Things you need to know before idolizing marcos

[[archie]]

Galing sa article ni TopEngine:

"But for democracy to work better, the voting public must be knowledgeable. They must find out about issues and determine which candidate offers the best course of action."

Action sa kanila is infrastructure, yung nakikita nila. Di bale na yung mga economic evidences, di bale na negative numbers, di bale na bankrupt central bank... Basta may naitayo = may nagawa.

Key word: "knowledgeable"

[[archie]]

^^ Anong utang utang? Sa Fiesta nga ang tanungan e hindi gaano kalaki ginastos sa handaan, kundi gaano kalaki inutang.

No money to pay the debt? No problem, basta may infrastructure.

[donbuggy]

Human rights violation? MURDER? No problem, basta may infrastructure.

[TopEngine]

^^ Anong utang utang? Sa Fiesta nga ang tanungan e hindi gaano kalaki ginastos sa handaan, kundi gaano kalaki inutang.

No money to pay the debt? No problem, basta may infrastructure.

Simple. Those [infrastructure, programs] are supposed to be investment vehicles for the future [now our present time] to pay the loans and reap the gains for supposed loooooooong-term nation-building, that's a man with vision.

What did Aquino government do for these projects? Discontinued, and Privatized, given to her cronies, oligarchs, and families/relatives.

[ClaNker]

Simple. Those [infrastructure, programs] are supposed to be investment vehicles for the future [now our present time] to pay the loans and reap the gains for supposed loooooooong-term nation-building, that's a man with vision.

What did Aquino government do for these projects? Discontinued, and Privatized, given to her cronies, oligarchs, and families/relatives.

Man with a vision...

[[archie]]

What??!? Are you serious? Please explain further.

[ClaNker]

What??!? Are you serious? Please explain further.

Long term investment daw sa Marcos family yung infrastructure project.

Lakas ng tama talaga ng mga macoy lovers na to.

[[archie]]

Long term investment daw sa Marcos family yung infrastructure project.

Lakas ng tama talaga ng mga macoy lovers na to.

In what sense? Kakaiba...

Negative numbers, aggressive depreciation, minimal employment, ano pa?

Please explain, TopEngine. Our country's debt rose in epic proportions.

[ClaNker]

In what sense? Kakaiba...

Negative numbers, aggressive depreciation, minimal employment, ano pa?

Please explain, TopEngine. Our country's debt rose in epic proportions.

Just fooling around.

But in reality, those are in fact investment of the marcos family. Laki ng na bulsa nila sa mga projects na yan eh.

[TopEngine]

how about now?

[ClaNker]

Oo nga naman ano... Sa totoo lang magaling at matinong lider naman talaga si macoy, di sya nangurakot. at pinatakbo nya ng maayos ang Pilipinas.

Nasa golden age ang Pinas during his reign. And daming infrastructure project and money is flowing into the Philippines during his time. Ang yaman talaga ng Pilipinas noon.

Sinira lang ng mga taong naka paligid sa kanya. At winaldas ang infrastructure investment nya ng mga administration after him.

[niky]

A long-term investment is only an investment if it has a use, and if that up-front spending and the debt incurred by spending aren't inflated by kickbacks and corruption.

Very easy to build and build when you're borrowing money at high interest, flirting with double digit inflation and absorbing and confiscating private businesses left and right to distribute to cronies.

Very easy to make things look good when you cover over all the squatter shanties at every international event (something we still do today, sadly) and attempt to greenwash everything. During the Marcos era, a lot of foreigners knew where they were when they got off the plane... due to the lovely smell of... alam mo na... I lived in Manila in the 80's. As a middle class kid who woke up each morning to the smell of cockroaches. Which was why we transferred to the provinces. Anyone who tells you it was perfect is wearing extremely rose-tinted glasses. For us? Okay lang. Grand-uncle was a police general, Grandfather was a Marcos supporter. Uncle was a Cory supporter, and is still a Liberal Party member.

40 years ago, the Philippines was mildly prosperous. 30 years ago, it was teetering on bankruptcy, tens of billions of dollars in debt, suffering from high inflation and wracked by political instability. Cory may have been a poor President, but when you're left in the hole, there's little you can do but start digging. And Marcos left us a very small spoon. It's taken us nearly thirty years to dig ourselves out to a semi-respectable position. (could have been sooner if not for the Asian Financial Crisis and the World Financial Crisis that took place in those times.)

This is not to say any of the Presidents of late have been perfect. But to suggest Marcos was a saint because he spent a lot of money on infrastructure and the military is pretty short-sighted if it doesn't take into account where that money came from and how we were supposed to pay it back. (long-term investment? Military? Anong ROI mo dun? San mangagaling? Fleet rental? Kiddie rides sa F86? )

[[archie]]

Yun din alam ko, they mask corruption through infrastructure.

