Gas saving device

[altec]

when you maintain such a lean burn, the positive side is better fuel economy, but the down side is a much shorter engine life span? So why didn't these engine manufacturers build their engines to withstand a higher operating temperature to make it more efficient?

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by raijuta
Sorry sir..im not proving anything..nagpopost lang po ako..ng result for this day...sorry if this message cause a negative impression... Di naman po ako nag drive recklessly...first time po kcing umabot ng 3k yung rpm ko...dahil laging hang 2k lang ako...just want to test this product kapag higher than 2k na yung rpm mo..

yung normal city driving ko po kc is 6-8KM/L after ng nlagyan ng device..,naging 12-13KM/L. Im just testing the product po..for the group..and will not get anything from it...

driving along macapagal hiway is NOT city driving.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by altec
when you maintain such a lean burn, the positive side is better fuel economy, but the down side is a much shorter engine life span? So why didn't these engine manufacturers build their engines to withstand a higher operating temperature to make it more efficient?

let me quote what I have posted...

Oxides of Nitrogen Emissions Caused by Lean Burn

In addition to the engine damage problems caused by lean burn, high combustion temperatures and an excess of oxygen cause the formation of oxides of nitrogen. The respiratory problems caused by air pollution are due in large part to these emissions.

Lean Burn - Why it is Usually Avoided

A side effect is a lower peak power for a given engine size.

==================

Honestly, would you buy a car with a ultra-lean burn 2.0 liter EFI engine that produces only 90hp while the typical 2.0 does 140hp?

Whatever car manufacturers are doing with their new cars & engines, it will not change the fact that our current engines are NOT ultra-lean burning engines. No device (like the KHAOS, etc) will change that fact.

:twak:

[raijuta]

Sir..I did not say na yung city driving na minemention ko is..yung macapagal..i just went there to test yung 3k rpm

yung city driving ko po is roxas blvd..then buendia..to makati...

Sorry po ulit for the confusion...

Originally posted by ghosthunter
driving along macapagal hiway is NOT city driving.

[niky]

Just get on with the testing... but the figures you are getting so far are not much different from what others can get without the device...

As ghosthunter has said here or in another of these threads (of which there are too many, IMHO...), you can get a 1-2 km/l change in mileage from changing driving styles or traffic. Over the past few days, I have seen my fuel consumption vary between 7.5 km/l to 11.5 km/l (doing the same trip every day in the same manner) due to variances in traffic conditions AND temperature.

I wonder, ghosthunter, what would happen if we did a static idling test or a static rolling test (with the car on a lift and with floor fans to keep the radiator cool)... this could be done easily in one place (in a shop, for instance) and would eliminate testing variances due to traffic, driving style and outside temperature.

Take the average of three runs both with and without device at a set rpm (controlled by a block-and-clamp assembly holding the throttle at a set position) and three runs at idle (but these would take so loooooooong), and then do dyno-pulls with both... (but these invariably have negative results for these devices anyway)...

Shop temperature and humidity should be relatively constant, and since these devices are mostly bolt-on, we do all six-runs (both with and without) of one type of device back-to-back-to-back, so as to eliminate any possible variances due to these conditions.

I suggest two sets of six... maybe at 2000rpm and 3500rpm... static runs of over 4000rpm might be too stressful for the radiator in a static set-up.

This would be witnessed by DOTC, media and car-group reps, with engines untuned by the installers, and with a single gasoline (sponsors, anyone?)

I know a couple of shops where this could be done, and I wonder why testing mentioned in news articles doesn't include tests like this.

[ghosthunter]

niky,

I'm game but I'm not volunteering my car to be a test bed for such a test... I've vaporized part of my piston head once before already.

Anyway, what you describe sounds what you wuold be doing in a dyno test facility.

But frankly, why waste time on a device that can be simulated by re-tuning the engine for less money? Much worst, why let a device that can unknowingly damage an engine (in an expensive way) get more publicity. Theoretically, it can improve milage but there is a bigger chance that it would cause internal damage.

Basically if we compare this to a human being, this is like taking a miracle weight loss drug that can cause cancer in a few years.

[mazdamazda]

ghost / niky,

how can you measure the bad side effects of a lean burning engine? compression testing? dyno run?

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by mazdamazda
ghost / niky,

how can you measure the bad side effects of a lean burning engine? compression testing? dyno run?

measure the bad effects?

Do a long hard drive. Capture a sample of the exhaust gasses during the drive. Test the exhaust gasses for increased NOx emissions. Open the engine block and do a visual and microscopic inspection of the piston heads for damage.

