China Corona Virus Outbreak

[Monseratto]

Hotels in GCQ, MGCQ areas now allowed to operate at full capacity

[dr. d]

Doc may I know what is antigen and how does it relate to antibodies? and what is the difference between rapid antibody and swab antigen I know that rapid antibody detects your anitbodies that your body produces in response to an infection but have no knowledge on antigens.

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first off, these two statements say it all for covid:
a negative antibody test should not be equated with absence or presence of the virus in the body.
neither should a positive antibody test be equated with the presence or absence of the virus in the body.

"ANTIGEN" refers to the virus itself or parts of it.
a number of PCR tests are designed to detect the spike protein, the nucleic acid, or other components of the covid virus. the test material is usually from a (painful) a swab of the patient's posterior nasopharyngeal wall.
because of the intricacies of the testing procedure, detection of covid virus antigens is traditionally slow, requiring several hours of table work.
a problem we now realize, is that even as the virus is already dead or non-viable, some of these virus components may be still around, and might detected by the test, resulting in a "false positive" result.
there are more rapid tests emerging now, needing 30-60 minutes only. there are even the more convenient rapid saliva tests that are promising to be potentially as good as the traditional gold-standard PCR.

when our immune system detects the virus, they manufacture "ANTIBODIES".
antibodies are proteins that correspond to the virus. they are very specific, akin to the specificity of keys to their padlocks.
but... just like keys and padlocks... sometimes, just sometimes, another key might be able to open its un-intended padlock. the so-called "cross-reaction".
(OT. do we remember the 80s, where it was rumored that a lancer key could open one in eight lancers in the parking lot? heh heh.)
antibody tests are much easier to effect. by the nature of the test, they are rapid, needing just minutes instead of hours.
we are familiar with antibody testing, as many laboratory tests are based on them... pregnancy test.. typhoid test.. hepatitis test.. dengue test..

even now,
effectivity of experimental vaccine action is partially dependent on level of antibody induced in the subject's blood.

"rapid test" used to be antibody test only, because the gold-standard traditional PCR test is slow.
but there are now "rapid PCR tests" in the pipeline.
we have but to ask, what it is we are getting.

btw,
"RT-PCR" does not mean rapid test PCR. RT-PCR still is the traditional PCR we read about. it means, "Reverse Transcription PCR", which is just a lengthier, more descriptive name of what the test is all about.

so,
why is there confusion between antibodies, antigens, and the presence of disease?
ganito yan.

antigen is the microbe itself, virus or bacterium, or parts of it.
a positive result means that the virus or bacterium, or parts of it, is still in the body.
normally, this means, active disease. "may sakit kah, at nakakahawa kah."

if the antibody test is done and it is reactive ("positive"),
it means the body has antibodies, because it has been exposed to the virus or bacterium. remember also, that vaccination can give the same result.
hindi nakakahawa kung antibodies lang.

problems in patient status (not infected, infected, recovered) arise because:
1. there is a time lag between infection, recovery, and antibody level;
2. antigen-antibody curves can overlap, providing no 100% clear delineation among the patient statuses.

in a study done by the pgh folks,
it showed that the predictive value of antibody testing for the presence of the virus, is a measely 20%.

to re-iterate,
a positive or negative antibody test result should not be equated with absence or presence of the virus.

[uls]

I see but we still have rapid testing.... I just don't get the point why do we need still to have rapid testing then if positive IGM then we go on swab antigen. We can go directly go to swab antigen test right? How much does swab antigen cost is it not costly as pcr? I dont know the brand that we use because It is in the other building and havent went through swab antigen test myself.

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yes rapid test din naman ang antigen test

pareho lang sa rapid antibody test -- ilan minuto lang ang result

price halos pareho lang sa antibody test siguro mas mahal konte

malayo sa price ng PCR

[uls]

Deestone,

antibodies are produced by the body to fight the virus

kaya ginamit ang antibody test to see if you're infected -- IGM = infected, still fighting

IGG = finished fighting

ang problema kasi pag newly infected ka di agad meron antibodies

it takes days to develop IGM so madami false negative (wala antibodies pero may virus)

so ngayon mas prefer ang antigen test coz it detects the virus directly

ang problema naman sa rapid antigen test di sya kasing sensitive ng PCR so if you have low level of virus maari di madetect ng rapid antigen test

[uls]

also nakakainis din ung positive ka sa IGG tapos i-quarantine ka and ipa-swab test pa (PCR)

eh IGG na nga magaling ka na dapat di ka na i-quarantine and di na kailangan i-swab di ka na nakakahawa

kaya fallen out of favor ang rapid antibody test

[Monseratto]

PH active cases looks like it got zapped compared to other active chart...

[dr. d]

here's a thought.
are all antibodies, protective? what if the antibodies are mere marker antibodies?
do all covid patients develop antibodies?
covid is a novel disease.
more research needed...

