Ford Explorer Problems

[OTEP]

orocan,ang plastic na walastik

Huwag ka, pinamimigay iyan dati ni Arnel Ignacio sa 'CHIBUGAN NA!'.

[redorange]

Have you taken it to other dealerships besides Ford Global? I know in your previous thread other members suggested you take it to another dealership to see if they can fix the problems and even get better service. Sure hope you did that before deciding to blow 1M by selling the vehicle.

[empy]

my point is, under what grounds are they denying you warranty service (replacing the master cylinder)? if they have no good reason then that's breach of contract.

have they been able to replicate and diagnose the problem you reported?
is the performance of the braking system compromised in any way?

if this is the case, i don't see how they can get out of replacing it.

now, on the other hand, i used to work in the auto industry and know of customers who bring their car in for problems that are too minute or wear-and-tear related (like the guy who wanted a whole new leather interior because the seat bolsters were wearing, or the guy who thought his sunroof made too much noise when retracting). hopefully that's not the case here.

if it's truly an issue and the brake system is not operating properly, then they should either fix it or be sued.

[oldblue]

The problem is some of the components are inherently designed not to be tough. Kaya kahit ayusin nila iyan back to 'brand new' standards it is still bound to fail. The rattles in the interior are not only due to crappy workmanship, it is also due to crappy parts. Sino ba naman ang kukuha sa Orocan para maging supplier ng interior ng Php2M++ na sasakyan? No matter how well you put it together, the parts are still crap. Put two pieces of hard plastic near each other and they will rattle, hindi ba naisip ng Ford yun?

Yung roof console nga ni RedHorse ayaw kumapit diba? Eh wala namang mali sa pagkaka assemble. Talagang mali lang yung design using plastic bits to hold it.

i believe it's a trick of the mind. pag sira na ang isa or dalwa, sira na ang lahat. at marami pang masisira pa.

i think he posted about the enumerated problems some weeks back. ngaun, naman brake master na.

this is so unbelievable even for an American car. like the defects were connected in some way, from cosmetics to the engine hehehe


I doubt that engineers think this way, even businessmen. maybe doctors will (with due respect sir Otep), hehehe, coz they may compare a car like a human body. if one part is malfunctioning, sick, it can affect the other in due time, so on so froth.

kaya binibigyan ko lang sya ng advice, to stop this course of thinking, breathe deeply, keep an open mind, and re-evaluate. coz 4M is lot of money.

i dont believe that Ford Explorers have substandard parts coz CBU eto eh. so we can rule out the orocan thing. but Ford Explorers are like the police cars of some mountainous American States. even in the Mexican Borders, eto ang gamit ng DEA, Border Police and even ATF. siguro naman, when used in law enforcement, the American govt. thoroughly researched it before they purchased bulks of Ford explorers.

mahirap talaga ang stereotyping, tulad dito sa'tin. we consider Prados, Pajeros, Patrols as durable all-terrain vehicles. But I doubt an FBI agent sent here will be confident enough to catch an international fugitive, while riding a slow diesel.

[mazdamazda]

Have you taken it to other dealerships besides Ford Global? I know in your previous thread other members suggested you take it to another dealership to see if they can fix the problems and even get better service. Sure hope you did that before deciding to blow 1M by selling the vehicle.

+1 on this.

We have already suggested before the Ford dealerships who have a good track record here.

[rsc6288]

In response to OTEP and Oldblue's comments.....Hindi ko naman papapalit sa kanila yan if I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. Marami na akong naging kotse in my lifetime. Never have I experience owning a car wherein wala pang 1000 kms may mga rattles na........I mean if it's 5 years old na or maybe naman at least 3 years, acceptable na yan. With regards to the master cylinder, I told them the brake pedals sinks a little more to the floor than usual when the engine is warm na and that's when the noise comes out although better na than when the brake booster wasn't replaced pa. I am not a mechanic or anything but I read up on it on the net. If the master cylinder is not replaced, eventually the new brake booster will give way again because there is no back pressure coming from the master cylinder to stop the pedal where it is supposed to stop and that will cause premature wearing on the brake booster which is absorbing all the pressure from your foot. For anyone who knows car repairs, one of the signs of a faulty brake cylinder is that the brake pedal sinks to the floor. I have read some threads also about other Ford owners on the net who have similar problems like mine......their brake booster have to be replaced a number of times before they finally figured out that replacing the master cylinder eliminated the problem. Can't remember the website but look under "noisy brake pedals" or something like that on google. From what I remembered there is a Lincoln and a Ford Winstar with the same identical problem I have. Both cars are manufactured by Ford and in both instances changing the brake master cylinder and the brake booster solved the problem. Like I said, rattles are one thing...kapag brakes na pinaguusapan, it's a totally different story. That cannot be compromised and at this point, how can I put my faith in those "Ford Certified" boneheads when almost all my car's problems I had to fix myself and to think I have no background whatsoever in auto repair........I'd like to think that I am a reasonable person and I think I have a good enough reason to complain about the quality of Ford cars and the service of Ford dealers here.

