Mitsubishi Montero Sudden Acceleration Accidents [MERGED]

[EVO-V]

Mitsubishi nearly went belly up locally because of the ruckus raised by one media personality. They need the media more than the media needs them.

-

I rely on evidence. And so far, evidence has not shown that there is a fault.

When you rely on the testimony of the drivers themselves stating they are not at fault, it becomes a "he said, she said" case. Statistics show a damning preponderance of these cases happening to much, much older drivers, both here and abroad, which raises the specter of driver error.

-

I am not against the physical cause explanation... floormats are most likely. But an electronic fault leading to this... nope. Not without a cruise control module, which many of the vehicles in these cases don't have.

You cannot dismiss this notion as anecdotal. The fact that an unusual number of accidents involving this vehicle with practically the same set of circumstances should already raise red flags.

We do not live in a country where tort laws are sufficiently rewarding to victims of defective vehicles to even surmise that "he says she says" instances of this increasingly repeatable phenomenon is motivated by compensatory damages.

Here's the problem with seeking proof. Most unintended sudden acceleration instances have electronic root causes. It unfortunately does not leave any trace nor can it be demonstrated on demand.

Mitsubishi, and even the auto press, can't be so passive about this situation because they're just cozy with each other.

The ISSUE obviously is public safety, consumer welfare a close second, and it is simply irresponsible to relegate it to reckless driving or rumor mongering. Clearly you can assign someone to actually investigate this by interviewing actual victims and not just publishing manicured PR releases.

[Ry_Tower]

^ What is your scientific and factual evidence aside from testimony?

May mga nag-try na nga eh, apak sa gas at brake. Hindi kaya nang makina ang brake. Titigil siya. So yung mga bumangga, isa lang ibig sabihin, hindi naka-preno. Tanong dyan, may SUA ba or nakalimutan lang?

Nagconduct na nang testing MMC sa sasakyan, walang nakitang mali sa computer program. Unless meron ka proof na dinaya yung result, file a formal complain sa DTI and post here the result of an independent inquiry. Or since super caring ka sa public safety, why not conduct the interview itself and post the interview here or send it to the press. I-video mo ha para clear.

[Walter]

That person probably has an agenda so it's useless convincing him / her. Scientific proof won't do any good. He /She went as far as posting a decade old article so you won't change his / her mind.

[niky]

You cannot dismiss this notion as anecdotal. The fact that an unusual number of accidents involving this vehicle with practically the same set of circumstances should already raise red flags.

Name the circumstances.

Car is parked.

Car is started.

Car lunges forward.

Driver claims that they're pressing on the brakes.

Car doesn't stop.

-

But that's not all. Read through those cases again, and other circumstances are common.

Driver has gotten out of the car and back in.

Driver is usually old or "experienced" (meaning... old. )

-

You cannot look at a bunch of anecdotes and proclaim that "this must be the cause." There are two main causes of SUA: Floormats and driver error. The last two factors... the driver moving in and out and the driver's age, point to those possibilities.

-

That Stradas are not involved helps point out the demographic issue. Stradas are not driven by "manong" or older owners. Stradas are bought by young people. And are not, so far, involved in SUA.

-

This is why the Toyota case in the US was so long and drawn out. After finding fault with dealer-installed floormats that could entrap the pedals, there was an intensive forensic investigation (a witch hunt) to find other causes... and none could be found.

There has been forensic and investigative evidence, in the past, that cruise control modules could go wild and cause SUA. But cruise control is not offered on these cars, and cruise control nowadays automatically deactivates with brake application.

-

An electronic accelerator pedal has two independent sensors or potentiometers. If one fails, there is a back-up. This is not much different from most throttle controls nowadays, on vehicles everywhere. The difference between a car throttle and an aircraft throttle or boat throttle is that the pilot cannot see the car throttle. It's stuck in the footwell beside the brake. And it's a one-way device... spring-loaded to return to center. You can't pull it back without hooking your foot under it (impossible during floormat entanglement).

