Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[ersatz0906]

elo again

problem yung mixer na ika-kabit nila sa Honda carb 1.2 (ph12) hindi kasha kasi medlo maliit (mixer fit easily on a corolla carb) we cannot source another mixer for me so we decided to fabricate an adaptor for my carb and the mixer....

questions. meron ba bad effect on doing this?

[ezem]

* chuaed

wala pa yata ganyan dito. i-disguise nyo na lang sir na subwoofer box parang yun ginawa ni paolorenzo sa LPG tank nya sa revo, though wooden box yun di plastic. baka next week ipaganun ko din yun saken, sabay sa pagpapagawa ng box para sa subs.

OT: ganda ng pagkaka solidworks sir ah

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[ezem]

* chuaed

wala pa yata ganyan dito. i-disguise nyo na lang sir na subwoofer box parang yun ginawa ni paolorenzo sa LPG tank nya sa revo, though wooden box yun di plastic. baka next week ipaganun ko din yun saken, sabay sa pagpapagawa ng box para sa subs.

OT: ganda ng pagkaka solidworks sir ah

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[ghosthunter]

mayroon kaya eto dito? or gumagawa? preferably plastic fabrication like the ones selling by campershell's bedliner for pickup trucks.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/388/linerfp2.jpg

para sa nagpakabit ng LPG na torpedo type iyun tank...

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/779...amlinerwh8.jpg

I think three years ago when MACRO exhibited a Ford F150 with Auto-LPG conversion, the tank was located in the flatbed and a large pickup truck "toolbox" was used to cover the tank.

Such toolboxes aren't cheap so you will have to make a hard decision if you would rather use a hardshell or a toolbox to cover up the LPG tank fitted on a pickup truck.

[ghosthunter]

elo again

problem yung mixer na ika-kabit nila sa Honda carb 1.2 (ph12) hindi kasha kasi medlo maliit (mixer fit easily on a corolla carb) we cannot source another mixer for me so we decided to fabricate an adaptor for my carb and the mixer....

questions. meron ba bad effect on doing this?

The mixer relies on the venturi-effect (you can google this so I don't have to explain). If the mixer is too large in diameter (inner diameter of the carb vs the inner diameter of the mixer), the LPG fuel might not mix well enough with the incoming air flow. But if the intake manifold is long enough, it might work.

I assume the mixer is meant for the Corolla 1.3L? If so, the flow rates should be fine with a minor tweak of the main flow knob.

BTW, I do stress that you better have replaced the spark-plugs and air-filter before having your car converted to minimize any headaches tuning and running the car smoothly after conversion. Many of the post-install problems can be traced to sparkplug or airfilter or both.

[ssalonga]

Question.... Is the LPG system compatible to take in compressed natural gas (CNG)? Can it even go to the extreme of loading them BOTH in the same tank?

Unless I'm mistaken, LPG is also a derivative of crude oil, so we're still at the mercy of OPEC.

Just couldn't resist answering this one Straker, its been asked and not really answered. In fact, this is our bone of contention with Mr. Zubiri.....

Yes, LPG is commonly sourced from Crude, and the refinery yield is very small, something like 3 to 5% of the barrel of Crude. But more recent technology has more LPG being "stripped" from Natural Gas, and the yield is much higher, more than 60% per unit volume of Natural Gas which we have in great quantity at Malampaya, in Sabah and Borneo and in many Natural Gas fields all over the world. The supply situation for Natural Gas is very different from Crude- while global crude supplies have already peaked and inevitably in decline, natural gas is still abundant with new reserves being discovered every day. Also, natural gas is more economical to extract and process (not refined), and has little or no sulfurs to cause acid rain.

If you check the Royal Dutch Shell website they have developed a way to make Liquid gasoline from natural gas as a way to increase supply of gasoline in the hope of keeping their prices down!

The reason we still import our LPG today is that we do not yet have a NG stripping plant. I suppose that will come later when our local demand can make such a investment viable. Our NG fields in Palawan and the South China Sea are being developed with other ASEAN countries with the vision to having a NG pipleline from Malaysia and Indonesia passing through Palawan (and the Spratleys siguro) and on to the mainland China market by 2015!!!!

That's in the future, but hopefully soon with Crude prices now reflecting the true supply/demand situation.

On the other hand, Compressed NG doesn't require stripping, just compression to get more BTU per unit area of pipeline and tank space. This is the reason why there are 16 CNG buses already plying the EDSA route today, refilling in Binan were Shell's daughter station refills them from the pipeline from Malampaya through Batangas. In this sense, the future is already here.....