[rsc6288]

Sorry made a mistake.....I'm not Otep and Oldblue's comments pala that I'm responding to....it's Oldblue and M54 pala.........

[empy]

^ok i got it. you are right then - if the brake pedal starts sinking to the floor without engaging the actual braking then that is a problem - the Ford techs should be knowledgeable enough to know that.

did they at least acknowledge that the sinking of the brake pedal was occurring, and claim that it was "normal"? or could they not replicate the problem? not only are you getting screwed out of your money, if somebody gets hurt or killed because the brakes failed on a unit the Ford dealers insist was ok, then you have a nice multimillion dollar lawsuit on your hands...

[niky]

Try nila magconcentrate sa mga Asian at Euro models para medyo sumigla ang sales. Lalo na yung mga ka-platform ng Volvo at Mazda.

At ayusin naman nila dealerships nila. Kahit ata si aling kikay na nagbebenta ng isaw bibigyan nila ng franchise, eh. Kaya tuloy ang daming bopol na dealerships.

Ugh... Worse than Aling Kikay are the Mang Kikos that are given franchises... "Ser, would you like one Khaos with your Expe?"

-----

Ford should really concentrate on the Eurasian platforms... and they should focus (no pun intended) on the lower end of the market. Some of the cars they've been evaluating for, like, forever would've done okay here... the Ecosport, the Fiesta, etcetera.

One big problem is going full-hog upmarket with the Focus. If they'd released it with the MT for all variants and created a "stripper" version of the 1.8 (like a 1.8 Trend) and limited the luxury line to the 2.0, they would have a better market hold. Instead, they went from the decent-volume Lynx to a more limited market with their current line-up.

Ford just has no more "affordable" cars. Hopefully the Everest and Ranger can keep them propped up until they bring in their diesel sedans. The lack of a local Mondeo or Fusion also hurts sales terribly... but maybe not much... low numbers for cars like the Mazda6, Galant and Sonata show that there isn't much room in a tiny market dominated by the Camry and Accord.

[rsc6288]

The thing is Ford always give you the run-around that everything is normal and alright. Loud rubbery noises heard inside the car was normal to them when the brake pedal was applied and with the car stereo turned on, you can still hear it. They merely responded with "it's really like that and it is inherent in the design of Ford". As a car owner whose car is till under warranty, would that answer fly with you????? When I insisted they had to do something about it, they changed the brake booster. When the driver picked up the car and brought it back, the noise was still there although not as loud as before and the brake still felt like it was sinking lower than it is supposed to. I returned the car and they kept it for a week saying they're going to observe it. As expected, I was given another run around again saying "the car needs further observation". What are they waiting for???? Total brake failure????? They have been giving me that same worn out line for the longest time....same goes when my car was producing the rattling sound underneath.....had to go back several times to the dealership and each and everytime I brought it back, they keep it for a few days and tell me that they are keeping the car for observation. It's either that or they did some "lubrication" underneath the car...I mean if lubrication didn't do the job the 1st time, any smart person would think that there must be something else causing the problem, right???? Guess what!!!! Those boneheads at Ford with a combined IQ of that of an ant didn't get that logic. At this point, it's not about the money anymore, I could jolly well pay for the part myself.....It's about their continued indifference to the concerns of their customers and their continued incompetence..... Like I said, I neither have the patience nor the time to deal to take any legal actions and with the way the justice system works here in the Philippines, it could take years.....I'm just glad that that freaking junk Ford calls an explorer is going to be off my hands soon.........

[niky]

Again, try taking it to another Ford casa. Global is notorious amongst Fordclub members, and many have foresworn going there ever again.

And, does the brake pedal sink further in than it used to? I recall from my drives of previous and current Explorers that the brake pedal is really very mushy and dead-feeling. Brakes aren't a strong point of Explorers and Expeditions (which are so heavy that they eat brakes like crazy on provincial-driven units).

[OTEP]

Ford Explorers are like the police cars of some mountainous American States. even in the Mexican Borders, eto ang gamit ng DEA, Border Police and even ATF. siguro naman, when used in law enforcement, the American govt. thoroughly researched it before they purchased bulks of Ford explorers.

