Gas saving device

[mikaztro]

To each his own. It's a stalemate. No one will dare install this device to his/her vehicle nor attend the demos of Mr. Odee. We also don't have testing centers here that can provide us technical details of NOx emissions. The Tsikot Mods have cleary evaluated this product by overseeing the data posted here in the forum by Mr. Odee and his clients. They have every right to disprove this so-called gadget of Mr. Planas for what its worth. Likewise, Mr. Odee and his Clients have also the right to post whatever their conclusion is or opinion that maybe well worth the risk. I guess it boils down to "Is it worth the risk?"

I just hope this device helps and not the other way around.

[Drexx]

20Oct2004 (UTC +8)

I too am interested in this Khaos theory. If anybody wants to test their Toyota/Chevrolet engines, I have a PC with OBD-II tester that can produce nice graphs and charts taken from actual engine readings.

[Drexx]

20Oct2004 (UTC +8)

After scrolling through all the stuff said and done in here, my first theory is that this Khaos Super Turbo Charger is simply (in Toyota parlance) an Idle Air Bypass mechanism. For EFI'ed Toyota engines, this is set once at the factory and then sealed for very good reasons. A famous maker of carburetors, Holley, has 'em too and adjusted using the idle mixture screws. (See sample description at http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...fo/TI-219.html) The KSTC is no-way any sort of forced air induction system.

If an existing carbureted gas engine doesn't have this idle mixture mechanism (or if the uneducated car owner doesn't know they have them), this KSTC just maybe a very good idea if you drive *exclusively* in crowded Metro Manila streets. Adding in more air to the air induction system is the "good idea" in it, because when the engine is idling and the KSTC adds in more air that bypasses the closed throttle valve, the KSTC *may* (by luck/chance/prayers***) help achieve the ideal stoichiometric ratio by "leaning" (a.k.a. increasing oxygen content in the fuel/air mix).

***I say by luck because a carb'ed engine without an EFI system, has no feedback mechanism to properly control correct air/fuel mixture at any given rpm, or engine load. Mechanical control systems have no sense of governing engine variables at all, like spark advance timing, environmental air pressure, air volume, etc.

Now, there is a problem here with haphazardly adding an air-intake bypass. It will lean out the engine at high rpm/load also! Fuel consumption will actually worsen, the power will weaken, and the engine may overheat. So, if I think about this correctly, this KSTC *may* have a mechanical valve that shuts itself off to allow all, if not most, of the air to the intake manifold during acceleration or highway driving (and so let the engine's stock config mix the correct a/f ratio at higher rpm/load).

Conclusion? This idea *maybe* good for carbureted gas engines only. It is not an upgrade for a modern EFI'ed engine --in fact it's going to be bad for it if the KSTC bypasses the Mass Air Flow sensor (thus cheating the engine CPU about the correct volume of air entering the fuel combustion chambers). But I really can't say anything definite about it, much less recommend it, unless I see and validate for myself data that shows engine improvement.

[Drexx]

20Oct2004 (UTC +8)

I only wish that the KSTC vendors reveal to everybody how their stuff really works, so as to dispel the general impression that their product is a scam...

...but then again, if it is indeed a simple device that can be easily copied, then I see their fear in releasing such valuable info. They maybe in need to make money A.S.A.P. to recover their investor's money. I actually know how hard it is here in Asia-Pacific to protect Intellectual Property Rights...

...but then again again, if they're really that good, they should innovate and always be a step ahead of any competitor. IMHO, they should start selling EFI conversions.

[odeereambillo]

Sirs,

sorry po sa napakatagal na absence ko... as i've mentioned earlier, parati po down internet namin.

anyway po... i've gone through the whole thread again just to refresh myself.

Nais ko po magpasalamat sa lahat. Kagaya nga po ng nasabi ko dati, I am for the good of the majority. Kung nakakabuti nga po itong device na ito at ito'y mapapatunayan sa tulong ng marami dito sa group na ito dahil sa pagtawag ng pansin sa mga kinauukulan.

Sir Drexx po, tama po yong description niyo how the device works. please allow me po to show you kasi po mas ma-aappreciate niyo po sa actual demo and there is more to it than just an air bleed. Hirap po kasi talaga ma-explain sa text lang.

Sir Ghosthunter po, innocent question lang po, iyon po bang ECU ilan ang sensors niya and anu-ano po ang function ng mga ito. thanks po in advance sa sagot niyo.

Sir Kiper po, di po ako nagsend ng .txt files sa email niyo. Nag send po ako ng PM sa forum na ito sa inyo tungkol po sa mga docs na ise-send ko dapat sa inyo - email ko po is usreambillo*yahoo.com

Sir mikaztro salamat po sa pagiging fair nyo...

thanks and more POWER!

Odee

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by squala
... which makes this advertisement a word-by-mouth thing, relying on verbal claims and testimonials. I want to see an actual demo of the claimed correct air-fuel mixture using proper devices.

Sir,

may alam po ba kayo pagbibilan ng proper test equipment like an A/F meter or guage dito sa Pilipinas? ang tagal pa po kasi ng delivery nung inorder namin from US.

thanks and more POWER po!

