Things you need to know before idolizing marcos

[ClaNker]

Contrary to what you say, we were very much like the Communist Red Party during our martial law days. Do you think China's success was merely a fluke? Try talking to some old Chinese people then like those who migrated. They migrated because China wasn't even considered "well-developed" by then and we were the industrialized country in Asia. But ask them and you'll always elicit response that they never doubted China's rise as a global superpower. Vision is what fueled China's rise and vision doesn't come cheaply.

I did look at the facts. Is China not a debt-driven economy when it entered an expansionary monetary policy in 2010? Did state banks not overspend when Beijing tells them "lend."? Do you think China is not crony-capitalism given the Communist Party's grasp on business and politics?

Have you been to China? Have you done actual business in China? Or do you simply defend your Philippine views because you believe it's just the truth and only the truth in your eyes? Now who's not looking at the facts?

Ano ba ang pakialam ko sa China.

We are talking about Marcos regime here. Check your damn facts will ya.

[[archie]]

Jhnkvn, seriously?

What economic evidences can you give for the reign of Marcos?

Enough of these hypotheticals. What positive economic evidences can be produced?

Please give me factual numbers that support we were better off with Marcos.

You claim we would be better off but numbers don't lie.

[e2romo]

Pwet yata ni Makoy sinisinghot ng pamilya nila kaya lahat ng ginawa ni Marcos mabango.

We lived through the Marcos era at naramdaman namin kung paano naging pahirap ng pahirap ang buhay. Yung kinakain ng ordinaryong tao ngayon hindi makakain ng panahon ni Marcos. Dumating kami sa paggamit ng extenders, yung pamalit sa mga meat, dahil di maafford na ang mga karne. Bago na overthrow siya panay advertise ng gobyerno na kumain na lang ng gulay.

Apples, grapes, oranges, imported chocolates were luxury items back then, kung may 1 basket mayaman ka. We can only afford 4 apples and our parents buy it during new year dahil luxury item siya back then. Ngayon neglected na yung benefit na you can afford these items.

Ang mga nakaranas ng buhay sa panahon ni Marcos ang makakapagsabi kung alin ang mas mainam, definitely mas gumanda buhay namin noong nawala siya.

Sent from the Twilight Zone...

[jhnkvn]

Take note that I don't take Marcos as a saint nor do I highly revere him. I did not refute the human right killings under his regime nor did I say that his policies are automatically wrong. It was a chance he took and lost the bet. But I'd rather have leaders that tries to shake up the country, take the risk, and do rather than leaders who says national apologies or leaders who were convicted of plunder and running again in the country.

As an entrepreneur, I like risk. Because not taking action - not taking risk is the same as ineptitude. Without decisions, there's no progress. Give it a real-world touch of picture -- you have an uncle that's adventurous enough to try riskign it on a venture. He fails and is forever branded as a failure. Is that logical by any standards? What about the opportunity cost if he strikes it big and got out of poverty?

It's always a two-sided coin. I'm not on anybody's side.. but I believe the bias on one side is incredible here.

[ClaNker]

Take note that I don't take Marcos as a saint nor do I highly revere him. I did not refute the human right killings under his regime nor did I say that his policies are automatically wrong. It was a chance he took and lost the bet. But I'd rather have leaders that tries to shake up the country, take the risk, and do rather than leaders who says national apologies or leaders who were convicted of plunder and running again in the country.

As an entrepreneur, I like risk. Because not taking action - not taking risk is the same as ineptitude. Without decisions, there's no progress. Give it a real-world touch of picture -- you have an uncle that's adventurous enough to try riskign it on a venture. He fails and is forever branded as a failure. Is that logical by any standards? What about the opportunity cost if he strikes it big and got out of poverty?

It's always a two-sided coin. I'm not on anybody's side.. but I believe the bias on one side is incredible here.

Check why he took those chance and the things he did to get it. Was it for the best of the country? You're really out of touch.

[funkeemunkee]

PHL was definitely better off post-Makoy. You don't even have to look at the numbers. Little knowledge is dangerous.

[jhnkvn]

Check why he took those chance and the things he did to get it. Was it for the best of the country? You're really out of touch.