Yep. But they buy them because of the incentives. They wouldn't give a hoot about reliability because a typical U.S. police vehicle spends less than five years on the force before being retired. Recently, Ford's Crown Victoria (one of the most popular cruiser models) was under a lot of heat regarding its tendency to catch fire when rear ended (which apparently happens a lot during pursuits). As long as the cars are [barely] running, ok na sa feds iyon. Never mind squeaks, rattles, falling trim, etc. which a private owner will more than notice since they are actually paying for the vehicle.

We have an Expedition here and it ain't exactly a marvel of engineering. There is a low mounted ECU in the engine compartment, the foglamp wiring harnesses are exposed just like on those Fortuners and Innovas with no wheel covers, the clips break when you try to remove them (e.g. while working on the vehicle).

And when you get a flat you have to get the jack handle in the engine compartment, go under the passenger side dashboard to deactivate the air suspension, go to the luggage compartment to extract the jack and tools, then go under vehicle to retrieve the spare. Kulang na lang umakyat ka sa bubong para talagang naikot mo na yung buong sasakyan. hehehehe.

IMHO, most Fords are engineered to be adequate vehicles. They don't take the time and care to over engineer their vehicles the way Japanese automakers do (especially with their expensive models). No redundant drive belts, no extra bolts holding stuff, no protective covers on vulnerable components, etc. Maybe Ford engineers have yet to see what makes the Toyota Land Cruiser tick.

[JiggeR671]

sir rsc6288... im so sorry to hear that you had to learn the hard and expensive way that some american cars are a piece of crap...they also come hand in hand with poor customer service ...hehehe

and hindi ko lang maintindihan dyan sa dealer mo eh kung bakit ayaw palitan yung pyesa eh warranty naman..pag na solve mo kaya yung problema by having somebody else replace the parts eh i rereimburse ka kaya nila..

FORD...First On Race Day.......to break.....

[rsc6288]

hi niky, did have my driver take the car to 2 other dealers when I 1st wrote this thread........I think Ford Manila and Ford Balintawak...both acknowledge my brake pedal is noisy daw and both considered the problem normal.......Ford Manila even went as far as saying ganun daw talaga mga Ford Expe and Explorers pag tumatagal......So does that mean I shouldn't be complaining????? My point is if it's not there the 1st time, it shouldn't be there at all and it's the dealer's responsibility within the warranty period to keep the vehicle that way especially the dealer where you bought the car from...in my case Ford Global. After the warranty period, it's ok if they tell you that kasi hindi na nila responsibility yun. M54, you mentioned you worked in tha automotive industry before....maybe you can answer this question... Why is there reluctance on the part of the dealer to replace defective parts when the car is under warranty???? Are they liable in any way for parts and labor on cars that are still under warranty????? How does that work????

[Dr.Kamiya]

hi niky, did have my driver take the car to 2 other dealers when I 1st wrote this thread........I think Ford Manila and Ford Balintawak...both acknowledge my brake pedal is noisy daw and both considered the problem normal.......Ford Manila even went as far as saying ganun daw talaga mga Ford Expe and Explorers pag tumatagal......So does that mean I shouldn't be complaining????? ?

I think they're pointing out the difference between a design flaw and something that's broken. The american ford models seem to use a hydraulic cylinder near the cabin actuated by the pedal. As the car gets older, you begin to get air bubbles in the hydraulic fluid, which are released when they become hot and lose solubility. This gives you that annoying squishy sound. It doesn't help matters that this is probably being fed through a rubber hose, which can expand once the hydraulic fluid gets hot, enchancing that mushy feel even more.

Is it broken? No.
It it bad? Yes.

A good reason not to have bought a ford to begin with.

[empy]

M54, you mentioned you worked in tha automotive industry before....maybe you can answer this question... Why is there reluctance on the part of the dealer to replace defective parts when the car is under warranty???? Are they liable in any way for parts and labor on cars that are still under warranty????? How does that work????

disclaimer - i worked in the US, so some of the things may not be applicable. but bottom line it comes down to honoring the terms of the warranty contract you offer when you sell a vehicle.

in the US, dealers are paid by the manufacturer for warranty work, so there's no financial issue for honoring the warranty.

