Tsikot Sport Vehicle Project

[dprox]

I was thinking of the similarity of a low two-seat convertible Tableta to the 1958 Austin Healy Sprite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin-Healey_Sprite

Yup. Nice find, don!
Wouldn't it be just great for big Tableta to have a little bro who speaks the same visual "language"?
Just a thought. Don't let the suggestion stifle other possibilities.
:jump2:
Keep sketching, people!
Otherwise, post what you think is nice, and explain why.

[ghosthunter]

i'd like to suggest:

- 2 seater
- 4 cylinder engine (practical for philippine condition) 1.3 to 1.6L (practical fuel consumption)
- race (drag, slalom, auto-cross, drift capable) and street capable (of course with suspension tuning)
mid-engine design (perhaps)

i have an idea of a "miniture" konigsegg-type sport - hehehe

TSV (tsikot super vehicle)

I think the vehicle in mind is the Lotus Elise.





2 seats - check!
4 banger 1.6 liter engine - check!
race and street capable - check!
mid engine layout - check!


Ok, project done.... Next!!

[ghosthunter]

thanks dprox for the info.

Actually, I also would like to make this some sort of an "OPEN SOURCE" sports car design. I wouldn't care if the big boys in the car industry will copy/imitate the work.

The basic concept of the "concept" is in error. You might be able to do open source design in computers but you cannot do the same thing in cars. You have to focus a car's purpose and design to achieve it's goals, otherwise this will come out as another "do-everything" vehicle which cannot do any of them well.

[wildthing]

I think tsikot guys will do a better design than the Elise

[wildthing]

...

nice hot hatch... can you make a 2 door version of that? and probably a side profile view?

[ghosthunter]

I think tsikot guys will do a better design than the Elise

yup... buy an Elise and install TSIKOT logo at the back.

[wildthing]

this is going to be the design structure of the insides....i mean, i plan to pattern it here:

[ghosthunter]

this is going to be the design structure of the insides....i mean, i plan to pattern it here:

You are planning to do a monocoque chassis design? Maybe if you have some spare carbon fiber sheets to mold into that shape but with more realistic manufacturing capabilities (and budgets) a tubular space frame design is better and would result in a more affordable vehicle.

http://www.marcotraverso.it/spacefra...testarossa.jpg

[ghosthunter]

I think tsikot guys will do a better design than the Elise

Realistically, why start from scratch when a very well tuned vehicle is available? Why not build upon the Elise and see where that will get you?

[wildthing]

I think wildthing's design brief calls for a FOUR wheeler, and is codenamed "ALAMID"...I think interested parties might be confused...

... Let's assume that the Alamid Project will be taken all the way to scale modelling stage -- unless interested parties express a desire to fund a prototype.
....

thanks sir dprox

I will definitely go with the modelling stage....I get a high doing this type of things - scale models is one of my passions/past time.

I might even fund the prototype....who knows baka umulan ng pera this year....hehehehe

[wildthing]

Realistically, why start from scratch when a very well tuned vehicle is available? Why not build upon the Elise and see where that will get you?

realistically.... the Elise is not available in the philippines and is wasn't designed by a pinoy

plus...I really don't find it very attractive - in a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the highest) the Elise (for me) is just a 6/7 range type of ride.

[wildthing]

You are planning to do a monocoque chassis design?

Yes

...tubular space frame design is better and would result in a more affordable vehicle.

I will probably be putting a rollcage instead....on a monocoque chassis

[ghosthunter]

realistically.... the Elise is not available in the philippines

But you can get plans, designs or specifications for one. You don't need the actual car.

and is wasn't designed by a pinoy

So what? Most of the cars we drive were not designed by pinoy. Even those so called pinoy designed vehicles are just built up upon the works of others.

Why design a brand new wheel when simply upgrading the existing design will achieve the goals and maybe beyond? That is how we have achieve most of our modern goals, building upon the works of other who have gone before us.

If building a car from scratch is what a "pinoy" sports car is to you, then why would you be using an existing engine? You should also design and built your own engine to power your "pinoy" sports car. The same goes with all the other parts in your "pinoy" sports car. No cheating by buying off the shelf parts.

Can you see where I am pointing to? The only reason why you want "pinoy" is simply to satisfy one's ego.

plus...I really don't find it very attractive - in a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the highest) the Elise (for me) is just a 6/7 range type of ride.

If the Elise's external shape or finish doesn't appeal to you, it is secondary to what lies under the skin. You can finish the Elise in pink shagpile carpeting and teddybear alloy wheels if that is what you prefer, but the Elise's design is as close as you can get to your "requirements and specifications" without having to go to kit cars.