A dyno run will simply show less HP.

Compression test will show nothing unless damage is severe enough already.

[blugsr98]

just wanna share my result for M/T 1.6L

data having khaos:
10.21km/l - 4000-5000rpm shifting gear (i tried to be consistent all throughout till i had my tank refilled). this would be the worst case.
13.279km/l - 2500rpm shifting gear
10.41km/l - traffic condition (las pinas), may kasamang sudden acceleration, hataw sa counter flow, and pauwi ng cavite considered mixed driving. btw, above data were based on 47km, 50km, and 95km respectively.

without khaos, nung nakuha ko ang car (2nd hand kasi). i also made this checking on gas consumption. 6-7km/l, 9-10km/l, 7-8km/l respectively.

let me know if you anything in mind on how we really could check the effectiveness of this product. thanks!

btw, i'm with the same group as raijuta mentioned. kaming dalawa yung currently nag-te-test ng product for the group. hope this info helps...

[ian_rex]

pero alam nyo guys kung ano ang pinaka effective na pangpatipid? driving style. i read it somewhere in the motoring section of PDI, racecar drivers shared their secrets.

[FrankDrebin]

Sabi ko na nga ba na "SAKAL" lang ang ginagawa nyang Khaos thingey na yan. Talagang titipid nga ang konsumo mo ng fuel nyan kaya lang in the long run baka premature engine overhaul ang makuha mong konsumo.

[ian_rex]

well, honestly ako di ako naniniwala din sa mga ganyan e. isa pa, mavo-void lang ang warranty (kung meron) kaya sorry sila. anyway, opinion lang po.

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by FrankDrebin
Sabi ko na nga ba na "SAKAL" lang ang ginagawa nyang Khaos thingey na yan. Talagang titipid nga ang konsumo mo ng fuel nyan kaya lang in the long run baka premature engine overhaul ang makuha mong konsumo.

tumpak ang inyong napagtanto kapatid!

[ian_rex]

tama. kasi, basically, ang engines product yan ng years of research. when you add some mods to it, yun na ang simula ng kalbaryo, naku lalo na kapag lagay lang ng lagay at walang research. :D

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by ian_rex
pero alam nyo guys kung ano ang pinaka effective na pangpatipid? driving style. i read it somewhere in the motoring section of PDI, racecar drivers shared their secrets.

very true... changing one's driving style will cost you nothing and can save you as much gas as any if those so-called gas saving devices.

[niky]

Hmmm... I was going to say something about warranty-voiding, engine-life and horsepower modifications, but I just remembered...

Most horsepower increasing/optimizing mods come at the expense of slightly higher maintenance and slightly decreased engine life, but since modifiers are aiming at power, not economy, this is not a big concern. Besides, most tuner engines expire from misuse and not wear... after surviving stuff that normal engines would cringe at.

It just seems counterproductive / intuitive to put anything on your car that would decrease engine life for economy's sake... it may not destroy the car outright, but a few months or years down the road, increased oil consumption and spark plug wear may come back to bite the owners... then the savings will quickly evaporate to be replaced by problems.

I thought it was strange that car companies were keeping quiet about this, but when you think about it, they realized they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they keep quiet, people will buy it. If they say something, people will say that they're against the device because "blah-blah-blah-putting down indigenous inventors-blah-blah-blah". But as long as they keep quiet, people will still come back to them when something goes wrong... then they can patiently explain why the car got so f*cked up in the first place.

[OTEP]

My friend just put one of those fuel saving device thingies on his Expedition.

Approved by the Ford dealer daw kasi.

Naaawa tuloy ako sa kanya.

[FrankDrebin]

OTEP,

Hehehe. Kawawa nga yung friend mo. Bumili ng Expi tapos nagtitipid sa gas. Hindi ko makuha yung logic? ;)

[OTEP]

Dati ko pa kasi pinagsasabihan na mag-Patrol na lang siya and get a diesel. Gusto ata yung 'prestige' ng Expedition. Sabi ko hindi niya magagamit araw araw yung (much like our Expedition that is not often used).

Bumili pa din ng Expy tapos bumili ng Ranger after a few months kasi mahirap at magastos na daily driver yung Expedition. hehehe.

[luckytruck]

naku otep, na - doble pa gastos ng kaibigan mo.

yung ginawa ko ang pinaka magandang gas saving device, switched from an F150 na 4x4 to a gen 2 pajero. m saving at least P1000 a week in fuel, di pa kasama maintennance costs

hanep ang results

medyo, not as much wow factor, but its better to have more money in your pocket at the end of the month

andy