These will not fail in the "on" position, not like the cheap potentiometers you find in crappy videogame controllers, which have no built-in redundancy and can corrode to the point where the button is always "on".
-

Even in the worst, most horrible clunkers and cut-rate off-brand cars I've driven... where there are ghosts in the electronics, gauges go haywire and hydraulic pressure goes bye-bye for no reason at all... I've never seen an electric throttle or speed governor stick open. Ever. The only way it can happen is with a cable-type throttle and lots of grime or rust.

The bigger worry is your brakes suddenly going dead. THAT, I can believe... and THAT, I have seen. But that is not an electronic thing. It's a maintenance and physical failure issue.

-

I'm all for a major investigation by the government. So that the case can be put to rest. Like I said... you cannot look at the cases and simply say: "This is the cause." So I could still be wrong about driver error.

My money, really, is on thick, dealer-extra floormats. But of course, any resolution where the manufacturer isn't blamed won't please some people...

[samira]

So many people experienced this, people i know, we are also a victim of this. For those non-believers, your lucky that this has not happened to you. Mitsubishi will not admit to any fault on their product, so the buyers are left all alone, no one to blame except their decision on buying a lemon product.

[samira]

By the way, we are not old people and we're not ignorant of automatic gearboxes.

[EVO-V]

That person probably has an agenda so it's useless convincing him / her. Scientific proof won't do any good. He /She went as far as posting a decade old article so you won't change his / her mind.

And what AGENDA is that Walter? For someone who likes to drop terms like "scientific" and "proof" you jumped on this shoot the messenger campaign rather quickly. I could say the same of you. What's your agenda?

A decade old article reflects a systematic process within Mitsubishi to continually ignore and hide complaints. If history is such a poor teacher for you then you shouldn't be making these remarks as they are irrelevant.

FYI, Mitsubishi vehicles comprise a good number of our small fleet. I am a fan of Mitsubishi, at least up until they introduced that abomination called the Evo VII. We own two Monteros, one 2009 M/T (already dispatched) and one 2011 A/T. I also owned an Evo V at one point in time and develop performance components for these and similar vehicles. The company has a host of utility vehicles bearing the 3 diamond emblem.

So yeah, I think my agenda is pretty simple -its called consumer rights! We have the right to know what is going on. We have the right to know if we are in danger, we have the right to know if driving this vehicle incurs us liabilities.

With the 2009 GLS I experienced the engine cutting out while shifting gears at 40-60 kph. This repeated itself, of course the CASA people can't replicate it on demand and just shrugged.

The presupposition here is that you're relying on bad faith from consumers. What I yet have to look at is an actual analysis on how many Monteros are involved in such accidents in relation to other APS-equipped SUV's from other models/makes.

An electronic problem cannot be replicated on demand nor will it leave a footprint. What you really have to rely on is a statistical analysis to determine whether these complaints are more than just a blip.

Because if we were to simply talk about this on the basis of rumor or scaremongering, then the burden of proof is on the manufacturer. The least the press can do is actually do a bit of homework than just label these things as anecdotal.

To be healthily skeptical, how many of these cases did you have "old" drivers cited? Sudden acceleration involving older drivers, tend to have the car already geared into Drive. In cases involving the Montero, the engine revved up as the vehicle is either placed into R or D, which means that the brakes are (at least in the case of R) engaged.

Understand that the people in these cases, majority of which involve a Montero, aren't exactly out to profit from sharing their experience. Insurance takes care of the damage. The overriding concern is for public safety. The world is thankfully not as simple as Walter sees it.

That sounds disturbingly similar to what Toyota was singing up until they were forced to admit potential problems with their components.

Failure analysis thrives mostly on numbers. Quality control systems are sensitive enough to note unusual reports which leads them to a finite set potential causes.

How customers have been treated, is just another point of aggravation. What are the demographics of Montero drivers, are they all that old to be so prone to age-related driver errors?

Personally, I am looking at this more on a sensor and silicon level.

The easiest way to determine if this merits a better look has been to review the numbers. How many accidents has the Montero been involved in that has been cited as SUA? Then go deeper, talk to the drivers and vehicle owners, collate factors, then run another stat regression.

The demographics of these people vary, well enough to say that to be driven by malice or financial gain is too simplistic an excuse to summarily dismiss their claims because of a suspicion of an "agenda". The average income of a Montero owner will most likely preclude them from wanting the inconvenience of being figured in an accident let alone handling the liabilities.

