rollback!!!

[uls]

ya why doesn't the govt just nationalize the oil industry?

Kick the multinationals out, and shut down the local players...

Just 1 freaking oil company.

State owned.

GOCC.

Something like NAPOCOR (money loser, owes billions, subsidized by national govt, kept alive by taxpayers)

Yan ang gusto ng mga tao right?

An oil company run by the govt.

Maganda naman ang record ng govt sa pagpatakbo ng business right?

BTW

OT lang... meron ba sa inyo govt employee?

paki check ung GSIS nyo.

malaking pera nalugi nyan sa investments sa financial markets abroad.

ayaw lang i-reveal.

Pati ung GSIS mutual fund biggest loser dito.

Magaling gobyerno natin e.

Bilib na bilib mga tao sa gobyerno.

[tidus1203]

If you find it (the prices) high then don't buy that is all I have to say to people who complain on the prices. I am just a student of free market economics so morality has no bearing with me.

[XTO]

nakakatikim din kaya gov't. from these oil companies????? :toma: palagay ko yun ang makakasagot

[vito corleone]

nakakatikim din kaya gov't. from these oil companies????? :toma: palagay ko yun ang makakasagot

actually, what i think is: any amount that is not given back to the consumers in the form of fuel price rollback goes to malacanang's campaign fund raising for the 2010 elections

[jansky]

well at least nag rorolbak pa rin kahit papaano
even they say 1 peso is not enough for meal but 1 peso is still 1 peso
better have 1 peso rollback every week then no rollback every week

[budo]

Well, Sec Recto, transport groups, consumer oil price watch, forumers, men and women in the streets, commentarists, columnists ,etc are crying the same thing - 5-7 pesos one time rollback. Isn't that a sensible demand?

They are not that dumb not to know the word "greed" when they see one.

Isn't it unethical whenever these multinationals report billions of dollars of earnings and yet we see ordinary folks (especially public transport drivers) here in Philippines trying to make both ends meet?

I don't buy the big three's arguments at all. They have all the financial resources to hire spin doctors.

Haven't you noticed - tuwing nagro rollack o nagtataas sila-sabay sabay? Ano sila may mga ESP? Or are they talking behind our back while laughing their way to the bank?

[uls]

Haven't you noticed - tuwing nagro rollack o nagtataas sila-sabay sabay? Ano sila may mga ESP?

kung ang raw material sa inyong industriya ay nag mahal, hindi ba lahat ng ka-industriya mo magtataas ng presyo ng produkto?

Kung nag taas ang presyo ng harina, hindi ba lahat ng bakery nagtataas ng presyo ng pan de sal?

kung nagbaba ng presyo ang mga ka-industriya mo, hindi mo ba din ibababa ang presyo mo?

---

Isn't it unethical whenever these multinationals report billions of dollars of earnings and yet we see ordinary folks (especially public transport drivers) here in Philippines trying to make both ends meet?

Isnt it unethical for us car enthusiasts to spend tens or even hundreds of thousands of pesos pimping our rides when there are many kababayans going hungry?

[badsekktor]

buti na lang may biodiesel sa area namin. 42.25 per liter! as of now

[budo]

If you find it (the prices) high then don't buy that is all I have to say to people who complain on the prices. I am just a student of free market economics so morality has no bearing with me.

I agree. But hey, if these oil companies find the business moral ground too high to be climbed, then they can go elsewhere, too. In a time of economic crisis, free market economics will not always reign (and will not always last).

Btw, even if I don't buy gas or diesel, I am still indirectly affected by this whenever prices of other stuffs go up.

[tidus1203]

Well if you force them to pull down prices beyond what they want and decide to leave us, then we are screwed. High price is better than no gas at all. Price controls never work, you have to leave the supplier and the consumer to sort this out. If consumers are not buying enough they will have to lower the prices down. Obviously, at these prices marami pa ring bumibili so that meas the price is acceptable to the market.

[Galactus]

Pustahan tayo, ask economists and credit analysts to analyze the financial statements of the Big 3, they can afford to rollback fuel prices even more. Ang hirap kasi dito, yung iba dyan, mas nag-mamarunong pa sa mga tipo namin whose bread and butter is to analyze financials. Jeez, financial and credit analysis is our line of work, I've been at this for over 10 years, and the inescapable fact is that the oil companies are reluctant to rollback even more, kasi nga they want to maximize profits. Para mabango sila sa investors, shareholders and to jack up their share prices.

But not everything is about the stock market. Pilipinas Shell and Caltex (Chevron), until now, aren't listed, although dapat years ago, nagpa-list na yan, in compliance with the law.

Dichotomizing situations is fallacious. Not everything is in black or white. It's not a case of "kung hindi ganito ang presyo, malulugi kami at magsasara." That's another crazy logic. Antagal ng sinasabi na mga oil companies na yan that they've been losing, pero they've been consistently earning in the hundreds of millions for the past several years. Next April 2009, check nyo ulit yung bottomline ng Big 3, NET INCOME yan ulit in the hundreds of millions.

Wala namang nagsasabi dito na bawal kumita ang oil companies. What we're simply saying is to moderate their greed, make it their corporate social responsibility to temper net incomes with alleviating poverty. Krisis na nga, maximizing profit pa rin ang habol nila?

[uls]

well, those 10 year professional credit analysts should post here more often to counter every post those non-pros are posting

and btw, as far as i know, in this forum, one doesnt have to be someone "whose bread and butter is to analyze financials" to talk about financials...

or any other topic for that matter...

[Galactus]

Well if you force them to pull down prices beyond what they want and decide to leave us, then we are screwed. High price is better than no gas at all. Price controls never work, you have to leave the supplier and the consumer to sort this out. If consumers are not buying enough they will have to lower the prices down. Obviously, at these prices marami pa ring bumibili so that meas the price is acceptable to the market.

