Water as Fuel / HHO Technology [Merged Threads]

**xykosomatik** · June 9th, 2008 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by donbuggy

from Popular Mechanics' Mike Allen's Weekly Online Auto Clinic:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...c/4260857.html
April 25, 2008

Q: Have you ever heard of HHO gas and its ability to significantly boost your MPG? ........

interesting read, thanks. now some further questions.. .who is he and is he reliable? if so, is his conclusions reliable? has he tried it himself? all he said are theoretical math. how is he different from this guy here >> http://www.certifiedmastertech.com/wordpress/ ? not to mention the many people here >>http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6210&page=4 , http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...kumaran-2.html , or http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Hotsabi.pdf? whether the claims are factual or not, the important thing is THEY DID IT, with results. what about mike allen?

i'm not in it just to argue, i just want to know

**redorange** · June 9th, 2008 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by xykosomatik

interesting read, thanks. now some further questions.. .who is he and is he reliable? if so, is his conclusions reliable? has he tried it himself? all he said are theoretical math. how is he different from this guy here >> http://www.certifiedmastertech.com/wordpress/ ? not to mention the many people here >>http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6210&page=4 , http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...kumaran-2.html , or http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Hotsabi.pdf? whether the claims are factual or not, the important thing is THEY DID IT, with results. what about mike allen?

i'm not in it just to argue, i just want to know

Well, Mike Allen wasn't stating his theory he was stating the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Try Google and enter perpetual motion machine and you'll find the answer. Even the Meyer guy who supposedly invented the car powered by water lost a lawsuit because he could not show the court that it in fact worked as he claims it does by running on water. But, if you really want to waste your money in trying something that people have already told you is a scam by all means it's your money. BTW what was the purpose of your thread? Is it to find out if it's a scam? Was it to try and convince people it works? Because people have told you it doesn't work yet you will not believe them. Just keep in mind that multiple car makers not to mention the US military spend billions of dollars to research hydrogen or water as fuel for vehicles and the best they have come up with is still not as good as what these people claim.

**dvldoc** · June 9th, 2008 05:23 PM

What results, A fuel heater, ever heard of the Khoas proven not to work period.

Look at the post count of all the posters lol, It's clearly forums that are there to convince you that this stuff works, Show me a vehicle with no gas tank, no fuel pump, no fuel pump relay no fuel lines on a dyno running on water. Guess what you can't.

Those post are just a clear as day that they are just another part of the scam. Wake up and post something that is real. I love how they come up with measuring systems and make them sound like they are even accurate, BPM (bubbles per minute) LMAO, why don't you explain that one to us how they are counting all the bubbles per minute in this device, Just one at a time hmmm.

This is the same recycled crap you see on all the forums, Time to toss in the towel your not getting any converts here. Especially when they have something proven to work already especially on turbo diesels.

Other than the fact all these kits look like 1000 pesos worth of hardware store crap should tell you something.

**ghosthunter** · June 9th, 2008 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by xykosomatik

interesting read, thanks. now some further questions.. .who is he and is he reliable? if so, is his conclusions reliable? has he tried it himself? all he said are theoretical math. how is he different from this guy here >> http://www.certifiedmastertech.com/wordpress/ ? not to mention the many people here >>http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6210&page=4 , http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...kumaran-2.html , or http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Hotsabi.pdf? whether the claims are factual or not, the important thing is THEY DID IT, with results. what about mike allen?

Why don't you google Mike Allen just as you searched for your water4gas info?

**donbuggy** · June 9th, 2008 06:04 PM

And there is this thing called hydrogen embrittlement.

"Hydrogen embrittlement (or hydrogen grooving) is the process by which various metals, most importantly high-strength steel, become brittle and crack following exposure to hydrogen."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

**niky** · June 9th, 2008 06:10 PM

Well, the difference is... they claim they did it. Nobody has any dyno-proof, or repeatable results... simply because you can't get something for nothing.