Odee

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,

may alam po ba kayo pagbibilan ng proper test equipment like an A/F meter or guage dito sa Pilipinas? ang tagal pa po kasi ng delivery nung inorder namin from US.

Maybe you should ask the inventor Mr. Planas since the device was "thoroughly tested". Given that fact, I'm sure he can lend you a 5 gas analyzer he used to test his device.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by odeereambillo

Sir Ghosthunter po, innocent question lang po, iyon po bang ECU ilan ang sensors niya and anu-ano po ang function ng mga ito. thanks po in advance sa sagot niyo.

Engine Sensors

In order to provide the correct amount of fuel for every operating condition, the engine control unit (ECU) has to monitor a huge number of input sensors. Here are just a few:

Mass airflow sensor - Tells the ECU the mass of air entering the engine

Oxygen sensor(s) - Monitors the amount of oxygen in the exhaust so the ECU can determine how rich or lean the fuel mixture is and make adjustments accordingly

Throttle position sensor - Monitors the throttle valve position (which determines how much air goes into the engine) so the ECU can respond quickly to changes, increasing or decreasing the fuel rate as necessary

Coolant temperature sensor - Allows the ECU to determine when the engine has reached its proper operating temperature

Voltage sensor - Monitors the system voltage in the car so the ECU can raise the idle speed if voltage is dropping (which would indicate a high electrical load)

Manifold absolute pressure sensor - Monitors the pressure of the air in the intake manifold
The amount of air being drawn into the engine is a good indication of how much power it is producing; and the more air that goes into the engine, the lower the manifold pressure, so this reading is used to gauge how much power is being produced.

Engine speed sensor - Monitors engine speed, which is one of the factors used to calculate the pulse width

[ghosthunter]

Curiously, I had some interesting experience with the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor.

I connected a vacuum gauge to my engine's intake manifold. I used the MAP sensor tube with a "T" fitting. I started the engine and it ran kinda "wrong" (sluggish). I then transfered the T fitting to the hose leading to the fuel pressure regulator on the end of the fuel rail. Fired up the engine and everything is running fine and I have my vacuum gauge telling me what intake manifold pressure I am running on, usually anywhere between 20 inHg (idle) to 0 inHg (wide open throttle).

Anyway, the MAP sensor is important that it accurately measures the vacuum pressure, otherwise the engine will misbehave and produce low power.

Somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned that the intake manifold pressure was a steady 2 inHG vacuum pressure at any engine RPM when the device was installed.

I was wondering how was this accomplished?

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by ghosthunter
Maybe you should ask the inventor Mr. Planas since the device was "thoroughly tested". Given that fact, I'm sure he can lend you a 5 gas analyzer he used to test his device.

Sir,

natanong ko na po si Mr Planas dati pa, wala daw po siyang alam dito sa Pilipinas na 5 gas analyzer.

Iyon po sanang A/F guage so we can install it sa auto na tested with the device at any condition like idle, gear shifting, braking, high speed, etc, kasi po ang claim nga is 15:1 ang A/F all the time...

thanks and more POWER!

Odee

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by ghosthunter
Engine Sensors

In order to provide the correct amount of fuel for every operating condition, the engine control unit (ECU) has to monitor a huge number of input sensors. Here are just a few:

Mass airflow sensor - Tells the ECU the mass of air entering the engine

Oxygen sensor(s) - Monitors the amount of oxygen in the exhaust so the ECU can determine how rich or lean the fuel mixture is and make adjustments accordingly

Throttle position sensor - Monitors the throttle valve position (which determines how much air goes into the engine) so the ECU can respond quickly to changes, increasing or decreasing the fuel rate as necessary

Coolant temperature sensor - Allows the ECU to determine when the engine has reached its proper operating temperature

Voltage sensor - Monitors the system voltage in the car so the ECU can raise the idle speed if voltage is dropping (which would indicate a high electrical load)

Manifold absolute pressure sensor - Monitors the pressure of the air in the intake manifold
The amount of air being drawn into the engine is a good indication of how much power it is producing; and the more air that goes into the engine, the lower the manifold pressure, so this reading is used to gauge how much power is being produced.

Engine speed sensor - Monitors engine speed, which is one of the factors used to calculate the pulse width

Sir,

is there any chance that the Khaos (fuel saving device) can fool/cheat these sensors?

thanks and more POWER!

Odee

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by ghosthunter
Curiously, I had some interesting experience with the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor.

I connected a vacuum gauge to my engine's intake manifold. I used the MAP sensor tube with a "T" fitting. I started the engine and it ran kinda "wrong" (sluggish). I then transfered the T fitting to the hose leading to the fuel pressure regulator on the end of the fuel rail. Fired up the engine and everything is running fine and I have my vacuum gauge telling me what intake manifold pressure I am running on, usually anywhere between 20 inHg (idle) to 0 inHg (wide open throttle).

Anyway, the MAP sensor is important that it accurately measures the vacuum pressure, otherwise the engine will misbehave and produce low power.

Somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned that the intake manifold pressure was a steady 2 inHG vacuum pressure at any engine RPM when the device was installed.

I was wondering how was this accomplished?

