Digong, The President

[kisshmet]

Before we extol the virtues of Russian equipment, it would be wise to bear in mind that for every type of plane and tank Russia (and the former USSR) manufactures, they actually make 2 variants. An expensive but fully capable version equal if not better than ita western equivalent (usually given to reliable allies like those in Europe) and a cheaper less capable version for export (for less reliable allies and buffoons like those in Africa and the Middle East). Thats why we sometimes hear lopsided kill ratios between Israel vs Syria/Egypt or US vs Libya/Iraq.

Were not a rich nation which can afford expensive military hardware of western manufacture. India source its weapons from russia in order to cope up with the cost just to have a credible defensive and offensive posture against their rival (eg china and pakistan).

I believe in the wars fought between india (russian weaponries) and pakistan (western weaponries) there are also kill ratios in favor of one over the other. The point is both nations imported their weapons and most imported variants are of lesser grade from the domestic variant of an exporting country. It all boils down on military doctrine adopted by every armed forces of any nation

If we are serious about external defense those are all the weapons we need for china to keep a safe distance from our shores

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[Jun aka Pekto]

Before we extol the virtues of Russian equipment, it would be wise to bear in mind that for every type of plane and tank Russia (and the former USSR) manufactures, they actually make 2 variants. An expensive but fully capable version equal if not better than ita western equivalent (usually given to reliable allies like those in Europe) and a cheaper less capable version for export (for less reliable allies and buffoons like those in Africa and the Middle East). Thats why we sometimes hear lopsided kill ratios between Israel vs Syria/Egypt or US vs Libya/Iraq.

We all know Russian export versions aren't quite as capable as the ones the Russians use for their own armed forces. But, they'll put up a better fight than whatever the PH have at the moment and in better numbers. The issues are not with the basic aircraft and performance, but with the avionics. If the PH think the avionics of the export versions aren't up to par, they can always upgrade via 3rd party.

The above is for front line use against external threats. COIN aircraft don't need to be advanced. They just need the basics: stable ordnance delivery, good armament load, good loiter time, good reliability.

[namwaran]

Were not a rich nation which can afford expensive military hardware of western manufacture. India source its weapons from russia in order to cope up with the cost just to have a credible defensive and offensive posture against their rival (eg china and pakistan).

I believe in the wars fought between india (russian weaponries) and pakistan (western weaponries) there are also kill ratios in favor of one over the other. The point is both nations imported their weapons and most imported variants are of lesser grade from the domestic variant of an exporting country. It all boils down on military doctrine adopted by every armed forces of any nation

If we are serious about external defense those are all the weapons we need for china to keep a safe distance from our shores

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With China as a Russian friendly, I doubt Russia would give us the prime weapons even if we can afford them.

[Jun aka Pekto]

With China as a Russian friendly, I doubt Russia would give us the prime weapons even if we can afford them.

If a country such as Ethiopia managed to snag hardware such as the SU-27 fighter and Mi-35 (improved Hinds) gunships, I don't see why the PH can't do better. The Ethiopian Air Force is so crappy, it has a problem with pilots who defected elsewhere, taking their aircraft with them.

If my wife can haggle her way to a great deal with a Nissan dealer (with a little charm, of course), I can't see why the PH government can't do the same when procuring military hardware.

[minicarph]

Malay nyo ibenta dito Lada Niva


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If you are wrong, turn right.
If you are right, turn left.

[namwaran]

If a country such as Ethiopia managed to snag hardware such as the SU-27 fighter and Mi-35 (improved Hinds) gunships, I don't see why the PH can't do better. The Ethiopian Air Force is so crappy, it has a problem with pilots who defected elsewhere, taking their aircraft with them.

If my wife can haggle her way to a great deal with a Nissan dealer (with a little charm, of course), I can't see why the PH government can't do the same when procuring military hardware.

For Mother Russia then! Those Migs just seem so sweet. NATO would be scratching their heads if this goes through.

[Jun aka Pekto]

For Mother Russia then! Those Migs just seem so sweet. NATO would be scratching their heads if this goes through.