[111prez]

Hmmm, China and Brazil in the same sentence and together on the results of the trials somehow does not give me confidence on the efficacy of the vaccine

[Monseratto]

Human Challenge

[dr. d]

Human Challenge

what is the compensation package?
do my heirs get a handsome lifetime (theirs, not mine!) pension?
heh heh.

[Wh1stl3r]

Modern day heroes. Maybe royalty for vaccine proceeds?

Hopefully more than what lab rats get.

[dr. d]

Modern day heroes. Maybe royalty for vaccine proceeds?

Hopefully more than what lab rats get.

if they gave the "volunteer" cheese on demand...

i remember a colleague, who proposed his compensation package.
according to scuttlebutt... upon initial reading, administration initially agreed, as it was literally "cents per job".
... until someone found out just how many jobs they were talking about.

whistler sir,
what's the story behind the rat knitting a dna strand?

[Wh1stl3r]

if they gave the "volunteer" cheese on demand...

i remember a colleague, who proposed his compensation package.
according to scuttlebutt... upon initial reading, administration initially agreed, as it was literally "cents per job".
... until someone found out just how many jobs they were talking about.

whist,
what's the story behind the rat knitting a dna strand?

It's a monument for the lab rats doc. Mice, to be more accurate.
Monument to the laboratory mouse - Wikipedia

[Monseratto]

World'''s COVID vaccine testing ground calls China candidate safest, most-promising | Fortune

“The first results of the clinical study conducted in Brazil prove that among all the vaccines tested in the country, CoronaVac is the safest, the one with the best and most promising rates,” São Paulo Gov. João Doria told reporters in Brazil on Monday.

Doria’s comments are especially striking since Brazil has more extensive and varied exposure to COVID-19 vaccine candidates than other countries. Brazil is conducting Phase III trials for at least five of the 10 vaccine makers that have reached the final stage of testing. In addition to Sinovac, Brazil is the site of large, human trials of COVID-19 vaccines developed by American vaccine makers Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer, the U.K.’s AstraZeneca, and China's Sinopharm. Brazil's struggles to contain COVID-19—it has the third-highest number of cases globally—have made it fertile ground for vaccine makers that need high rates of infection to adequately test their candidates.

No volunteers in Sinovac’s trials experienced severe adverse reactions to the vaccine; 20% reported mild pain from the injection site; and less than 15% said they had headaches, nausea, or tiredness after receiving the shot, Covas told reporters on Monday.

Covas and Doria did not provide specifics on how Sinovac's candidate stacked up against rivals; their statements represent the first preliminary result from any Phase III trial of a COVID-19 vaccine.

The Brazilian authorities said the Sinovac data indicated that the vaccine provided protective antibodies among volunteers, but a final determination of CoronaVac’s effectiveness will come once the 13,000-volunteer trial is complete, which could occur as early as mid-November.

[dr. d]

It's a monument for the lab rats doc. Mice, to be more accurate.
Monument to the laboratory mouse - Wikipedia

nice read.
thanks.
heavy meaning pala yang monumentong yan. from russia pa...!

alam ba ni bruiser yan? (blondes movie...)
heh heh.

[uls]

World'''s COVID vaccine testing ground calls China candidate safest, most-promising | Fortune

di dahil sa pro-china

i think mas safe ang traditional old fashioned vaccine where they use inactivated whole virus to get a reaction from the immune system

Western pharma are using newer vaccine technology like adenovirus vectors which are suspected to cause neuro problems

[Tha_Mann]

share ko lang din. may officemate/friend ako na nag negative sa antigen test (swab on one nostril) . after two days, yung ka-team nya nag positive sa antigen test, so identified sila as close contact and they need to have PCR test (swab on both nostrils & throat) for confirmation. nung lumabas PCR test result nya, positive pala sya sa covid19 but asymptomatic sya.

[Deestone]

also nakakainis din ung positive ka sa IGG tapos i-quarantine ka and ipa-swab test pa (PCR)

eh IGG na nga magaling ka na dapat di ka na i-quarantine and di na kailangan i-swab di ka na nakakahawa

kaya fallen out of favor ang rapid antibody test

Yes management did recognize that so no problem if you are IGG positive you will not be force to self quarantine now unlike before. Only if you are positive with IGM.... heard that they are just using remaining rapid testkit stocks and might wholly divert to antigen test.

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[uls]

^^^

yup kasi ang antigen test di gaano sensitive so pag asymptomatic low level lang virus di madetect

[uls]

Yes management did recognize that so no problem if you are IGG positive you will not be force to self quarantine now unlike before. Only if you are positive with IGM.... heard that they are just using remaining rapid testkit stocks and might wholly divert to antigen test.

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yes people are learning

dati kasi whether IGM o IGG positive ipa-swab and quarantine ka

mas alam ngayon