Sir,

notice also that your vac reading increases momentarily to more than 20inHg after you release the throttle...

this is like simulating a gear shifting action or braking while driving...

Sir, please correct me if im wrong... the 20 inHG vac reading represents the amount of sucking in your intake manifold which is also an indication of how strong it sucks Air and Fuel... tama po ba?

thanks and more POWER!

Odee

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,
notice also that your vac reading increases momentarily to more than 20inHg after you release the throttle...

Actually, I did not notice a momentary increase in vac reading when I release the throttle. Does yours? My vac simply reads a gradual increase in vacuum pressure to between 15 to 20 inHg.

Sir, please correct me if im wrong... the 20 inHG vac reading represents the amount of sucking in your intake manifold which is also an indication of how strong it sucks Air and Fuel... tama po ba?

Actually the 20inHg indicates how strong the vacuum pressure is inside the intake manifold because of the closed (or partially open) butterfly valve. Once the butterfly valve is fully open (at any throttle position) the intake manifold pressure is about zero vacuum.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,
is there any chance that the Khaos (fuel saving device) can fool/cheat these sensors?

The device basically cheats the mass air flow sensor by introducing air into the intake that is not measured. That's why the engine would be running lean with the device installed.

The other devices would detect the changes.
-Manifold absolute pressure sensor (lower vacuum pressure)
-Oxygen sensor (leaner mixture)

In more complex closed-loop engine management systems, the ECU will use the data from the oxygen sensor and adjust the air-fuel mix to reach stoich levels, basically nullifying any changes by the device.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,
natanong ko na po si Mr Planas dati pa, wala daw po siyang alam dito sa Pilipinas na 5 gas analyzer.

so how did Mr Planas test his device for zero pollution claims?

Iyon po sanang A/F guage so we can install it sa auto na tested with the device at any condition like idle, gear shifting, braking, high speed, etc, kasi po ang claim nga is 15:1 ang A/F all the time...

you'll be dissappointed by the results.

[ghosthunter]

btw odie... you might want to read this...

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...threadid=15481

info*ns.nissan.com.ph
to me

9:41am
Dear Mr. Tamayo,

Thank you for the information in the website regarding the Khaos Super Turbo Charger.

First of all, it is Nissan's policy regarding new vehicle warranty that any modification, alteration or any part installed which is not Original Equipment (OE) as released by Nissan Motor Phils., Inc. (NMPI) in the market will void the warranty for the part or any affected part resulting in the mis-operation or lack of performance as a result of the said part.

As you mentioned in your email, "Khaos Super Turbo Charger, ostensibly a gas-saving device which by passes the mass air flow sensor on the vehicle", the operation of this device will by-pass the electronically controlled fuel injection system used by Nissan and therefore would constitute in the mis-operation of the engine management system.

Since this device is not properly tested for Nissan vehicles, we can not guarantee what adverse effects it might have on the vehicle's overall performance.

In view of the above, NMPI will issue a circular to all our dealers to cease and desist the use of any product similar to the Khaos Super Turbo Charger without the expressed written consent of NMPI.

Again, thank you very much for the information.


Sincerely,


Service & Customer Support Dept.

I guess this letter from NISSAN will NOT be appearing on your device's sales brochures, huh?

BUT!!!

It's mentioned by the Khaos sales brochure:

TESTED BY LEADING CAR MANUFACTURERS & GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
Khoas Super gas Saver has undergone the most rigid testing by leading car manufacterers and government agencies. Results show that Khaos can save up to 50% on gas consumption; increase engine power;and brings carbon monoxide levels down to zero.

So which car manufacturers are we talking about?

And those "rigid" tests, what tests were done since you did mention the LACK to testing equiptment to simply prove the claims of the device.

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by ghosthunter
[B]Actually, I did not notice a momentary increase in vac reading when I release the throttle. Does yours? My vac simply reads a gradual increase in vacuum pressure to between 15 to 20 inHg.



Actually the 20inHg indicates how strong the vacuum pressure is inside the intake manifold because of the closed (or partially open) butterfly valve. Once the butterfly valve is fully open (at any throttle position) the intake manifold pressure is about zero vacuum.

Sir,

i believe vac reading stabilizes to its original reading (say 17inHg initially) even at fully opened throttle position or when driving with a "floored" accelerator pedal...

[theveed]

ano kaya ending netong nobela na to hehe...

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,

i believe vac reading stabilizes to its original reading (say 17inHg initially) even at fully opened throttle position or when driving with a "floored" accelerator pedal...

all I can say is . . . . .


you can argue with my vac guage.

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by ghosthunter
[B]Actually, I did not notice a momentary increase in vac reading when I release the throttle. Does yours? My vac simply reads a gradual increase in vacuum pressure to between 15 to 20 inHg.



Actually the 20inHg indicates how strong the vacuum pressure is inside the intake manifold because of the closed (or partially open) butterfly valve. Once the butterfly valve is fully open (at any throttle position) the intake manifold pressure is about zero vacuum.

Sir,

I believe the vacuum reading (VR) will stabilize back to its original/initial reading of say, 17 inHg after a couple of seconds. meaning VR will only read zero very momentarily.