There's still the matter of the strings attached. Is it going to be worse being a Russian or Chinese puppet?

[Yatta]

If a country such as Ethiopia managed to snag hardware such as the SU-27 fighter and Mi-35 (improved Hinds) gunships, I don't see why the PH can't do better. The Ethiopian Air Force is so crappy, it has a problem with pilots who defected elsewhere, taking their aircraft with them.

If my wife can haggle her way to a great deal with a Nissan dealer (with a little charm, of course), I can't see why the PH government can't do the same when procuring military hardware.

Well they don't call them "monkey-models" for nothing.

Another reason why its not easy to just change suppliers is compatibility. Most if not all our equipment is NATO-compatible (ammo, radios, etc), simplest analogy would be SLR Canon vs Nikon cameras. you can't easily switch because then all the investment in lenses would be lost. Also we already have licenses to produce the ammo locally in The Government Arsenal in Bataan. Then there is the issue that our military doctrine is heavily influenced by the west. Remember thoae Sokol choppers? Well now they are relegated to rescue duties since it turns out that its unsuitable for armed troop transports and air cavalry tactics because of the small doors. This is because the Polish army is heavily influenced by Russian doctrines.

[minicarph]

^ and the pshychological effect of Russian dolls in our culture, if we say we trade



_________________________________
If you are wrong, turn right.
If you are right, turn left.

[kisshmet]

With China as a Russian friendly, I doubt Russia would give us the prime weapons even if we can afford them.

Russia may seem chummy with china but deep inside they have a beef against them for copying their aircraft design, particularly the Su27

So the bottomline is interest. Its in the interest of russia to earn money and show the americans they are not isolated with china as their buddy in the international stage

Essentially every nation keep their primary or latest weapons to themselves. For example F22 stealth jet fighters of the americans are exclusively USairforce weapon.

In order to have a credible external defensive posture we need equipments to detect intruders like submarines, radars and missiles to destroy it if we need to

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[Jun aka Pekto]

Well they don't call them "monkey-models" for nothing.

Another reason why its not easy to just change suppliers is compatibility. Most if not all our equipment is NATO-compatible (ammo, radios, etc), simplest analogy would be SLR Canon vs Nikon cameras. you can't easily switch because then all the investment in lenses would be lost. Also we already have licenses to produce the ammo locally in The Government Arsenal in Bataan. Then there is the issue that our military doctrine is heavily influenced by the west. Remember thoae Sokol choppers? Well now they are relegated to rescue duties since it turns out that its unsuitable for armed troop transports and air cavalry tactics because of the small doors. This is because the Polish army is heavily influenced by Russian doctrines.

The PH should sync itself with the other ASEAN countries that have a stake in the Spratleys. Malaysia, Indonesia, and Vietnam all have frontline Soviet Sukhois and MiGs. Might as well join the crowd.

[kisshmet]

Malaysia have F18s an american weapon and Sukhoi 27s a russian weapon on their inventories

Initially those 2 fighters are incompatible but with a little bit of an upgrade in avionics those equipment wont be mistaken as an intruder by malaysian air defense crew on the ground

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[Jun aka Pekto]

Malaysia have F18s an american weapon and Sukhoi 27s a russian weapon on their inventories

Initially those 2 fighters are incompatible but with a little bit of an upgrade in avionics those equipment wont be mistaken as an intruder by malaysian air defense crew on the ground

The Malaysians do have 8 F-18s. But, they later chose the Su-30 (18 units) over new Hornets and Super Hornets. It remains to be seen whether Malaysia will go with more of either aircraft or procure a third type.

There seems to be airframe compatibility between the Su-27 and Su-30. To me, it makes sense for the PH to have compatible equipment with its ASEAN allies.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the PH to be compatible with its ASEAN allies rather than NATO?

