Perhaps you can elaborate on the atheist people or nations you mentioned?Originally Posted by Monseratto
There are a lot of so-called Christian nations that have been secularized and unfortunately degenerated to Christian-by-name nations. We can bash them altogether. Lets start with Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, etc...All poor, corrupt, overpopulated. Now lets go to the once in glorious positions i.e. US. And then there's Western Europe where over 40% of the Christian church buildings are now occupied by Muslims. Yeah, you heard it right. The Muslims are taking over. Can we still say they're Christian?
The London lootings that happened recently, do we think that they were perpetrated by Christians? Last time I heard, the British called their religion football. They're not Christian.
Does our church really dominate everything? Do they have a say in your taxes, in your gas, in your food, in what you study, watch on TV? I think that you'll agree with me that its a bit exaggerated, don't you think? In fact, I think its the opposite. They're so uninvolved that society run amok and had its way with all the corruption, the lewdness, the poor and uneducated.
I do agree with you that we're not faring better than Thailand, nor Vietnam, nor our other neighbors in many things. But then again that's because I believe (and I think you'll agree with me) that most Pinoys don't put their beliefs where their mouths are, but more importantly, our deeds! We can be easily bought, swayed, or simply don't fight for what is right and good. Otherwise, we would have been one of the strongest nations in Asia by now. Too bad, we're not. I feel your pain...
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September 15th, 2011 01:08 AM #301
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September 15th, 2011 02:28 AM #302P$#^%^A. Kadiri. Animal existence na ito. Originally Posted by andywesteast
Catholic Pinoys eating Garbage. So what values do these people have?
Corruption, murders, lewdness, chaos, and destruction? I think the Christian Filipinos have completed the checklist.
Even the atheist Vietnamese don't live like this.
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September 15th, 2011 08:09 AM #303So a nation that adopts a secular stance or religious tolerance is bound to fall into disarray. Only a nation that adopts a pure Aryan...este Christian faith will enter the glorious arms of God and only then will be prosperous? Scary... So let's gather up all the Jews, Gypsies and sub humans and put them in Concentration camps...
Gee, so being a Christian won't make you any better than an atheist. Believing in God won't stop you from stealing, lie, cheat or kill others. So what's the point of having religion if you don't practice it in reality like MOST do as YOU pointed out? Read ULS back post... Originally Posted by Quint
Originally Posted by Quint
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September 15th, 2011 09:19 AM #304You do realize that they are still the most powerfull country today do you? They've been through 2 deppressions already and still became the most powerfull country after that. What's happening to their economy now is nothing compared to what happened to thm back then. Their economy right now is still far better compared to more than half of the countries in the world. Originally Posted by Quint
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September 15th, 2011 11:13 AM #305assuming they existed? amazing. believers will deny scientific evidence when it becomes inconvenient to their beliefsAssuming that these other homo species indeed existed,
just coz a species adapted in the past doesnt mean it will always succeed in adapting as the world around them changesand using the same "survival of the fittest position" that you're taking, weren't these creatures "designed" to be adaptors of their time much like us humans designed an SUV for off-road and a supercar for street use? Is it really random selection, or is it more like planned variation so that the species will be guaranteed to survive?
eventually they (those non-homo sapiens) failed
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Dangerous TB spreading at alarming rate in Europe-WHO | Reuters
Dangerous TB spreading at alarming rate in Europe-WHO
LONDON, Sept 14 (Reuters) - Multidrug-resistant and extensively drug-resistant forms of tuberculosis (TB) are spreading at an alarming rate in Europe and will kill thousands unless health authorities halt the pandemic, the World Health Organisation(WHO) said on Wednesday.Cases of multidrug-resistant (MDR-TB) and extensively drug-resistant TB (XDR-TB) -- where the infections are resistant to first-line and then second-line antibiotic treatments -- are spreading fast, with about 440,000 new patients every year around the world.bacteria develop antibiotic resistanceTreating even normal TB is a long and unpleasant process, with patients needing to take a combination of powerful antibiotics for 6 months. Many patients fail to correctly complete the course of medicines, a factor which has fueled a rise in drug-resistant forms of the disease.
