Battle of the Transmissions: M/T vs. A/T

[timming_gear]

Medyo odd nga. Most of the time it is the driver's fault.. Gas ba Fort nila?

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Diesel lang ang manual variant ng Fortuner

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[GTi]

Yes nag tataka rin kame sabay kami pumanik yung innova rin namin na M/T walang bitin sa Baguio. by that time bago pa yung mga sskyan nila at casa maintained naman. Yung isa don nag be break in lang sa Baguio na disappoint din siya sa Fortuner nya simula non hindi na ipinanik ng Baguio.

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Well, since mechanically exactly the same lang naman ang 2.5 na Innova at Fortuner, sa sasakyan lang niya talaga ang problema. Factory defect kaya?

I have driven 2 MT cars to Baguio. Both are considered "makupad" cars. There's the Revo diesel and also an Isuzu IPV. Makupad sa highway pero hinding hindi ako ipinahiya sa akyatan. Never even had to turn off A/C. So really, I'd say a vehicle with 80hp or so can already confidently go up to Baguio via Kennon Road, still with aircon on, at a brisk pace. [emoji38]

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[jut703]

The Fort is heavier than the Innova by about 150 kg, but that's not the biggest reason why these MT Fort drivers had a hard time going up Baguio. I've driven heavier and weaker cars up slopes that are steeper than Baguio's.

The usual reason why MT drivers feel their diesel car is too weak is because they don't compensate for turbo lag.

A heavy car with a full load on an incline will be greatly affected by turbo lag (usually anything below 1500 rpm for turbodiesels). To compensate, you have to ride the clutch a little and make sure to launch above 1500 rpm from an inclined standstill. Most drivers simply release the clutch as they would on a flat road, which will obviously result in bogging down if done on an incline.

If you would observe an automatic in the same situation, the car would also launch at a higher rpm. The transmission is smart enough to know that the engine doesn't generate enough torque at low revs to have the necessary momentum. Most people don't notice since they just step on the pedal like they always do and it's the car that adjusts.

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[suysuy]

Ive seen a manual current gen montero that stalled while going uphill. Mga 60kph ata takbo pero biglang tumirik. Driver error ata. Mukhang napaaga ang kambya tapos uphill pa and turbo lag. the current gen montero's peak torque is unusually high at 2500 rpm kaya siguro namatay.

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[montro]

The driver needs to floor harder the gas pedal of 3rd gen mt montero in uphill to get enough turbo power in acceleration. The driver miscalculated his suv ability.

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[GTi]

The Fort is heavier than the Innova by about 150 kg, but that's not the biggest reason why these MT Fort drivers had a hard time going up Baguio. I've driven heavier and weaker cars up slopes that are steeper than Baguio's.

The usual reason why MT drivers feel their diesel car is too weak is because they don't compensate for turbo lag.

A heavy car with a full load on an incline will be greatly affected by turbo lag (usually anything below 1500 rpm for turbodiesels). To compensate, you have to ride the clutch a little and make sure to launch above 1500 rpm from an inclined standstill. Most drivers simply release the clutch as they would on a flat road, which will obviously result in bogging down if done on an incline.

If you would observe an automatic in the same situation, the car would also launch at a higher rpm. The transmission is smart enough to know that the engine doesn't generate enough torque at low revs to have the necessary momentum. Most people don't notice since they just step on the pedal like they always do and it's the car that adjusts.

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Agree with the lag on inclines. When I drove a relative's 2011 Carnival to Baguio, from a full stop it would actually dip if I didn't press on the throttle quickly enough. I think it was more the throttle response that was to blame than the engine response.

When we got a 2010 Carnival, I had a Unichip Q4 installed. Besides the power increase, throttle response was greatly improved to near instantaneous. I have yet to bring it to Baguio though.

But then again, the Revo has no turbo at all. And the IPV has a turbo that probably blows weaker than my nose. [emoji23] What gives?

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[jut703]

But then again, the Revo has no turbo at all. And the IPV has a turbo that probably blows weaker than my nose. [emoji23] What gives?

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Simple - because no turbo, no lag.

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[StockEngine]

Ayaw nila magdownshift? 3000rpm is high?

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[GTi]

Simple - because no turbo, no lag.

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Does this mean that during the "lag period" the turbocharged engine is actually worse off than a similarly sized NA engine?

With the Revo, I just have to release the clutch and it creeps, no matter the incline. I actually have to make more "timpla" with the IPV.

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[12vdc]

^ Old school diesels doesn't have fuel cut-off mechanism at very low rpm like those on crdi plus they have low gearing. Newer CRDI's you have to race the engine to keep the rpm, trans ratio is geared for fuel efficiency.