[ghosthunter]

I will probably be putting a rollcage instead....on a monocoque chassis

Won't simply building a tubular space frame chassis accomplish the same goals with better rigidity and overall integrity than bonding a rollcage on a monocoque chassis?

[wildthing]

but if i do an Elise... then it wouldn't be TSV Alamid... get my point?!?

i raised this issue/thread of the TSV project for Tsikoteers who would want to share in their dreams and probably see it (their design) on the road...

[drey]

If building a car from scratch is what a "pinoy" sports car is to you, then why would you be using an existing engine? You should also design and built your own engine to power your "pinoy" sports car. The same goes with all the other parts in your "pinoy" sports car. No cheating by buying off the shelf parts.

Sir, in my honest opinion...

A Pinoy made/designed engine is not an ingredient to call ALAMID a PINOY sports car. Heck, if this were the ingredients, British cars will never be called "British" since they use Buick (American V8) engines in their cars before.

And the parts, it doesnt need to be made here in the Philippines as well so that it will be called Pinoy. British cars like Bentley were half Volkswagen (German), Ferrari suspensions were developed by Americans but still Ferrari cars are Italian. Ford, some of their cars were designed in Europe and by Japanese Mazda but still its dubbed American.

What about the Pagani Zonda? Its made out of different parts from different cars... But still its German. -> Correct me on this one, since I am not so sure.

[wildthing]

thanks sir drey for sharing the same point of view as mine.

[niky]

I think, though, that GH has a point about using a tubular spaceframe. This will help make the vehicle stronger, and easier to manufacture. That's why many kit-cars and sports cars use it.

A monocoque would derive its strength from the chassis backbone... looking at the naked Lotus up there, it seems that local people can do it, but the cost would be more than a comparable tubular design... more, that is, if you take the time to ensure that the chassis is as rigid as possible.

We have local fabricators who are already very good at doing tubular chassis work (for use in drag and drift vehicles)... my idea of this project would be to design a chassis that would be easily customizable to use various drivetrains.

I think a mid-engine vehicle, with an engine bay designed to take most four cylinder front-wheel drive engines (a la Atom, but of course, different), a tubular chassis with a bespoke front suspension (or, cheaper yet, mounting for standard McPherson struts) and a fiberglass body is quite doable. I'd do it myself if I had the money.

You might want to talk more with Mike Black (I don't know if he still hangs on Nissanbayan) who was talking of doing a Caterham Super 7 last year or Hernan Mapua of C!, who built his own Super 7 from scratch (except the engine), even making his own front wishbones.

This is not for the Super 7 design specs, mind you, but to find out how much the fabrication of suspension pieces costs and to brainstorm how this can be done economically.

A mid-rear car would have the benefit of being able to use the full front-end of, say, a Corolla or a Civic (for commonness and availability), including struts and arms for the rear. What you'd need to design, then, would be the front end suspension and cage.

[ghosthunter]

Why not make a pure drag car one-off with two engines? :D

One engine would be a 4AGE 20v with a matching tranny from a RWD car and the other is another 4AGE 20v from a FWD. Make a custom chassis to hang both engines and trannies... I assume an automatic for both ends would be the logical choice for simplicity and a custom linkage for the gas/throttle control.

Given a 4AGE 20v can produce around 160HP... that is a 320HP all wheel drive drag car. Add nitrous oxide to both engines for 50HP each and you'll end up with a 420HP twin engine drag car. hehe

[ghosthunter]

Sir, in my honest opinion...

A Pinoy made/designed engine is not an ingredient to call ALAMID a PINOY sports car. Heck, if this were the ingredients, British cars will never be called "British" since they use Buick (American V8) engines in their cars before.

And the parts, it doesnt need to be made here in the Philippines as well so that it will be called Pinoy. British cars like Bentley were half Volkswagen (German), Ferrari suspensions were developed by Americans but still Ferrari cars are Italian. Ford, some of their cars were designed in Europe and by Japanese Mazda but still its dubbed American.

What about the Pagani Zonda? Its made out of different parts from different cars... But still its German. -> Correct me on this one, since I am not so sure.

thanks sir drey for sharing the same point of view as mine.

In the same way, what would it take away from a Pinoy sports car if you base the design from the already successful Elise? I didn't say do an exact copy/replica of the Elise, I simply said base your design specifications from the Elise and develop it from there. That way you are a solid platform to start your car from.

Did you even take into consideration what I was saying and refering to? The Lotus Elise's chassis is made from extruded aluminum which were riveted & bonded together into a tub shaped chassis similar to a monocoque design. Given this, I still suggested a tubular space frame design as my choice because it would give you ease of construction, especially for prototyping and high strength to weight ratio against other conventional construction techniques.

But in the end, it is your car and your choice.