Before governments rise, there's always vision. Why do you think the US won the Cold War? Why is Mao Zedong's socialist views so ingrained on the Communist Party?

The grass is only greener once you're reaping the benefits.

It was not the best for the country. His policies weren't the best after all. But which of the Presidents after him were any better? Vision gives progress -- let's just hope it's for the better. But without a vision, where does our typical Filipino stand?

[[archie]]

It was not the best for the country. His policies weren't the best after all. But which of the Presidents after him were any better? Vision gives progress -- let's just hope it's for the better. But without a vision, where does our typical Filipino stand?

How can you compare presidents with his regime? It's limited to 6 years. That's why you have to compare via time line. Even with all the wrong doings of presidents after, it still can't compare to the devastating effects of his regime.

[ClaNker]

Before governments rise, there's always vision. Why do you think the US won the Cold War? Why is Mao Zedong's socialist views so ingrained on the Communist Party?

The grass is only greener once you're reaping the benefits.

It was not the best for the country. His policies weren't the best after all. But which of the Presidents after him were any better? Vision gives progress -- let's just hope it's for the better. But without a vision, where does our typical Filipino stand?

:doh:

Too short indeed.

[[archie]]

Take note that I don't take Marcos as a saint nor do I highly revere him. I did not refute the human right killings under his regime nor did I say that his policies are automatically wrong. It was a chance he took and lost the bet. But I'd rather have leaders that tries to shake up the country, take the risk, and do rather than leaders who says national apologies or leaders who were convicted of plunder and running again in the country.

As an entrepreneur, I like risk. Because not taking action - not taking risk is the same as ineptitude. Without decisions, there's no progress. Give it a real-world touch of picture -- you have an uncle that's adventurous enough to try riskign it on a venture. He fails and is forever branded as a failure. Is that logical by any standards? What about the opportunity cost if he strikes it big and got out of poverty?

It's always a two-sided coin. I'm not on anybody's side.. but I believe the bias on one side is incredible here.

That's why I answer your points directly. To avoid this kind of reply.

You don't refute? But claim it's comparable to human rights now? Ummm... OK.

Of course bias ako against Marcos, he bought the country to its knees for personal gain.

In your mind, you think infrastructure was a gamble. Really? It was a way to get debts and have his unlimited kick backs. As what niky said, what ROI?

[jhnkvn]

Of course bias ako against Marcos, he bought the country to its knees for personal gain.

In your mind, you think infrastructure was a gamble. Really? It was a way to get debts and have his unlimited kick backs. As what niky said, what ROI?

And you believe the past two administration doesn't exploit taxpayers dollars and foreign aid for personal gain? Your ROI was that the project needed to be complete because if not it public unrest gains momentum. As the strongman, you won't like public unrest because halata naman sino may kasalanan. What about today? We have roads that.. you know.. with electrical posts in the middle and when the blaming comes -- si municipal council may fault! si Senator XX! si DPWH! si... lagi nalang fingerpointing and yet the post still stands. Such is our modern day progress.

The early posts were right. Marcos was simply centralized. The succeeding were decentralized. If you want the best for the Philippines, what's easier to remove?

[[archie]]

And you believe the past two administration doesn't exploit taxpayers dollars and foreign aid for personal gain? Your ROI was that the project needed to be complete because if not it public unrest gains momentum. As the strongman, you won't like public unrest because halata naman sino may kasalanan. What about today? We have roads that.. you know.. with electrical posts in the middle and when the blaming comes -- si municipal council may fault! si Senator XX! si DPWH! si... lagi nalang fingerpointing and yet the post still stands. Such is our modern day progress.

The early posts were right. Marcos was simply centralized. The succeeding were decentralized. If you want the best for the Philippines, what's easier to remove?

Yes, personal gain. Again, as I've said, marami wrong doings administrations after, not even near the destructive effects of the Marcos era. give me economical numbers the prove that it was just the same as the Marcos era ang economy.

Hmm... Or does data show otherwise?

[[archie]]

At may trabaho ka.

[confused shoes]

Hehe, syempre sir.

Kaya yun di ko matapos tapos ang aking ginagawa sa sobrang init.

Makabili nga ng solar panel baka mawalan na naman ng kuryente. Kahit papaano may liwanag.

