uls]

^^^

then what the consumers should do is strive harder to improve their competitiveness so they can keep up with the rising cost of living.

Just like organisms in nature have to adapt to the changing environment to survive.

---

You are competing with six and a half billion other similar organisms for survival.

Those six and a half billion other organisms need the same things u need to survive.

To remain competitive, u have to constantly adapt, constantly improve...

Like it or not, that's the natural way of things.

Darwinian natural selection applies to us too... not just plants and animals.

We may have created institutions to protect the weak...

But those institutions cannot prevent the strong from getting stronger.

So even if we have institutions, we cannot entirely depend on them to defend us from predators.

We have to learn to be more competitive, to adapt faster to the ever-changing environment.

[actor21]

ang pinagtataka ko baket kelangan pang mag maka awa ng malacañang para magbaba ng presyo ang Big Three..samantalang pag sa kabulastugan e maski buking na buking pilit na itinatama...ang alam ko nasa gobyerno din naka upo ang mga stakeholders ng mga big three e or mga kamag anakan nila...kaya ang kawawa??? sila ULS at Sarsi hehehe...kawawa sila kase di nila alam kung saang bulsa ilalagay ang kinita nilang dugo at pawis ng pobre pinoy..

[Galactus]

Some posters here talk about free market as if it is literally free. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Thing is, there is no free market. Even the US markets, supposedly the freest in the world, are regulated. There are policies, rules and regulations that must be followed. The term free market/ laissez faire is an abstract, a utopian invention. Even players in the securities market regulate themselves.

Survival of the fittest? Baloney. It applies only to animals, beings which do not have the rational ability to think the way humans do. Animals don't codify their rules, write it in stone and impose it on the rest of the populace. Humans have evolved to a better plane. That's why there is the Securities Regulations Code, the Corporation Code, the Revised Penal Code and Civil Code, and numerous other laws which corporations have to follow. The day chimpanzees and orangutans commit price gouging and profiteering will mark the end of the world.

Anyway, I've had enough of this. Karma na lang siguro ang aabutin ng mga oil companies na yan.

[tidus1203]

To all the people who complain on the prices:

Mag rally na nga lang kayo or boycott or do something you think that serves your interest. Basta ako tuloy ang buhay And I stand firm on the free markets even if the suppliers control the supply and even for gas. And yes I am immoral to believe survival of the fittest even for humans but at the end of the day the world has limited amounts of everything. Now I have said my piece I will allow you to argue as for me you won't be able to pursuade me to change my thinking.

[jansky]

hay, survival of the fittest at the cost of other lives
tsk tsk tsk tsk human instinct very greedy

kayang kaya nila mag taas ng 2 piso pero di nila kayang magbaba ng 2 piso

sasabihin nila para daw minsanan ang pagtaas,

di ko talaga makuha logic neto

[uls]

Survival of the fittest doesnt apply to people?

Explain that to the guy who has no education, no skills and no connections...

tell him why naghihirap sya...

The reason why other people are better off than him is coz other people have knowledge, special skills, and connections that gave them the opportunity to make a lot money.

He doesnt have knowledge, special skills, or connections. He is unfit. He can't compete. He can't make it in this world.

So he goes to the government to ask for help. He becomes the government's problem.

I just described 20%-30% of the country's population.

That's why govt resources are strained.

Much of govt spending goes to social welfare (aside from paying debt).

Hindi survival of the fittest yan?

---

that's why education is important.

that's why learning a skill... becoming an expert in something is good.

that's why knowing the right people is very helpful...

do everything u can to improve your chances of survival.

Coz 6.5 billion other people are competing with you.

[True Faith]

..These oil companies should heed the call of the government especially NEDA...

...Angelo Reyes should be castigated for not forcing the issue...

...NEDAs calculation is already a fool proof evidence that these oil companies are already should I say profiteering at the expense of the Filipino people...

...I hope the next administration should punish these oil companies...

...perhaps by scrapping or fine tuning the oil deregulation law...

...or tax them on excess profits....

[True Faith]

To all the people who complain on the prices:

Mag rally na nga lang kayo or boycott or do something you think that serves your interest. Basta ako tuloy ang buhay And I stand firm on the free markets even if the suppliers control the supply and even for gas. And yes I am immoral to believe survival of the fittest even for humans but at the end of the day the world has limited amounts of everything. Now I have said my piece I will allow you to argue as for me you won't be able to pursuade me to change my thinking.