They're right when they say that separating hydrogen and oxygen is a chemical process. What they don't let on is that it's a very energy intensive process. Which is what people here have been trying to point out.

Simply... you can't separate water without using lots of power. More power than you can get from burning hydrogen and oxygen. Period. No exceptions. If you could run a car on water, then everybody would be doing it already...

And if you don't believe us, you're very welcome to build a simple electrolysis machine... run a simple internal combustion motor with the gases produced, and charge the battery running the electrolysis machine by attaching it to an electric generator attached to that motor. That's far simpler than trying to drive both a car and an alternator using the same motor. And all you need is a small model car motor, a cheap battery pack and an electric motor (to act as your alternator). If you can get it to run for more than 15 minutes, you've done more than any scientist has ever done. :lol:

**ghosthunter** · June 9th, 2008 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by xykosomatik

its a statement based on 2nd hand info.

And do you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too?

i have YET to experiment this myself, since i just came across this stuff a few days back. one of the reasons i started this thread is to see if anyone else had tried this, either to prove OR disprove it. i can ask the same thing myself, if anyone here have tried it himself to disprove it, or just basing it, like i do, from articles and info on the net and coming to the conclusion that it is in fact a myth. so, has anyone?

Just using the laws of conservation, you can already prove that it cannot work. Why?

Assumptions: (actual percentages would be different but irrelevant)
Engine efficiency 70% conversion of chemical to mechanical power
Alternator efficiency 70% conversion of mechanical to electrical power
Electrolysis efficiency at 90% conversion of electrical to chemical reaction

Losses in efficiency in the system means it is always losing energy at every step of the way. If the system efficiency is 70%, it means 30% is being lost as heat due to friction or direct radiation.

Water4gas assumes you can produce enough hydrogen/oxygen to fuel an internal combustion engine and get enough power out of it to continue the electrolysis process while powering the car forward.

Since in an ideal system (where no energy is lost or gained from outside the system), splitting water into hydrogen & oxygen requires the exact same amount of energy you get from combining hydrogen and oxygen, so where do you get the extra power to move the car? And then moving from an ideal system to the real world, adding system losses, how do you make up for the energy conversion losses and still keep the electrolysis reaction going?

And all this is high school level chemistry and theoretical physics.

i hope this thread would turn out to be fruitful either way, and not become a "bashing" thread.

I am really curious?... are you asking the members of tsikot.com if water4gas thingie works or are you trying to recruit people to try out your water4gas thingie for you?

it's because I do remember you were just asking us if the wter4gas thingie works or not. And I do remember most of the people here already told you that it does not work. Yet here you are insisting that it might work in the face of all the information already given to you.

The fact that this is turning out as a "bashing" thread only because you keep on insisting that there must be something in the water4gas thingie because of all the info on the web? You can repeat "I can fly by flapping my arms" a million times but it still will not mean you can fly by flapping your arms. In the same way that a million websites saying you can turn water into fuel doesn't make it true.

EDIT: here's another guide to build our own HHO elecrolyzer. well illustrated, well explained.
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

Here's the challenge, if there is so much information and technical data "out there"... why isn't there a SINGLE solid example of a car using just water for fuel? (Note: hydrogen fueled cars are NOT water powered cars since they do not electrolyze the water onboard the car so do not use such as your example).

**xykosomatik** · June 9th, 2008 10:33 PM

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**xykosomatik** · June 9th, 2008 10:40 PM

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**edtf** · June 10th, 2008 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by ringostarr

Sir medyo far out your idea regarding our bodies. First of all we expel water via sweat, breathing, defecating and urinating. Water is a support system for our body not fuel for energy. If you check out your bottled water it says ZERO calories - meaning zero energy yan. If you want to give a good analogy of water for our body - think of it this way: the use of oxygen when you are burning something - the oxygen doesn't burn per se but supports the flame and the flame is buring something else. Take out the oxygen then the flame will die - same as water for our bodies.