[Yatta]

Malaysia have F18s an american weapon and Sukhoi 27s a russian weapon on their inventories

Initially those 2 fighters are incompatible but with a little bit of an upgrade in avionics those equipment wont be mistaken as an intruder by malaysian air defense crew on the ground

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Sabi nga, amateurs argue about strategy and tactics, while professionals argue logistics. Imagine being forced to to resupply 2 different systems in the field. A congressman once procured some AK-47s for the PNP, but the PNP rejected them because we already have more than enough M-16/M-4 ammos. Issuing AKs would mean filling out a truck shipment with both 7.62mm and 5.56mm instead of only 5.56s w/c could be sharef around the troops since they share only 1 kind of ammo.

Similarly, why wait and pay for the upgrade/adapter when the missile and plane works right out of the box?

[Jun aka Pekto]

Sabi nga, amateurs argue about strategy and tactics, while professionals argue logistics. Imagine being forced to to resupply 2 different systems in the field. A congressman once procured some AK-47s for the PNP, but the PNP rejected them because we already have more than enough M-16/M-4 ammos. Issuing AKs would mean filling out a truck shipment with both 7.62mm and 5.56mm instead of only 5.56s w/c could be sharef around the troops since they share only 1 kind of ammo.

Similarly, why wait and pay for the upgrade/adapter when the missile and plane works right out of the box?

We're talking about air force frontline aircraft. Right now, the PH don't have much of one. To me, it's a good time as any to start from scratch.

[Yatta]

We're talking about air force frontline aircraft. Right now, the PH don't have much of one. To me, it's a good time as any to start from scratch.

We are starting. We have 12 LIFTs (FA-50) on order. MRFs like the MiGs, Grippens or what have you will have to wait until we first get up to speed with advanced jet trainers. Remember its been a decade since the PAF last went supersonic. Parang pro race car driver yan, they start out first on slow cars then move on to the next fast cars, hindi naman yan automatic ilalagay sila sa F1 na kotse.

[Monseratto]

Having police checkpoints to make our streets safer is a state of mind...

[yebo]

The Malaysians do have 8 F-18s. But, they later chose the Su-30 (18 units) over new Hornets and Super Hornets. It remains to be seen whether Malaysia will go with more of either aircraft or procure a third type.

There seems to be airframe compatibility between the Su-27 and Su-30. To me, it makes sense for the PH to have compatible equipment with its ASEAN allies.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the PH to be compatible with its ASEAN allies rather than NATO?

what asean allies? SEATO has been dead for many decades already. ASEAN is not a military alliance nor do we have any defence arrangements with any of them. we have "talks" with vietnam and indonesia about joint patrols but there are no treaties that say we share logistics and intelligence.

malaysia? they supply the mnlf/milf every time the afp is not watching.

[zoomzoom]

Having police checkpoints to make our streets safer is a state of mind...

Sabi sa spot report, tinapalan ang bangkay ng MASKING tape. Pakitawag nga si Sen. Cayetano, baka gusto niya ulit ilabas ang mga tape na binili niya para malaman kung MASKING tape nga?

On a serious note, this brings my state of mind back to Martial Law Days. No doubt about it, this is martial law, without the formal declaration. You have to give it to MYPRESident for such an achievement. Slowly but surely, we are getting "there", and incidents like these are just the beginning. How many more to come? As MYPRESident goes around the country visiting each and every obscure Military and/or Police camp, empowering them, these people will just grow more and more abusive, so expect the body count of innocents to pile up, ad infinitum.

Buti pa yung taxi driver na nakausap ko naiintindihan kung bakit nakakatakot ang martial law, kahit sa mga "inosenteng" katulad niya. Can't say the same for the college educated millenials who are shouting "Gusto nga namin mag martial law na". God save this country.

[yebo]

Buti pa yung taxi driver na nakausap ko naiintindihan kung bakit nakakatakot ang martial law, kahit sa mga "inosenteng" katulad niya. Can't say the same for the college educated millenials who are shouting "Gusto nga namin mag martial law na". God save this country.

ah yes, the damn millennials. the sorry thing is that no matter what you tell them they will insist marcos' martial law was good. the marcoses must have spent many millions brain washing them. i would not be surprised if they have history professors in both hight school and college in their payroll.