[TopEngine]

Hindi ko sinabing si Marcos is perfect President, nor a saint. Baka kayo santa niyo siya?
Dahil lahat naman niyan naging corrupt, pero sino sa kanila meron nagawang proyekto?

Simple lang naman, ipakita niyo dito nagawang projects, Presidential decrees, o ano pa man niyan ng mga sumunod na Presidente na napapakinabangan ng mga Pilipino, dahil kung wala, it's all theories, drawing.

One of the R&D projects during Marcos government.

[[archie]]

I'll answer in a form of a question...

What's more important, economy or infrastructure?

[TopEngine]

anong mas mabuti, naibulsa lahat o yung meron naibulsa pero meron din proyekto?

Sa totoo lang, hindi lang naman infrastructures ang naging projects ni Marcos. Marami pa rin mga batas, decrees na until now napapakinabangan ng Pilipinas.

I haven't seen countries having good economic standing that don't have infrastructures.

Those countries built roads, hi-ways, bridges [let's include airports, sea ports, etc] to move products from remote areas to the cities, and vice versa. They built hospitals, and rural clinics for healthcare purposes. They built services for common needs [water, electricity, communications, housing, etc]. They see to it that they modernize their hukbong sandatahan to protect sovereignty against external forces [but of course, first you must iron-out internal forces].

[[archie]]

Kakaiba talaga. I think you need to check the basics.

What good is the infrastructure if there are minimal employment

What good is the infrastructure if the central bank is bankrupt

What good is the infrastructure if that's built on epic debts

What good is the infrastructure if there is aggressive depreciation

And the list goes on.

Edit: Does that sound like a "good economic standing"? The answer is NO.

[ClaNker]

^ Ah basta may infrastructure.

[TopEngine]

Kakaiba talaga. I think you need to check the basics.

What good is the infrastructure if there are minimal employment

What good is the infrastructure if the central bank is bankrupt

What good is the infrastructure if that's built on epic debts

What good is the infrastructure if there is aggressive depreciation

And the list goes on.

Edit: Does that sound like a "good economic standing"? The answer is NO.

I did not say that at time Philippines is at good economic standing pero malapit na sana.
Yang mga binanggit mong problema na solusyunan ba ng Cory government? baka worst pa nga. Wala pala ikinaunlad nung nag-iba ang nakaupo. Ano reklamo niyo ngayon kay Marcos?
Pero kung hindi sana pinatalsik ng mga dilawan at emosyonal na mamamayan, natuloy sana yang mga proyekto ni Marcos. Mga ilan taon pa sana after 1986 Philippines should be reaping the fruits of those projects, maunlad na sana ang Pilipinas ngayon.
Kaso pinahinto ni Cory mga projects, mga iba pinamigay sa Oligarchs (kasama na kamag-anak), kaya nagkaroon ng matinding shortage sa enerhiya, sino ngayon gusto magnegosyo (investors) sa Pilipinas? Kaya mas lalo tumaas ang unemployment rate, kaya bankrupt, at mas lalo tayo hindi makabayad ng debts.

That's pure basics. Until now hindi niyo pa rin ma explain maayos argument niyo, puro patanong.

[ClaNker]

I did not say that at time Philippines is at good economic standing pero malapit na sana.
Yang mga binanggit mong problema na solusyunan ba ng Cory government? baka worst pa nga. Wala pala ikinaunlad nung nag-iba ang nakaupo. Ano reklamo niyo ngayon kay Marcos?
Pero kung hindi sana pinatalsik ng mga dilawan at emosyonal na mamamayan, natuloy sana yang mga proyekto ni Marcos. Mga ilan taon pa sana after 1986 Philippines should be reaping the fruits of those projects, maunlad na sana ang Pilipinas ngayon.
Kaso pinahinto ni Cory mga projects, mga iba pinamigay sa Oligarchs (kasama na kamag-anak), kaya nagkaroon ng matinding shortage sa enerhiya, sino ngayon gusto magnegosyo (investors) sa Pilipinas? Kaya mas lalo tumaas ang unemployment rate, kaya bankrupt, at mas lalo tayo hindi makabayad ng debts.

That's pure basics. Until now hindi niyo pa rin ma explain maayos argument niyo, puro patanong.

Sige nga mukhang ang dami mong alam na tama.

Paliwanag mo sa amin kung pano mapaunlad ni makoy mo ang pinas kung di sya pinatalsik. Mind you ang dami pang pera ng pinas nung 1986 ha at napak liit ng utang natin.

Enlighten us please, the floor is yours.