I think no one is persuading you to change your position.

indeed, if people feel to protest let them.

if they want to boycott ,let them

good, ituloy mo ang iyong buhay...

...and let the guys here say their own piece against these greedy oil firms...

[XTO]

eh di tong mga to pala e mahihirap ding makaintindi? sana if ever matupad ang malaking rollback eh matuwa rin kayong mga nakakaintindi kung bakit di dapat mag rollback ng biglaan...pesteng rollback to oh pagulung gulong

Rollbacks not enough – Palace
By Marvin Sy
Friday, October 24, 2008

Malacañang called on oil firms yesterday to stop making rollbacks in small installments and implement one rollback of a sizeable amount, now that world oil prices have gone down significantly.

Press Secretary Jesus Dureza said computations by the National Economic and Development Authority (NEDA) indicated that the price of diesel should now be P35.32 per liter, while gasoline should be about P40.95 per liter, given the world market price of $70 per barrel.

“From the computations of many of us in government, it appears that there is a need for a hefty, somewhat sizeable rollback rather than in installments,” he said in Filipino.

Dureza said world oil prices have gone down from $140 per barrel to $70 per barrel so oil firms should adjust their rollbacks accordingly.

“We appreciate this but perhaps they can roll back some more because it is not proportionate (to the decline in world oil prices),” he said.

“So we expect that the oil companies will respond to this and of course the market forces will be a very big factor in the determination of the price level.”

Five of the country’s oil firms implemented a P1 rollback yesterday for gasoline and diesel.

However, pump prices remain way above the projections made by the NEDA and consumer groups.
Probe their books – Mikey

Pampanga Rep. Juan Miguel “Mikey” Arroyo wants the government to look into the books of accounts of oil companies, particularly the so-called Big 3 to reveal their multi-billion-peso profits.

In a statement, the eldest son of President Arroyo insisted on the examination even if the price of crude oil in the global market has decreased to as low as $70 per barrel.

“Other agencies like the Bureau of Internal Revenue and the Bureau of Customs can check on the financial status of the oil companies, particularly the big players,” he said.

Arroyo, House committee on energy chairman, issued the statement following reports the oil companies have consistently refused to reduce the prices of gasoline and diesel.

“If findings show excessiveness in the profit of oil companies, then there is a need to legislate a law to address the issue, but not necessarily to amend or repeal the Oil Deregulation Act,” he said.

Meanwhile, Speaker Prospero Nograles said yesterday the latest P1 cut in the prices of gasoline and other oil products is too small and rates should be reduced by at least P7 per liter.

Since the price of crude oil in the world market has continually fallen from a peak of $147 per barrel to $64, local prices should return at least to the January 2008 levels, he added.

Nograles said although the price of crude in January was $87.19 per barrel, the exchange rate was P40.94 to the dollar.

“The pricing discrepancy is just too big and absolutely unreasonable. We deserve more price reduction,” he said.

Today, the price of crude is $64 while the value of the peso has deteriorated to about P48 to the dollar, he added.

Nograles warned oil companies that the House energy committee chaired by Representative Arroyo would inquire into their profits once Congress resumes session on Nov. 10.

Lawmakers would not hesitate to consider imposing a windfall profit tax on oil firms if the inquiry finds out that they are raking in unreasonable amounts of earnings, he added.

Nograles said he could not understand why small industry players could make a P2-per-liter reduction, while Petron, Shell and Caltex cut prices only by P1.

“The situation is a world turned upside down. You have small oil distributors who don’t even have their own oil fields and refineries but who can afford to cut prices by P2, and you have these big multinationals that can give up only a P1 reduction,” he said.

“It’s too obvious that we are getting the short end of the stick here. The latest P1 rollback is not enough considering that world market prices are now more than 50 percent lower.”

http://www.philstar.com/index.php?He...id=20081023133

[Eismann]

survival of the fittest?
shouldn't we be helping each other out rather than competing? Shouldn't we be complementing our strengths to address the weaknesses? after all we are all stewards of this world's resources....oil included.

i hope the discerning people do concrete action on this.