Tsikot Sport Vehicle Project

[drey]

Given a 4AGE 20v can produce around 160HP... that is a 320HP all wheel drive drag car. Add nitrous oxide to both engines for 50HP each and you'll end up with a 420HP twin engine drag car. hehe

I'd have to guess you're mad writing this...

In the same way, what would it take away from a Pinoy sports car if you base the design from the already successful Elise? I didn't say do an exact copy/replica of the Elise, I simply said base your design specifications from the Elise and develop it from there. That way you are a solid platform to start your car from.

Did you even take into consideration what I was saying and refering to? The Lotus Elise's chassis is made from extruded aluminum which were riveted & bonded together into a tub shaped chassis similar to a monocoque design. Given this, I still suggested a tubular space frame design as my choice because it would give you ease of construction, especially for prototyping and high strength to weight ratio against other conventional construction techniques.

But in the end, it is your car and your choice.

Well, I was merely pointing out that you dont need a Pinoy designed engine to make it a Pinoy Sports car.

[dprox]

Housekeeping Announcement #1:
Please be advised that all posts on 3-WHEELERS have been moved to the "3-Wheelers" thread at http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39206.
Thanks.
Ref: http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=29

[donbuggy]

From http://www.autoindustriya.com/yabbse...sg%25msg_id%25

"way back in the 80's there was a company named conge cars that designed and manufactured cars from the ground up. binky victa was the name of the guy behind it. he made pick-ups, vans, sports coupes. he even had a mid-engine model named the aniano. his front-mid/rear drive sports coupe was also used in slalom races back then and was very competitive. it was also raced in rally events which were big at that time. all his designs used tubular space frames with fiberglass body shells. i remember that the owner of gene's bistro owned 2 of conge's sports coupes."

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I remember seeing those Conge cars at the Transhow and I was amazed at what Binky Victa was able to do on a limited budget. There was one fiberglass bodied minivan type vechicle that had aerodynamic styling (and this was a time when AUVs were boxy). Even today, this Conge minivan is miles ahead of the MVPMAP PhUV).

Maybe some Tsikoteers should contact Binky to learn about designing and building cars. And pay homage to this forgotten Filipino pioneer who dared to dream big but failed.

[drey]

sir don buggy...

how can we contact him/her?

[donbuggy]

Sorry, I have no idea where Binky Victa is right now.

[ghosthunter]

...Can you see where I am pointing to? The only reason why you want "pinoy" is simply to satisfy one's ego...

Maybe you should ease up a bit kiddo...baka stressed-out ka lang sa trabaho mo?!?

Or did I offend you before and wanted to retailate and insult my opinion/thinking?

I am sorry if I have gotten to a level that might have insulted "Wildthing" regarding this thread. But all I want to point out that it will NOT be against his "pinoy" theme if he would base his design from another car.

I would also want to make it known that I have been part of a vehicle design team and we built two very different running prototype cars in the past and that my experience there might be of some value to future projects.

[ghosthunter]

I'd have to guess you're mad writing this...

Actually it was a half serious message. Not mad at all. It was based on what I have read before in Compact Sports Car magazine where a guy built a twin engined car. He even turbo charged both engines and used methanol as fuel of choice.

Anyway, the proposed vehicle would be a demonstration vehicle and not something practical for the road.

Well, I was merely pointing out that you dont need a Pinoy designed engine to make it a Pinoy Sports car.

Nor would it need to have a pinoy designed chassis as a basis. The fact that you can use the chassis of a second generation Toyota MR2 as a pattern will still qualify it as a Pinoy sports car.

[niky]

Why not make a pure drag car one-off with two engines? :D

One engine would be a 4AGE 20v with a matching tranny from a RWD car and the other is another 4AGE 20v from a FWD. Make a custom chassis to hang both engines and trannies... I assume an automatic for both ends would be the logical choice for simplicity and a custom linkage for the gas/throttle control.

Given a 4AGE 20v can produce around 160HP... that is a 320HP all wheel drive drag car. Add nitrous oxide to both engines for 50HP each and you'll end up with a 420HP twin engine drag car. hehe

That's extremely doable... and you don't even need a RWD 4AGE. Since you're putting two engines in, you put two FWD engines (both AT), one in front and one in the back.