US law has also proven time and time again that if death or injury is caused by inherent flaws or poor quality of vehicle safety equipment (but not damage or poor owner maintenance), the manufacturer can and will be held financially liable for damages. obviously you don't want it to get to that point for the well being of yourself and those around you.

the final issue for them is the negative PR that they will avoid just by simply replacing the damn thing. if your experience makes even one person decide to not buy an Explorer, then they would have lost more than 100x the cost of that master cylinder in lost profits.

their reluctance is truly mystifying. the only thing i can think of is that they truly don't think there is a problem (i.e. within normal operating tolerances of the part) so they can't necessarily 'fix' it. of course, this only applies to your brake problem and not all the rattles and stuff. also, as niky said, there is a difference between a brake pedal that sinks to the floor and one that just has too much 'free play' for one person's taste. not seeing your vehicle for myself, i think you deserve the benefit of the doubt that there is a problem.

but it doesn't appear that they even tried to diagnose the issue. :confused:

one more comment - it also appears that things are getting better for the pinoy auto consumer, and auto companies are beginning to listen to their customers (at least those who scream really loudly). do a search for the tsikot member paulchua for info on his saga and how he was able to get his problem addressed by Isuzu.

[rsc6288]

Like I said, I've owned a lot of cars already in my lifetime....Never have I experience anything close to what I'm goin through with Ford......My experience with all the other cars I have owned have been pleasant overall and I never had to go to the dealers to complain about anything....As I've stated in my previous messages, I'm a reasonable person. The car I replaced the Explorer with was a 2001 Isuzu Trooper. I had to sell the car because it was blowing off too much smoke already apparently something to do with a faulty fuel injection system but fair is fair...The problem didn't show up within the warranty period.....Can't really complain about that because the warranty period expired already when the problem showed up...It wasn't a bad car except for the excessive smoke emission and a few rattles here and there....quite expected for an old car....We used to own a Mercedes S-class in Canada whose computer bogged down and wouldn't change gears when running because it would be kept for months at a time because we keep going back and forth between Canada and the Philippines. We had to spend more than CDN$10,000 to get that fixed.....It is out of warranty already and we had to get that fixed out of our own pocket before we can sell the car.....Fair enough.........My point is it is out of warranty already so it is out of the hands of the dealer and the manufacturer already.......Didn't hear a peep out of me.....Going back to the Ford.........As a rule of thumb for me, if the noise or any abnormal occurence wasn't there the 1st time you got the car, it shouldn't be there when the car is still within the warranty period....It is the dealer's and the manufacturer's repsonsibility to make sure my car stays that way within the warranty period or at lease fix any problems that may arise. To simply dismiss my claim and say it's normal for old Ford expe and explorers to have that noise and leave it at that is simply unacceptable to me. To me, it's like the equivalent of a parent telling everybody to just accept his bad kid because he is simply born that way. It is simply the parent's responsibility to discipline his kid and make sure his kid doesn't get in trouble and to discipline the kid until such time that the kid becomes an adult. I think we all can agree with that. Same goes for car dealers and manufacturers........Within the warranty period, it is the dealer's and the manufacturer's responsibility to maintain the car to its original condition minus the normal wear and tear....Simple as that!!!!! For argument sake, let's say the brake is simply just too spongy for my liking...I should have complained about it way back....Point is it wasn't there...It only showed up now hence I am complaining.....If they have to change the whole brake system to return it to its original condition, they have to do it....It's what is agreed upon in the warranty. After the warranty expires, Fine!!! leave me on my own then and they wouldn't hear anything out of me. I think I am not overstepping my boundaries as a customer to complain about that since my car is still within the warranty period. I am not hard-driving or racing the car or anything like that to subject the car and its parts above its "normal operating tolerances"....Am not asking for car to be replaced or my money back despite the countless defects it has....I'm just simply asking them to fix it......That's it!!!!!

[fireblade]

RSC6288,

I am in contact now with Ford Global, can you give me your plate number so it may still be resolved. I have forwarded to them the link so it may be properly addressed. You may pm me if you want to. Fyi, I am not working for Ford but Global is striving to improve their service and I can attest to this.


Bong Fajardo Jr.

[rsc6288]

Thanks Bong..........too little too late if you ask me......am having my car fixed as we speak, I am having the master cylinder replaced already by someone else already as the part came in last night........Ask them na lang what my plate number is.......I'm sure they know about me already.......Anyway, the new buyer paid me the deposit for the car already...He is picking up the car at the end of the week.........I've had enough BS from those dimwits already......

[rsc6288]

Like I said before, it ain't about the money anymore.....I am not interested in getting any form of compensation from them and we have to resort to this for them to take appropriate actions??????? It's over and done with already.........I wrote this thread just to vent out my frustration and hopefully warn people against investing their hard-earned money on substandard cars which are supposed to be "Built to Last" and putting their trust on dealers which are supposed to address their needs........They just lost one customer right here and hopefully they get their acts together and start to take responsibity for the cars they built and sell...........Ford is junk in my book!!!!!