Treatment regimes for MDR-TB and XDR-TB can stretch into two or more years, costing up to $16,000 in drugs alone and up to $200,000 to $300,000 per patient if isolation hospital costs, medical care and other resources are taken into account.
is it random mutation OR intentional deliberate planned intelligent creation?
so God created drug resistant TB to punish man for making antibiotics that kill His original TB?
random mutation makes more sense to mebacteria population strain XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
strain O is genetic mutation
antibiotic effective only against strain X
kills strain X
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOZOOOOOOOOOOOO
strain O becomes dominant strain
strain Z is genetic mutation
switch to antibiotic effective against strain O
kills strain O
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
strain Z becomes dominant strain
strain Y is genetic mutation
switch to antibiotic effective against strain Z
should i do this again?
that's why there are drug resistant bacteria
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September 15th, 2011 11:17 AM #306So following your line of reasoning, a supreme being designed the Neanderthals to be short stocky, hairy, slow, but incredibly strong in order to survive the Ice Age. They didn't have to be fast since their food source were slow lumbering mastodons. But they had to be strong. Then when the Ice Age ended, the same supreme being released a new design -- Cro Magnon -- to be smarter, agile, less hairy to be able to survive the warmer climate. They had to be fast and smart because the mastodons died out and they had to hunt faster, more dangerous prey. Originally Posted by Quint
Why the need to re-design?
You said that the supreme being designed the humans to adapt and survive the the present climate. So if the present climate is the Ice Age, then great -- the Neanderthals were perfect.
So why the need to end the ice age when the supreme being knows that this would have killed off the Neanderthals?
Nagsawa ba siya sa Neanderthals? (Humans v1.0?) Gusto na niya i-wipe out yung Humans v1.0 tapos mag install ng Cro Magnons (Humans v2.0)?
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September 15th, 2011 11:28 AM #307Lets go back to the question of what will be the difference if we don't believe in God... Originally Posted by Monseratto
If we look at the current times, its probably easy to agree with you and say, yes, the secular system is working well. Singapore is doing well, the US used to do very well, and as well as other "secular" countries. But then again, probably except for Singapore, US and Europe's foundations are also Christian. But the question is, how long can this secular system last? I think that its a matter of perspective.
If our perspective is limited to our current lifetime, then we can all agree that what you're saying is probably true. However, I'm not only looking at this lifetime. I'm looking beyond ours, and looking at the difference of what a God-believing people will be different compared to a non-believing race throughout generations.
Look at the Roman empire, and the former USSR, and we can see that these secular systems failed eventually. But I'm sure that they had better times. China probably saw what was coming and so adopted a semi-democratic system (a democracy is Christian in nature may I add) in order to survive. But is it sustainable?
My point is if you don't practice what you preach, then I don't think you should be called or claim to be called Christian. So lets not use it as we all know that most Pinoys, though Catholics, are non-practicing. Originally Posted by Monseratto
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September 15th, 2011 11:30 AM #308now you have to wonder kailan magsasawa si God sa homo sapiens hehe Originally Posted by ess
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September 15th, 2011 11:32 AM #309Baka nagsawa na nga. May design flaw ata eh. Madami nang false Christians na Homo Sapiens. Originally Posted by uls
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September 15th, 2011 12:12 PM #310So you do agree that under present circumstances, a "God fearing" nation tends to do poorly compared to a secular or religiously tolerant one. =) The trend through history is people will continue to question their religion, not blind obedience. So don't be sad if there are fewer "true" christians in the generations to come...
So the tag "the only Roman Catholic nation in Asia" is only in name. As non-practicing Catholics with christian values, most Filipinos are no better than your view of an atheist. Originally Posted by Quint
My point is if you don't practice what you preach, then I don't think you should be called or claim to be called Christian. So lets not use it as we all know that most Pinoys, though Catholics, are non-practicing.
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September 15th, 2011 12:45 PM #311it will take Million of years para ma upgrade Originally Posted by ess
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September 15th, 2011 01:23 PM #312evolution of lactose tolerance
Lactose Tolerance in East Africa Points to Recent Evolution - New York Times
Lactose Tolerance in East Africa Points to Recent Evolution
A surprisingly recent instance of human evolution has been detected among the peoples of East Africa. It is the ability to digest milk in adulthood, conferred by genetic changes that occurred as recently as 3,000 years ago, a team of geneticists has found.
The finding is a striking example of a cultural practice — the raising of dairy cattle — feeding back into the human genome. It also seems to be one of the first instances of convergent human evolution to be documented at the genetic level. Convergent evolution refers to two or more populations acquiring the same trait independently.
Throughout most of human history, the ability to digest lactose, the principal sugar of milk, has been switched off after weaning because the lactase enzyme that breaks the sugar apart is no longer needed. But when cattle were first domesticated 9,000 years ago and people later started to consume their milk as well as their meat, natural selection would have favored anyone with a mutation that kept the lactase gene switched on.
Such a mutation is known to have arisen among an early cattle-raising people, the Funnel Beaker culture, which flourished 5,000 to 6,000 years ago in north-central Europe. People with a persistently active lactase gene have no problem digesting milk and are said to be lactose tolerant.
Almost all Dutch people and 99 percent of Swedes are lactose tolerant, but the mutation becomes progressively less common in Europeans who live at increasing distances from the ancient Funnel Beaker region.
