rollback!!!

[niky]

*karlbo: small oil entrepreneurs who will give free carwashes with a full tank of gas? Game ako diyan.... kaya lang ubos ang gasolina ko pagpunta sa place niyo...

You and niky should start doing it...

I've been driving for the past 15 years. When I started driving, gas was less than a third of the price it was now. I still commute when I'm not carrying fifty pounds of laundry and baby stuff with me, but the needs of business mean that I often have to drive. When it's personal business, though, I walk when my destination is just one or two kilometers from where I am (I used to walk six kilometers from UPDiliman to my wife's house in Cubao, and my daily walk in high school was about three kilometers). I take the LRT. I take the MRT. I take the jeep or a bus when I have to. I don't take tricycles anymore, because, seriously... if you're close enough to trike, you're close enough to walk.

Being from UP, I've also had the pleasure of getting to know the leadership and membership of the political left up-close and personal. I've been friends with some of them. We didn't often see eye-to-eye, and some of us debated endlessly about things.

I can't claim to be "poor" or "makabayan"... simply because I'm an American by birthright and half-American by blood (my mother is 100% non-Filipino)... and I grew up in a priveleged family, but I have lived the Pinoy life... gotten sick from eating 7 peso goto and drinking tap water... stayed at cruddy dormitories... gone to school in slippers. I married my classmate from UP. We lived in an apartment with one bare lightbulb and just enough space to stretch your legs for a while while waiting for her contract to expire so we could move back to my place. That whole time (and the ten years of high school and college before it), I was commuting to go to work.

I can appreciate both sides of the transport coin, thus... the sheer hypocrisy of it all. Their inability to admit that part of the reason that they're losing money is because they can't effectively police their own ranks. That they're losing millions to members of their fraternity who engage in colorum practices... that they waste thousands of liters of gasoline from ineffective terminal practices (waiting half-an-hour for the last passenger... lining up three deep... line-cutting... "singit") and driving practices (jackrabbit starts and stops, driving too fast, driving too slow while "trawling" for passengers).

They could save up to 30% of their fuel costs by practicing effective management. I've only seen a very few number of TODAs and JODAs practice this... and certain bus companies. Those which try to avoid oversaturating their routes, controlling the number of vehicles deployed at any time.

And it's this deployment that hurts the most. Wanna know why they lose money? Because the LTFRB issues too many damn licenses! And doesn't control the unlicensed PUVs, either. When you see nearly a hundred Jeepneys parked on the side of the street on just one route, you know something is seriously wrong with our transport grid.

Part of that, is as we discussed in the PhUV groups... the lack of government support for grassroots vehicle assembly programs, the lack of coordination, central organization and standardization amongst fabricators that ultimately doomed the assemblers of ultra-FXs and Jeepneys. This leaves us with a transport grid made up mostly of aging and obsolete jeepneys and dangerous, reconditioned, surplus buses from other countries.

And I've seen how the left does its propaganda work. Doesn't matter whether they have a good argument or not... as long as they can "stick it" to "the man", they will. I'll agree when they get mad at Gloria for messing with the constitution... but they protest everything. Even measures that we can take to ease the plight and suffering of Filipinos are taboo if the word "capitalism" is in there, anywhere. Help your fellow man, any way you can... but if that help involves making money... no way!

Wanna ask the ex-workers of closed export-zone factories what they think of that idea? Those who lost their jobs in the left's "war" on capitalism? If anyone's setting up a business... even if it means jobs for people... it's "evil".

It's a shame all that money being spent to wage protests and issue media sound bytes isn't being used to better effect... like to set-up cooperative gas stations that sell diesel at lower prices to PUV drivers? (it's been done, it sometimes works, it sometimes doesn't... where it doesn't, it doesn't because they don't charge enough to maintain the station well).

And that's the funny thing... transport groups already pay less than the rest of us... who're paying E-VAT on top of the price of our gasoline to support them. And they pay even less with independent players... or at cooperatives... whose gas stations are everywhere in the metro... yet they're still complaining about the big three?

------

It's not profiteering businessmen alone that we have to blame for our current conditions... it's everyone. Everyone who ignores the law, who cuts his fellow Pinoy's throats for proft, whether he be a bigwig or a jeepney driver. Those who politicize. Who voice out one thing and do another (c'mon, Noli... it's obvious)... The culture of corruption and mediocrity that prevent us from moving forward... that make opening up new businesses and livelihood opportunites an immense struggle against red tape.