Consumers simply don't have any choice. More than 90% of vehicles run on diesel or gas, so they are forced to buy, not because it's acceptable. Why do you think a sizeable lot of car owners here switch to LPG? If the price is acceptable to them, then they won't even bother switching. Some have actually taken to commuting/riding public transport to ease out the gas crunch. Di ba nga punong-puno yung MRT/LRT at the time gas prices reached P60? That's a clear indication na the price was totally UNACCEPTABLE then.

10 years from now, when alternative fuels are commonplace (well, hopefully), nobody would dare buy gas/diesel if they had a choice.

Ayan na naman yung doomsday scenario, when Caltex and Petron leaves daw, kawawa tayo. Bull$hit! Natural laws state that when there is a void, others will fill it in. There will rise new players to take over the gap left by Shell and Caltex/Chevron, and it may be rocky for a few months, but the markets will eventually stabilize. May mga bibili naman ng mga refineries and storage faciities nila eh, hindi naman nila pasasabugin yun.

Kaya nga ayaw nilang umalis eh, dahil very profitable pa rin yung operations nila.

I have a Petron Fleetcard (dati Shell kami, pero we've since switched), and the company pays for my gasoline expenses 100%, so I'm not personally affected by the rise in pump prices.

[budo]

kung ang raw material sa inyong industriya ay nag mahal, hindi ba lahat ng ka-industriya mo magtataas ng presyo ng produkto?

Kung nag taas ang presyo ng harina, hindi ba lahat ng bakery nagtataas ng presyo ng pan de sal?

kung nagbaba ng presyo ang mga ka-industriya mo, hindi mo ba din ibababa ang presyo mo?

Ora mismo? Same time (pagpatak ng 12 midnight?)

Isnt it unethical for us car enthusiasts to spend tens or even hundreds of thousands of pesos pimping our rides when there are many kababayans going hungry?

uhmm..where's the connection there? I don't pimp my ride because I have to set aside money for my fuel budget.

ULS, i know how hard it is on your part to defend your position but do try to see both sides of the coin.

[badsekktor]

sarap naman bro! ako i shoulder everything... I survived the 59 peso diesel.... ngayon 44 peso na... buti na lang meron 42.25 na biodiesel and i have one old sturdy diesel rig....

Di ko sure kung magkano ang rollback pero thankful pa rin ako dahil meron. Isa lang ang tingin ko dahilan kung bakit di magpapantay ang presyo noon sa ngayon eh yun wage hike.... tumaas ang sweldo ng karamihang employees....

[aejhayl17]

magkano n nga ba ang gasoline and diesel ngayon linggong ito?
di pa ko ulet nagpapagas for two weeks kasi two weeks ko ng di ginagamit kotse...
hehehe
sarap ng pahinga ng auto ko

[uls]

quote budo:

uhmm..where's the connection there? I don't pimp my ride because I have to set aside money for my fuel budget.

Eto po ang connection:

basically, everyone is saying, if naghihirap ang kababayan mo, mag sacrifice ka.

Consumers are having a hard time, so they are demanding oil companies should sacrifice.

On an individual level, people don't even do that.

Madami tayo nakikita naghihirap... pero may ginagawa ba tayo sacrifices para sa kanila?

Do we give them some of our money?

Do we eat 2 times a day lang para ibigay sa kanila ung isang meal?

no.

So why do we expect oil companies to make sacrifices for us.

That's my point.

[Galactus]

^^^ Simply because it's the right thing to do. To give back to the community, since they've taken a whole lot more.

Tama ba yun when AIG execs spent over US$144k on a weekend sa resort spa, getting their nails pedicured, when there were mass lay-offs? Was is it right for their former chairman to get over US$500M in remunerations, tapos iiwan niya yung company na bankrupt? Is it right for US taxpayers to shoulder the US$700 billion bail-out, tapos yung mga executives ng Lehman Bros, et. al. remain relatively financially unscathed, with golden retirement parachutes? Ordinary people are losing their jobs, their savings, yet their executives still want to live the good life. Now that's unethical.

Umalis si Pandak papuntang US, eh andaming namatay at sinalanta dito nung bagyo. Tama ba yun? When the Sichuan earthquake happened in China, the Chinese President was there ASAP to coordinate relief and rescue efforts. Kung umalis kaya siya papuntang US or Bali, do you think the public would like it? The presence may have been symbolic, but that it precisely what the public needs: a ray of hope, that this may be a bitter tragedy, but since we're all in this together, kaya natin yan.

[Gerbo]

Its true that profits is the lifeblood in a market economy (or capitalism). Nevertheless, there are 2 schools of thought that evolve;

-one, espoused by Milton Friedman, is that companies sole responsibility is to its shareholders...essentially "maximizing profits for the good of its owners".

-the other, practiced by the likes of Dale Carnegie (who divest 80% of his personal fortune before he died in the form of endowments, grants, donations) and lately Bill Gates through their foundation, emphasizing social responsibility as trying to give back to the buying community.

Nevertheless, such community actions are hard to come by esp. in the oil industry. Just go back to some environmental catastrophes we have due to oil spills....did these companies bother to care? no, because it will cost them. So where is the social responsibility there? In fact, their thinking is beyond governments...

The thing is the oil industry is one where the bottom line is profits... maximize them before supplies run out or alternative sources are in.

[vito corleone]

Isnt it unethical for us car enthusiasts to spend tens or even hundreds of thousands of pesos pimping our rides when there are many kababayans going hungry?

it's a wrong analogy, bro. . .nothing unethical about that