BTW, CNG (Metano in Italian) operates only in spark-ignition engines under the same principles as Propane (LPG) except that the operating pressures from tank to vaporiser is much higher since you will need more cubic units of fuel to get the same energy level as gasoline and LPG since Methane (natural gas) has lower BTU per unit volume than LPG. The hardware is similar (check the Italian autogas manufacturers who make the same equipment for LPG and Methane except for the pressure ratings). As a consequence of the lower energy ratingz and the higher pressures involved, you will also need a larger and heavier tank to get the same mileage as gasoline or LPG, hence mostly utilities trucks and buses are converted to CNG since the weight and bulk makes them impractical for most cars.

Hope that is informative....


best regards,

steve

[kapitan88]

tinirik ako kanina sa highway sa cavite, parang walang supply ng gas umaakyat sa carb ko. pero if i switch to petrol, ok na sya. check ko yung solenoid, nagki-click naman sya whenever I switch, pero talagang parang bitin yung pag deliver. Bigla lang sya namatay for no reason, ganda pa naman ng pagka tune ngayon. Check ko na din yung gauge sa tank, almost full pa level ko. ano kaya problem? pasyal ako tomorow sa greenfuel to check, baka solenoid lang nga ulit.

[ghosthunter]

SiViTeC - 1995 Honda Civic ESi (emulator/venturi GreenFuel) - as of July 27, 2008

hmmm, I think that was the Civic I saw at Greenfuel on saturday. Donut tank.

[altec]

I've been trying to catch up with the different kinds of LPG setups but seems that I am still at a loss. Have seen in offers of carb, efi, and sgi. but here at tsikot, I also read about closed, open loops, etc. Then the issues of adaptor requirements for some kits to refill at other stations. Then sgi systems that is european, and italian, where the price differs greatly. Can anyone explain or direct me to any reading material on the different systems? Or can anyone suggest?

I was comparing the prices of Naiads and Autogas systems here in Cebu, ang layo ng mga presyo. Might be more due to the kind of kits they carry?

For example, for their carb units, autogas offers 18k less 15% spot cash, while Naiads is 24K. EFI is autogas 20K less 15%, and Naiads 28,500. SGI systems Naiads charges 48K for a 4cyl, while Autogas has two: European is 38K less 5%, and Italian is 52K less 5%. Ang layo ng mga presyo.

[ghosthunter]

I've been trying to catch up with the different kinds of LPG setups but seems that I am still at a loss. Have seen in offers of carb, efi, and sgi. but here at tsikot, I also read about closed, open loops, etc. Then the issues of adaptor requirements for some kits to refill at other stations. Then sgi systems that is european, and italian, where the price differs greatly. Can anyone explain or direct me to any reading material on the different systems? Or can anyone suggest?

I was comparing the prices of Naiads and Autogas systems here in Cebu, ang layo ng mga presyo. Might be more due to the kind of kits they carry?

For example, for their carb units, autogas offers 18k less 15% spot cash, while Naiads is 24K. EFI is autogas 20K less 15%, and Naiads 28,500. SGI systems Naiads charges 48K for a 4cyl, while Autogas has two: European is 38K less 5%, and Italian is 52K less 5%. Ang layo ng mga presyo.

For similar auto-lpg kit types, the price difference is usually because of the country of origin. Example, italian kits tend to be more expensive because of the higher exchange rate and distance shipped as compared to kits from china, korea or even turkey.

As for the auto-lpg kit type, there is generally three types:
1. venturi-mixer open-loop
2. venturi-mixer open-loop with emulator
3. SGI

A sub-type is the venturi-mixer closed-loop with emulator which is supposed be to somewhere inbetween (2) and (3) in terms of cost, fuel mileage and performance benefits. But since only EROOM is the only one selling such systems, it's usually included with the (2) classification.

As for the "cash discounts", I think it's a positive move if they also offer credit card or check payment options. Unfortunately it simply makes deciding (based on price, features, country of origin, etc) a bit more complex.

Personally unless you are deciding to buy a kit, don't bother yourself with the exact pricing of the kits. Just focus more on the technical details and advantages and disadvantages of each type of kit.