I'm all for a major investigation by the government. So that the case can be put to rest. Like I said... you cannot look at the cases and simply say: "This is the cause." So I could still be wrong about driver error.

Yes because we place so much faith in government protection of consumer rights that they should be the one to examine this. Come on! That's just like saying NEVER INVESTIGATE.

Where are the numbers?

[skybison]

It's alive again! Ilan na ba sales ng monty?

[kapitan88]

last quearter of the year, tumataas na ang car sales.

[111prez]

Showing na kasi ulit ang "The Walking Dead"

[Retz]

na up ulit itong thread? meron na naman bagong SUA incident?

[EVO-V]

So many people experienced this, people i know, we are also a victim of this. For those non-believers, your lucky that this has not happened to you. Mitsubishi will not admit to any fault on their product, so the buyers are left all alone, no one to blame except their decision on buying a lemon product.

This IS exactly the point.

Stepping on the brake and punching the accelerator only shows that you're testing the brake system. That's intellectually defunct as a testing methodology and designed more for PR damage control as opposed to seeking an explanation to things.

[monty_GTV]

FYI, Mitsubishi vehicles comprise a good number of our small fleet. I am a fan of Mitsubishi, at least up until they introduced that abomination called the Evo VII. We own two Monteros, one 2009 M/T (already dispatched) and one 2011 A/T. I also owned an Evo V at one point in time and develop performance components for these and similar vehicles. The company has a host of utility vehicles bearing the 3 diamond emblem.

if you are a fan of mitsu and you personally own two monteros, then why not direct your question and demand an explanation from them?

So yeah, I think my agenda is pretty simple -its called consumer rights! We have the right to know what is going on. We have the right to know if we are in danger, we have the right to know if driving this vehicle incurs us liabilities.

for consumer rights i think you can to go to DTI and ask them what is going on? and maybe from them you can find out whether driving your 2009 and 2011 montero are putting you in danger...

i must say that i am one of the lucky ones that have not experienced these so called SUA. what i am experiencing now is the SIA, or sudden intended acceleration brought by the minor modifications i added like k&n air filter, diesel chip, sprint booster, bigger diameter exhaust system and EGR blanking. so much of my hunger of needed acceleration that i am now considering upgrading to a bigger front mount intercooler...

[Djerms]

Two of our industry friends experienced this sua. Yes its a friend. No personal experience with the SUA so Believe it or not...I dont care.

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk

[nivraarvin]

When this happens, BRAKE!!

If you still accelerate and the revs build up, your foot maybe on the wrong pedal.

[Retz]

^

ang problema sir eh natataranta kaya mali ung inaapakan.

[Walter]

^

ang problema sir eh natataranta kaya mali ung inaapakan.

For some people that's not a scientific explanation. Remember, they have the right to know what is going on. They have the right to know if they are in danger, they have the right to know if driving this vehicle incurs liabilities.

Guess a lot of people don't want those rights since they keep on buying Montero Sports. Maybe nobody informed.

Welcome, it's more fun in the Philippines.

[Djerms]

When this happens, BRAKE!!

If you still accelerate and the revs build up, your foot maybe on the wrong pedal.

Not all drivers will have presence of mind. Mitsubishi should make sure this doesnt happen anyway. Wondering why toyota are not plagued by sua reports. Fyi our 2010 sta fe revved wild. Luckily it on neutral. Might be the same prob for mitsu.

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk

[glenn_duke]

Not all drivers will have presence of mind. Mitsubishi should make sure this doesnt happen anyway. Wondering why toyota are not plagued by sua reports. Fyi our 2010 sta fe revved wild. Luckily it on neutral. Might be the same prob for mitsu.

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk

Did you ask Hyundai what caused the wild revving of your Sta Fe?

[ano727]

For some people that's not a scientific explanation. Remember, they have the right to know what is going on. They have the right to know if they are in danger, they have the right to know if driving this vehicle incurs liabilities.

Guess a lot of people don't want those rights since they keep on buying Montero Sports. Maybe nobody informed.

Welcome, it's more fun in the Philippines.

If you are able to systematically reproduce the claimed SUA, then I will believe.
I personally tried to do it several times in my Montero and was unable to produce SUA while doing proper braking.