Honda did this way back in the 80's. A little known project called CRX2. It was a CRX with two B16s (not sure, but I think it was)... it was a mad thing, really... with the second engine and the fuel tanks taking up the entire back half of the car. The reviewer recounted at some point the reactions of the gas boy when he asked him to fill up the other gas tank.

Having both engines mated to automatics made it deviously simple... you could attach both engines to the same shifter and gas pedal with no problem.

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From donbuggy's quoted thread:

http://www.kitcarmag.com/featuredveh...ered_roadster/

This is the kind of thing I was talking about. A tube frame sports car with this... or even with a mere 110 hp 1.6 cut out of a wrecked compact. I'd estimate a tube-frame vehicle with an engine like that, with the requisite breathing mods, could do 0-100 km/h in just seven seconds.

The fiberglass would be the last part to put into place. All we'd need to do is construct the tube-frame, source a compact car front-cut and extra suspension components, and start testing for weight balance, handling balance, suspension set-ups and brake balancing.

I'm betting that even the pathetic engine, brakes and suspension from a Corolla or Sentra taxi would be spectacular in a tube-frame car, and the whole thing could be put together for around half-a-million or less using surplus parts.

[dprox]

Just some observations and suggestions to keep this thread focused and moving:

(1) ON FIRMING UP THE DESIGN BRIEF. I sense that the Design Brief needs more content and firmness. This whole project depends on that. It also helps avoid circuitous and contentious posts. Here's what a simple Design Brief looks like - http://www.wheels.australiandesign.o..._designers.asp

Why don't wildthing, ghosthunter and niky formulate a decision flowchart (or draft a questionnaire) that can lead to a firm Design Brief, and allow items and issues to be settled by participants within the forum/thread. There's no hurry, is there? That's doable. And that's opensourcing already. Besides, it provides a great opportunity for others to lurk-n-learn along the way.
If you want to fast-track this process, put in the specs already, and post the tentative brief for reactions. I suggest an EB, if you guys are really serious.

(2) ON PLATFORM AND BODY STYLE CONCEPTS. It's not really possible to finalize body style and rolling chassis Concepts without the Design Brief. However, there is no harm in studying existing styles and rolling chassis.

In the meantime, Tsikoteers are free to post their preferences, findings, or suggestions. And of course, preliminary/concept sketches. Wildthing himself mentioned "a miniature Koenigsegg" in an earlier post. Would your vision of "Alamid" (=fox) approximate these?




wildthing, how mini is your idea of miniature? Perhaps you can start quantifying. The science is called Ergonomics.

Take a look at the Formula Zero.



Would that be mini-enough (sans the Hydrogen engine, of course)?

(3) FABRICATOR'S SHORT CUT. To really short-cut the process, as ghosthunter suggested, you can improve on one of the best existing chassis designs. Any improvement or variation (of the Elyse's frame) by Filipinos makes it Filipino enough, IMO. I don't see any IP issues in transforming a tub chassis to a space frame.

A good enthusiast's reference is "Chassis Engineering" by Herb Adams. But even that I think requires engineering (math) ability to translate to proto. It would be good to have an chassis engineer on the team if you're going to do that, or you will soon discover that the short cut is not that short.

Fact is, there is no short cut to designing a car. Unless perhaps you're a maverick Filipino with an instinct for it.

(4) MODELER'S SCALE-UP. Another approach is to study the chassis of scale model RC cars that approximate the vehicle you have in mind, scale it up to the ergonomic dimensions, make the necessary modifications, analyzing it for strength and stability. No shortcuts here either. You will still need an engineer or a seasoned fabricator on your team to optimize strength, weight, steering, brakes, etc. ...

Fact is, there is no way to build a car without teamwork.

[dprox]

Oops, sorry wildthing, I forgot you specified 2 pax.

This is available from China, and is classified as a go-kart.
Looks more like a dune buggy, though.
http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads/se...kart.html#none