[ezem]

A sub-type is the venturi-mixer closed-loop with emulator which is supposed be to somewhere inbetween (2) and (3) in terms of cost, fuel mileage and performance benefits. But since only EROOM is the only one selling such systems, it's usually included with the (2) classification.

sir GH, i think Ambient has closed loop system also using Tartarini kit.

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[altec]

GH,

Am looking at installing on our company's 10 units suzuki multicabs, all using carb system. But the reason why I am also looking at the others, I am trying to see if it is worth it recommending for the altis, and even my brother's xtrail and expedition in manila. According to naiads, the altis needs to use the sgi, not the efi, even if the altis is an efi engine. With the price difference so wide, sometimes I have to ask: whats the catch with the cheaper? Or is the more expensive ones really superior?

[tediber]

yehey tapos na conversion sa altis ko heheheh kaso color coding ako ngayon kaya bukas ko pa pick up in hehehehe .... i'm thinking why buy/build an expensive cover for it ? nasa loob naman ng trunk yan e hehehhee ..... i'm thinking og just covering it with the same carpet fabric as the one that covers the trunk ..... specially since the tank itself is pretty tough .... only concern is safety i guess wether covering it up could increase temperatures.

[1997]

Kakakuha lang ng brother ko ng Space wagon niya with LPG... may na notice lang kami na pag nag switch from gas to LPG may sound na parang may screw driver na tumamasa tank... parang "Tong" or gong... medjo malakas din siya...

[ghosthunter]

GH,

Am looking at installing on our company's 10 units suzuki multicabs, all using carb system. But the reason why I am also looking at the others, I am trying to see if it is worth it recommending for the altis, and even my brother's xtrail and expedition in manila. According to naiads, the altis needs to use the sgi, not the efi, even if the altis is an efi engine. With the price difference so wide, sometimes I have to ask: whats the catch with the cheaper? Or is the more expensive ones really superior?

Er... based on my last price survey of NAIADSS, they are still more expensive than some of the other auto-lpg conversion companies like GREENFUEL, GREENGAS & EROOM.

Anyway, Corolla Altis will run with a venturi-mixer system but the SGI kit is better for that car. The SGI system offers better fuel mileage than the venturi-mixer kit. It also offers less engine power loss and less maintenance too. A venturi-mixer system requires periodic maintenance of the air filter to maintain optimum operation.

As for actually recommending your cars to be converted, depends on you. Converting to auto-lpg will save you money but it will void any warranty you still have on the car. The tank will also take up some space, might it be the cylinder or donut tank. If you plan to sell the car soon, best NOT to convert.

[ghosthunter]

saw the pictures of the "disguised" lpg tank, di kaya risky yun? lpg is usually odorless. artificial odor is placed with the lpg so that if may leak, malalaman agad. if the lpg tank is concealed / covered, di kaya ma-delay or ma-diffuse yung odor so that you might not be able to detect if may leak cya?

No, it's not risky. If you can't smell the odor in the car, it also means there is no LPG gas in the cabin. The design of the auto-lpg system vents any leaked gas to the under side of the car to be dispersed into the surrounding area.

If you want to check if your multi-valve is leaking, simply open the multi-valve housing and poke your nose in for a whiff.

[ghosthunter]

Kakakuha lang ng brother ko ng Space wagon niya with LPG... may na notice lang kami na pag nag switch from gas to LPG may sound na parang may screw driver na tumamasa tank... parang "Tong" or gong... medjo malakas din siya...

The "TONG" sound is the solenoid switching open for the LPG to flow at the tank side.

BTW, why did your brother choose a cylinder tank for the Space Wagon? A Donut tank would give him a more useful cargo area.

[ghosthunter]

yehey tapos na conversion sa altis ko heheheh kaso color coding ako ngayon kaya bukas ko pa pick up in hehehehe .... i'm thinking why buy/build an expensive cover for it ? nasa loob naman ng trunk yan e hehehhee ..... i'm thinking og just covering it with the same carpet fabric as the one that covers the trunk ..... specially since the tank itself is pretty tough

The cover simply makes it look better whenever you open the trunk. It's mostly a personal choice and based on the owner's taste if they want a bare tank or a custom false wall, etc to cover it up.

.... only concern is safety i guess wether covering it up could increase temperatures.

Shouldn't be a problem. It would take a car-fire to make the tank react and start purging it's contents.

[ghosthunter]

sir GH, i think Ambient has closed loop system also using Tartarini kit.

thanks for the info.

[tediber]

hehhehe oki thanks ..... takpan ko na lang carpet material .... tipid mode e.