That's why I said before that it was useless to boycott merely the big three. Why? Because local gas stations are run by local entrepreneurs, like karlbo, who are just out to make an honest buck. The money you pay them supports local business and the local refineries and Filipino workers at local gas stations and refineries. Paying money to small players sends your money (after the local owner takes his cut) straight to overseas refineries... people who don't have to worry about doing business in the Philippines or paying wages to Pinoy workers, paying Philippine taxes or sharing the profit with Pinoy businessmen.

And wherever you buy gas, you're still paying a hefty chunk of that money to OPEC.

So... if you want to stick it to OPEC... simple. Don't buy gas, period.

But do pass by Karl's to get your car washed. Help send his workers' kids to college... please.

[karlbo]

* niky - very well said..

OT: are you going on saturday? its going to be fun. i'll ask baiskee if his going too.

[Hanren]

I'm still surprised that nobody else here was buying gasoline during the time of the OPSF. And nobody remembers that under OPSF, when fuel prices went up, it HURT. When oil prices skyrocketed early this year, local fuel companies raised prices by 50c to 1 peso per week instead of raising it 10-15 pesos right away... under OPSF, prices stayed low until the OPSF was depleted, then they went up a lot, all at once.



And under the OPSF, transport groups would protest to the government to allow oil companies to lower prices, prices which stayed high to regenerate the OPSF.

I can't believe the children of the same people who protested the OPSF are now angling for government to execute price controls on gasoline again. The insanity...



Yeah. Way back in the 80's, when it was still 20 pesos to a dollar. I can't even remember the last time I paid less than 25 pesos for diesel.

if you want a perspective on oil and gasoline prices, you can simply go down to the National Library and pull up a selection of newspapers from the past thirty years... the transport groups have complained about the way gasoline is priced for decades... whether it's privately driven or government controlled, the effect is still the same... we're always paying too much.

My commutes used to cost just a hundred bucks... now I'm paying nearly 500 bucks for the same distance... and even if I use LPG, it's still a 300 peso trip. It sucks, but all the hand-wringing, fist-waving and rock-throwing ain't going to move the guys who ultimately decide how much gasoline is worth... OPEC.

The only way to hurt OPEC? Stop buying gasoline. And thanks to the stock market crash... that's what a lot of people are doing. Want 30 peso gasoline? Wait another few months... it's coming...

Sir Niky, naabutan mo pa pla yung time ng OPSF? I used to hear that thing - about people's tax money being used to subsidize the fluctuating oil prices during that time. Sa time ata ni Marcos yon di ba? He made a political decision at that time.

Well, OPEC is feeling the brunt right now and are thinking of cutting their output. But that would only be counterproductive because it would initially inflate prices at a time when demand is going down. Then there's also talk at BBC that Russia is planning to join OPEC (Russia's the latest victim of our Global economic crisis). Somehow, there's still justice out there..

If, by our collective efforts, we can't force the big three to give in to their "social conscience", then another force may just do it for us..(force us to change our lifestyle..again )

[oliver1013]

Sa problema ng bayan, bisikleta ang kailangan

[Gerbo]

CRUDE OIL is a traded commodity. As such it is subject to supply and demand. For the last 50 years oil-producing nations took advantage of this increasingly valuable commodity---the so-called "black gold".

Wise governments in the Middle East have substantially increased their treasury from the revenues it generated. Traditionally, the biggest users are the Americans whose lifestyle is synonymous with extravagance. Just look at their SUVs.

But time have changed. Politically, the US now loses its sphere of influence and could not put their whims on these states. Also it faced competition from the Chinese. The oil-producing countries are becoming less subservient and buffered by their richness invest on other things financially---and their clout increases. Take a look at OPEC-members who now owns financial institutions, assets, etc. in foreign lands.

So whats the point? The only time oil will become cheap is when it becomes IRRELEVANT which at this point is VERY HARD to do and still a wishful thinking. We are currently neck-deep on its dependence.

A former Saudi oil minister once said --the "Stone Age" did not end because we ran out of stones.

If we can only accelerate finding alternatives to crude oil and use such technology in a large scale.....it will cease to be of such high value.

BTW, the talk of how much reserves are still there is a TOP SECRET. Analysts can only made conjectures. And the idea that it is drying up fast is pushing speculations more to jack up the prices. But it is currently tempered by the slowing world economy as demand will decrease as citizens spend less in trying times.

[creepy]

So... if you want to stick it to OPEC... simple. Don't buy gas, period.

Someone says something sensible for a change.

Not another inane "boycott the three oil companies" proposal.

[jpdm]

Someone says something sensible for a change.

Not another inane "boycott the three oil companies" proposal.

Nonsense.

The only sensible thing said here in this thread is for these oil companies to roll back their prices, period.

[A121]

Nonsense.