[[archie]]

I'll ask you...

Would you rather have electricity but nahihirapan maghanap ng work like yebo did OR may work ka pero may electricity interruption?

[confused shoes]

^In the first place, wala talaga akong mapapasukang trabaho kapag walang kuryente. So walang mag hire sa akin.

If I am the investor, say a BPO investor. I-assume natin na ikaw si Penoy.

"Mr. Penoy, I want to set up a call center business in your country. Melon ka ba kulyente? May intelnet ba sa Pelepenas?"

"Wala boss eh, magpapatayo pa lang kami. Siguro sampung taon pa bago kami magkakakuryente at pagdedebatihan pa yan"

"Ok Mr Penoy, magtanim na lang kayo ng kamote.

[[archie]]

O my, your missing the point entirely.

Do you really think that way.

Huh? you can have work without electricity. Hindi pa computer generation yun. All were done manually.

People during that time would be so happy and proud to have work.

Ang problem nga MINIMAL employment. That seems what you don't get.

[confused shoes]

Huh? you can have work without electricity. Hindi pa computer generation yun. All were done manually.

OR may work ka pero may electricity interruption?

If I am the investor, I will not place my money with facilities frequented by power interruptions. No investor means, no jobs.

Our government is happy with "manually done" jobs? Penoy pala.

Well, well. Makalabas na nga muna at makapagpamasahe. Baka sakaling may kuryente doon.

[[archie]]

Madali mag work dati kahit no electricity. Hindi mo lang talaga gusto intindihin.

People are lining up for hope of employment. Electricity or not, they can work and want to work.

HIRAP sila makahanap ng trabaho. Asan ba investors ni Marcos nung panahon niya?

Di ba he was taking over private companies?

O mahirap pa rin intindihin?

[glenn_duke]

I didn't know na mahirap maghanap ng work nung panahon ng martial law compared to the present.
My eldest brother hindi pa naka graduate sa UP may job offer na sa oil exploration.
My brother next to him got hired inside the Subic base right after graduation.
At that time Im addicted to nutriban, 15c plain and 25c if with peanut butter, match na match sa 10c na bayani lemon softdrinks.
When I graduated, my brother gave me a recommendation letter from Estelito Mendoza and presto napa-isip tuloy ako kung saan ako mag aaply. Ngayon you dont have that luxury na, sa dami ng kamag-anak ng mga gahaman politiko hindi na sila makapag bigay ng recommendation letter sa ibang tao.
Kahit yung mga jobless na tsismosa at mahilig magkutuhan sa mga squatter area nagka uniform at naging metro aide, kaya lalong dumami kuto nila sa init. Those were the years na hindi pa ginagawang negosyo ng mga oligarch ang mga pinoy. Hindi pa commercialize ang education, kahit anak ng magsasaka pwedeng makapag college, ngayon nakapasok na sa UP nag papakamatay pa dahil sa kahirapan, these days kahit UP hindi na affordable, sigh...

On the other hand, totoong mahirap magnegosyo nung panahon ng martial law, regulated kasi kung magkano lang pwede mong kitain sa pawis ni juan dela cruz, unlike today, pati brief gustong huthutin sa iyo ng mga negosyante na ito. Wala pang DI nun, kung isumbong mo sa malacanan na malaki ang DI ng SA mo baka ipabaril ni apo sa luneta ang SA mo. Those years nga, greed is a monopoly of malacanan, which to me is much better than the greed you can see today in both the politicians and the businessmen, isama na ang greed ng mga private educational institutions. K-12 is a product of greed.

At totoo din may vision si makoy para sa pinas, at least yun ang magiging first impression mo, sa bagong silang o new society na propaganda nya. But at least nakikita mo ang development, may mga specialize medical centers, may cultural centers, at dumami ang road network, nagsimula din ang LRT nung panahon nya.

If the marcoses are really that bad, bakit ni isang marcos o romualdez ay walang nakakulong for graft or plunder?

Sabi nga ng yumao kong tatay, kung sperm kapa nung 1972, you have no right to judge the martial law years.
If not for the martial law baka hindi lang sa ayungin nakatayo ang flag ng china, baka nasa malacanan na.