Geneticists wondered if the lactose tolerance mutation in Europeans, identified in 2002, had arisen among pastoral peoples elsewhere. But it seemed to be largely absent from Africa, even though pastoral peoples there generally have some degree of tolerance.
A research team led by Dr. Sarah Tishkoff of the University of Maryland has now solved much of the puzzle. After testing for lactose tolerance and genetic makeup among 43 ethnic groups in East Africa, she and her colleagues have found three new mutations, all independent of one another and of the European mutation, that keep the lactase gene permanently switched on.
The principal mutation, found among Nilo-Saharan-speaking ethnic groups of Kenya and Tanzania, arose 2,700 to 6,800 years ago, according to genetic estimates, Dr. Tishkoff’s group reports today in the journal Nature Genetics. This fits well with archaeological evidence suggesting that pastoral peoples from the north reached northern Kenya about 4,500 years ago and southern Kenya and Tanzania 3,300 years ago.
Two other mutations were found, among the Beja people of northeastern Sudan and tribes of the same language family, Afro-Asiatic, in northern Kenya.
Genetic evidence shows that the mutations conferred an enormous selective advantage on their owners, enabling them to leave almost 10 times as many descendants as people without such mutations. The mutations have created “one of the strongest genetic signatures of natural selection yet reported in humans,” the researchers write.
The survival advantage was so powerful perhaps because those with the mutations not only gained extra energy from lactose but also, in drought conditions, would have benefited from the water in milk. People who were lactose intolerant could have risked losing water from diarrhea, Dr. Tishkoff said.
Diane Gifford-Gonzalez, an archaeologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, said the new findings were “very exciting” because they “showed the speed with which a genetic mutation can be favored under conditions of strong natural selection, demonstrating the possible rate of evolutionary change in humans.”
The genetic data fitted in well, she said, with archaeological and linguistic evidence about the spread of pastoralism in Africa. The first clear evidence of cattle in Africa is from a site 8,000 years old in northwestern Sudan. Cattle there were domesticated independently from two other domestications, in the Near East and the Indus Valley of India.
Nilo-Saharan speakers in Sudan and their Cushitic-speaking neighbors in the Red Sea hills probably domesticated cattle at the same time, because each has an independent vocabulary for cattle items, said Dr. Christopher Ehret, an expert on African languages and history at the University of California, Los Angeles. Descendants of each group moved south and would have met again in Kenya, Dr. Ehret said.
Dr. Tishkoff detected lactose tolerance among Cushitic speakers and Nilo-Saharan groups in Kenya. Cushitic is a branch of Afro-Asiatic, the language family that includes Arabic, Hebrew and ancient Egyptian.
Dr. Jonathan Pritchard, a statistical geneticist at the University of Chicago and a co-author of the new article, said there were many signals of natural selection in the human genome but it was usually hard to know what was being selected for. In this case Dr. Tishkoff clearly defined the driving force, he said.
The mutations Dr. Tishkoff detected are not in the lactase gene itself but a nearby region of the DNA that controls the activation of the gene. The finding that different ethnic groups in East Africa have different mutations is one instance of their varied evolutionary history and their exposure to many different selective pressures, Dr. Tishkoff said.
“There is a lot of genetic variation between groups in Africa, reflecting the different environments in which they live, from deserts to tropics, and their exposure to very different selective forces,” she said.
People in different regions of the world have evolved independently since dispersing from the ancestral human population in northeast Africa 50,000 years ago, a process that has led to the emergence of different races. But much of this differentiation at the level of DNA may have led to the same physical result.
As Dr. Tishkoff has found in the case of lactose tolerance, evolution may use the different mutations available to it in each population to reach the same goal when each is subjected to the same selective pressure. “I think it’s reasonable to assume this will be a more general paradigm,” Dr. Pritchard said.
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September 15th, 2011 01:23 PM #313and why there are people who are lactose intolerant
Lactose Intolerance Linked To Ancestral Environment
Lactose Intolerance Linked To Ancestral Environment
ScienceDaily (June 2, 2005) — ITHACA, N.Y. -- Got milk? Many people couldn't care less because they can't digest it. A new Cornell University study finds that it is primarily people whose ancestors came from places where dairy herds could be raised safely and economically, such as in Europe, who have developed the ability to digest milk.
On the other hand, most adults whose ancestors lived in very hot or very cold climates that couldn't support dairy herding or in places where deadly diseases of cattle were present before 1900, such as in Africa and many parts of Asia, do not have the ability to digest milk after infancy.
"The implication is that harsh climates and dangerous diseases negatively impact dairy herding and geographically restrict the availability of milk, and that humans have physiologically adapted to that," said evolutionary biologist Paul Sherman, a professor of neurobiology and behavior at Cornell. "This is a spectacular case of how cultural evolution -- in this case, the domestication of cattle -- has guided our biological evolution."