The only sensible thing said here in this thread is for these oil companies to roll back their prices, period.

I think it will be a lot sensible to look at the oil companies' actual computation and not some third hand information. The guys here are just presenting why there are no one-time big-time roll backs.

Anyway, the big three will be rolling back their prices this evening.

[jpdm]

I think it will be a lot sensible to look at the oil companies' actual computation and not some third hand information. The guys here are just presenting why there are no one-time big-time roll backs.

Anyway, the big three will be rolling back their prices this evening.

Let us see.

[karlbo]

I think it will be a lot sensible to look at the oil companies' actual computation and not some third hand information. The guys here are just presenting why there are no one-time big-time roll backs.

Anyway, the big three will be rolling back their prices this evening.

huh? tonight?

pero thursday palang. usually friday night - sat morning ang rollback. hhhmmm..

[C#@RD]

mukhang nag rollback na shell, kanina pag pasok ko ng 6pm 48.07php pa regular unleaded pag uwi ko ngayon ng 4:00am 47.07php na lang 1 peso rollback.

[jpdm]

$180++/barrel of oil = 50++/liter of gasoline - reasonable
$71 /barrel of oil = 47++/liter of gasoline??!!-

we don't need a mathematician to solve the equation, actually, it's not even math! it's just plain and simple logic! even an elementary student can find the logic behind that! why won't they give us a big time rollback??!! well, whatever the reason is, i'm sure it's BS...

Taas price....bilis.
Baba...........bagal.

Only one reason....maximize profits...check the books of these oil companies. They are the most profitable business around. The Big 3 is always in the top 20 in the Philippines.

Greed or avarice is one of the 7 cardinal sins because it can can be limitless.

one word.greed..sa tagalog ganid!

These are sensible comments.

These are a reflection of how these oil companies are abusing the oil deregulation law.

NEDA Secretary reiterates his call for a price rollback....

For me its time for them to roll back their prices realistically.

[uls]

Only one reason....maximize profits...check the books of these oil companies. They are the most profitable business around. The Big 3 is always in the top 20 in the Philippines.

How about trying NOT to lose money?

Who would run a business with the goal just to break even?

Who would run a business with the goal to lose money?

And what's wrong with being in the top 20 or top 100 or top 5000 corporations?

[tidus1203]

But oil companies has LOW MARGINS comapred to other industries (in lay mans maliit patong nila). Yes they have more profits because their revenue is HIGH since almost all of us use oil but its the MARGINS that dictate if you are profiteering or not. Just in case, MARGINS is Revenue less Cost per unit.

Its like saying I have 100 shoes costing me P100 a piece and sell them at P120 so I make P2000 (oil companies) VS I have 10 shoes costing me P100 selling them at P200 and I only make P1000. Its the volume folks.

[Galactus]

old stock -- nabili ng mahal ng oil companies

new stock (arriving palang) -- nabili ng mas mura ng oil companies

--

old stock --nabibili natin ngayon sa gas stations

new stock (arriving palang) -- mabibili natin sa gas stations 1 or 2 months from now

--

Rollback price of old stock coz world oil price bumaba?

Ka-o-order palang ng new stock diba?

di pa nga dumadating ung new stock diba?

baket i-ro-rollback ang presyo ng old stock?

Jeez, the oil companies have been parroting this line since time immemorial! I'm surprised that somebody still is still falling for their crappy reasoning.

The main reason that oil companies have NOT been lowering their price is because they want to maximize profits! They've been telling the public of under-recoveries, yet when you examine their financial statements, they remain profitable. You don't have to be an economist to know this fact. Heck, I've been a credit analyst for so long that I've learned to differentiate fact from fiction.

The price of oil peaked in July at US$ 147. So following their faulty logic, dapat mataas at patuloy ang pagtaas ang presyo ng gasolina nung September or this month, kasi kakapasok pa lang ng new stock. Eh bakit naka-ilang roll-back na this month?? Tapos, before wala pang one week na tumaas ng Dubai crude, nag-tataas na agad sila ng presyo. Dapat maghintay muna sila ng 2 to 3 months! Crazy logic.

The fact is, you pay for the contracts NOW, and wait for the delivery of new stocks months later.

Actually, pati sa US, tinitira din yung big oil companies ng US Senate.

Multinational companies, or any big local company for that matter with substantial export/import operations, engage in hedging to protect against currency fluctuations. The spot currency market hasn't been volatile this year, so the exchange rate isn't much of a factor in pricing. You can take away that variable.

Anyway, ilang years na lang, and petroleum-based oil companies will become passe, what with the impending shift to renewable energy and non-fossil fuels.

[uls]

Anyway, ilang years na lang, and petroleum-based oil companies will become passe, what with the impending shift to renewable energy and non-fossil fuels.

If the price of crude oil keeps falling, those alternative fuels will become more expensive to produce than fuel derived from crude.

Investors will think twice about investing in alternative fuel production.

Others who are already invested in alternative fuel will pull out.

Oil price has to remain high for alternative fuels to take off.

[A121]

These are sensible comments.

These are a reflection of how these oil companies are abusing the oil deregulation law.

NEDA Secretary reiterates his call for a price rollback....

For me its time for them to roll back their prices realistically.

Sensible according to YOUR standards.

*karlbo

yep, it was on the news. hopefully, tuloy-tuloy na.

[jpdm]

Jeez, the oil companies have been parroting this line since time immemorial! I'm surprised that somebody still is still falling for their crappy reasoning.

The main reason that oil companies have NOT been lowering their price is because they want to maximize profits! They've been telling the public of under-recoveries, yet when you examine their financial statements, they remain profitable. You don't have to be an economist to know this fact. Heck, I've been a credit analyst for so long that I've learned to differentiate fact from fiction.

The price of oil peaked in July at US$ 147. So following their faulty logic, dapat mataas at patuloy ang pagtaas ang presyo ng gasolina nung September or this month, kasi kakapasok pa lang ng new stock. Eh bakit naka-ilang roll-back na this month?? Tapos, before wala pang one week na tumaas ng Dubai crude, nag-tataas na agad sila ng presyo. Dapat maghintay muna sila ng 2 to 3 months! Crazy logic.

The fact is, you pay for the contracts NOW, and wait for the delivery of new stocks months later.

Actually, pati sa US, tinitira din yung big oil companies ng US Senate.

Multinational companies, or any big local company for that matter with substantial export/import operations, engage in hedging to protect against currency fluctuations. The spot currency market hasn't been volatile this year, so the exchange rate isn't much of a factor in pricing. You can take away that variable.

Anyway, ilang years na lang, and petroleum-based oil companies will become passe, what with the impending shift to renewable energy and non-fossil fuels.

This is a very sensible comment and not a creepy one.

..and Not another inane "defend the profit of the oil companies again.."

[uls]

The price of oil peaked in July at US$ 147. So following their faulty logic, dapat mataas at patuloy ang pagtaas ang presyo ng gasolina nung September or this month, kasi kakapasok pa lang ng new stock. Eh bakit naka-ilang roll-back na this month??ay muna sila ng 2 to 3 months!

when the price of oil started falling after peaking in July, i was already posting in another thread (the Oil $150 thread) that there will be roll backs starting September.

But the rollbacks started earlier than i expected. Ung mga small players ang nauna. The big players had to follow. If it wasnt for the small players, the big players will probably start rolling back mid-September.

Tapos, before wala pang one week na tumaas ng Dubai crude, nag-tataas na agad sila ng presyo. Dapat maghintay muna sila ng 2 to 3 months! Crazy logic.

Pag tumaas sa world market, syempre tataasan nila agad ang pump prices kahit old stock pa ang binebenta nila. Kasi mas mataas na ang magiging puhunan. Yan ang tamang logic.

Eto po ang crazy logic: Tumataas na ang oil price sa world market... the oil companies wait for 2 - 3 months before they raise pump prices.

[True Faith]

*jpdm

just ignore creepy's comment.

The important thing is the present prices of local oil products are not justifiable as what the one who started this thread.

And there is a need for rollback of oil prices. The piecemeal 1 peso is not enough.


Its not easy to ignore that the government (PGMA herself; NEDA; DOE;Congress), business group, civil society, transport group, NGOs ,"activists" ordinary citizens (motorists specifically)are in chorus in demanding that the oil companies roll back their prices...

You ask everyman in the street, the words SUWAPANG, MANHID at WALANG KALULUWA come out from the mouth of motorists...

Even some suggested the government nationalized oil companies in the coutry just like Bolivia and Venezuela have done...although I disagree. Deregulation works somehow.

You are correct when you said its ok for them to earn profit but not too much..

Indeed, they keep on claiming they are losing money and yet not one reported that they indeed incurred loses. In fact, all the big three including small companies earned millions and billions in profit.

They are always on top interms of revenues and earning among the companies in the country for so many years..

And yet they conplain of losing money?

This I do not understand.

Ano pa kaya gusto nila.

You are correct that there is a need to remind these greedy oil companies that they have to consider also the welfare of the society and not the welfare of their company only..

I hate to say this but...

Malinaw na katakawan at ganid na rin talaga umiiral sa mga kompanyang ito.