Although all mammalian infants drink their mothers' milk, humans are the only mammals that drink milk as adults. But most people -- about 60 percent and primarily those of Asian and African descent -- stop producing lactase, the enzyme required to digest milk, as they mature. People of northern European descent, however, tend to retain the ability to produce the enzyme and drink milk throughout life.
Sherman and former Cornell undergraduate student Gabrielle Bloom '03, now a graduate student at the University of Chicago, compiled data on lactose intolerance (the inability to digest dairy products) from 270 indigenous African and Eurasian populations in 39 countries, from southern Africa to northern Greenland. Their findings will be published in a forthcoming issue of Evolution and Human Behavior.
On average, Sherman and Bloom found that 61 percent of people studied were lactose intolerant, with a range of 2 percent in Denmark and 100 percent in Zambia. They also found that lactose intolerance decreases with increasing latitude and increases with rising temperature, and especially with the difficulty in maintaining dairy herds safely and economically.
A major challenge in interpreting the data, Sherman noted, was to resolve the puzzle that about 13 lactose-tolerant populations live side-by-side with lactose-intolerant populations in some parts of Africa and the Middle East.
"The most likely explanation is nomadism," Sherman concluded. All 13 of the populations that can digest dairy yet live in areas that are primarily lactose intolerant were historically migratory groups that moved seasonally, Sherman said. Their nomadism enabled them to find suitable forage for their cattle and to avoid extreme temperatures. "Also, the fact that these groups maintained small herds and kept them moving probably reduced the pathogen transmission rate."
According to the National Digestive Diseases Information Clearinghouse, some 30 million to 50 million Americans are lactose intolerant, including up to 75 percent of African Americans and American Indians and 90 percent of Asian Americans. Common symptoms include nausea, cramps, bloating, gas and diarrhea that begin about 30 minutes to two hours after eating or drinking foods containing the milk sugar lactose. The use of lactase enzyme tablets or drops or lactose-reduced milk and similar products can help the lactose intolerant digest dairy products.
Sherman's study concludes that adults from Europe can drink milk because their ancestors lived where dairying flourished and passed on gene mutations that maintain lactase into adulthood. The research, he said, is an example of Darwinian medicine, a new interdisciplinary field of science that takes an evolutionary look at health, and considers why, rather than how, certain conditions or symptoms develop. Sherman, for example, recently investigated why spices are used and why morning sickness occurs.
"Both appear to serve an important function to protect the individual," Sherman said. "Spices contain antimicrobial compounds, and they may be used to destroy food-borne pathogens, especially in hot climates. Nausea and vomiting early in pregnancy also may protect women and their embryos from food-borne pathogens and other toxins."
A Darwinian medicinal view complements traditional medicine, Sherman said, because if researchers can better understand why a symptom occurs, such as a fever, runny nose or allergy, they can better evaluate whether it is best to eliminate or tolerate it.
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September 15th, 2011 05:10 PM #314We might! Bakit ko nasabi? Ang tao mas magiging mulat sa realidad ng buhay. Wala na ang "bahala na ang Diyos" thinking. Meaning kung kapos sa income. Mas maiisip ng tao na kelangan nya gumawa ng diskarte to increase his income, instead of "bahala na ang Diyos". Originally Posted by ghosthunter
Faith would have a different meaning. Halimbawa, kung dati
"nanampalataya ako na mas lalaki ang income in the coming days, dahil inumpisahan ko manalangin ng dalawang oras kada araw!"
eto ay magiging
"nanampalataya ako na mas lalaki ang income in the coming days, dahil inumpisahan ko magtrabaho ng extra dalawang oras kada araw"
In short mas magiging lohikal ang ating mga sinasampalatayanan.
Yan ang opinyon ko sir.
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September 15th, 2011 05:24 PM #315*quint
What do you believe is the REAL origin of man?
1. God created Adam and Eve in the garden of eden
2. evolution of man through millions of years of natural selection
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September 15th, 2011 05:29 PM #316pwede naman na God created man in the garden of eden then nag evolve into what we are today.
di naman conflict ang science at religion. opinion ko lang.
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September 15th, 2011 05:45 PM #317How would you link 6 days creation (according to the bible) sa claim ng science na nag evolve ang tao over a really really long period of time? Originally Posted by robot.sonic
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September 15th, 2011 06:00 PM #318So God initially created some chimps in the garden of eden then they evolved into humans? Originally Posted by robot.sonic
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September 15th, 2011 06:08 PM #319Dapat ata sa chatbox na ito, nag-evolve na din thread.
Fasten your seatbelt! Or else...
Driven To Thrill!
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September 15th, 2011 06:14 PM #320*quint
What do you believe is the REAL origin of man?
1. God created Adam and Eve in the garden of eden
2. evolution of man through millions of years of natural selection
]
Originally Posted by Monseratto
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