Mitsubishi Montero Sudden Acceleration Accidents [MERGED]

[vvti2.0]

cars are designed ergonomically also, tulad ng mga american cars, they are designed as per the average people measurement with in their market.

now kung yung paa ng driver ng montero e paang luya, di problema ng MMC yun kasi di naman average na ang paa e hugis luya hehe.

How can we be sure that the Montero pedal positioning ergonomically designed nga? So dapat isa rin ito sa subject for investigation? Tayo lang ba ang left hand drive na montero?

[xagent_orangex]

How can we be sure that the Montero pedal positioning ergonomically designed nga? So dapat isa rin ito sa subject for investigation? Tayo lang ba ang left hand drive na montero?

ergonomically designed as per the "average" human measurements of people in the region, say for asia. of course the design process will not be from zero, copying from a previous model (that was designed also) will do.

what i am saying is that, kung sobrang lapad ng paa ng driver ng montero na yun, aba e talagang sasabit nga ang paa niya sa mga pedals. anyway, it doesn't matter naman, yung isang video (TV patrol north, yung ilocano yung dialect) na napanuod ko at nakapost din dito, kahit pa i-floor yung accelerator ay hindi aarangkada basta nakatapak sa preno.

[Turbocharger]

Anyway, ang issue na ganito na mga may deperensya at denial ng mga manufacturers about sa issue ay di na bago at di lang sa Mitsubishi at sa mga owners.

Hello, Toyota, yung unang release ng D4D, wala pala issue eh pinalitan nila design ng SCV sa mga sumunod na revision. Kaway rin sa Toyota ulit sa todo deny na issue sa design ng fuel system ng Innova VVTi na nagkakavacuum sa loob.

At wag rin natin kalimutan yung mga owners na todo deny rin na wala issue Toyota nila at maintenance issues lang yun sa mga owners na na encounter yung ganun na issue.

Third world country tayo, hindi uso ang recall, unless mauna mag recall yung mga developed countries na may issue yung same na part na na-install sa kanila (hello Toyota airbag recall).

I couldn't agree more on the Toyota Issue, but the difference comparing the Montero with the Toyota concern is yung Toyota AYAW TUMAKBO TUMITIRIK....yung Montero HINDI PA PINATATAKBO HUMAHARUROT NA!!:drive1:

[Junesp111]

Sir, ang alam ko lang na may sensor at line redundancy ay mga aerospace equipments at mga lumlipad, pwede ba sir pakilinaw sa akin kung san may sensor redundancy yung mga common or regular vehicles (not the ones used in racing or very high end cars). Sensors are tuned to different voltages? Ano ibgi sabihin mo sir? Sir, ang sensors ng sasakyan ay most of the time resistance based, may constant voltage injection yan at naka voltage divider sa fixed resistance, at ang nagbabasa nyan ay analog to digital converter, any abnormal fluctuation sa resistance na yan ay most of the time amplified sa input ng analog to digital converter.

And wala rin ako alam na sasakyan na yung mga sensor ay at least nakakabit man lang sa mga instrumentation amplifiers para at least maalis ang common mode noise bago pumasok sa microcontroller.

Sorry for being to technical here. Even the algorithm of vehicles does not practice redundant readings or averaging readings, kasi kung gagawin nya yan, babagal ang reaction ng sasakyan mo, umapak ka na, nagkukwenta pa ang computer box mo bago sya magreact, and that is the reason bakit naka MAP na lahat ng itatapon rin na data ng sasakyan mo, para di na sya magkwenta.

Parang cartesian coordinate lang yan, yung mga inputs mo ay nasa X,Y,Z axis, at kung san mag meet yung point na yun, yung ang output nya.

redundant:

used to describe part of a machine, system, etc., that has the same function as another part and that exists so that the entire machine, system, etc., will not fail if the main part fails

[Monseratto]

DTI Expert/comedian Witness...



^^^Face palm...

[vvti2.0]

redundant:

used to describe part of a machine, system, etc., that has the same function as another part and that exists so that the entire machine, system, etc., will not fail if the main part fails

Alam namin sir ang meaning ng redundant sensor. Ang tanung namin, saan part ng makina merong redundant na sensor ang sasakyan.

Kasi kakabasa ko ng repair manual ng Toyota, wala ako nakikita na naka redundant na sensor. At sa totoo lang, di lang sensor ang ginagawang redundant if you want na masiguro ang safety, pati mga harness, ginagawang redundant yan, mga brakelines ganun din, etc.

Di ko ma-imagine na yung TPS, MAF, MAP, O2 sensor, crankshaft positioning sensor, accelerator pedal sensor, lahat ng sensor ay dalawa, sigurado, lugi ka sa maintenance at ang tendency rin natin, kung sira yung primary, i-swap natin yung secondary huwahaahha!

[Junesp111]

Brake throttle override ang tawag dyan. According to some post here 2012 Montero have this feature di ko lang alam kung meron ring ganitong feature and glx.

Yap wala ngang redundant sensors ang mga sasakyan natin otherwise iiyak ka sa mahal ng sasakyan.

Edit...

Pag walang brake throttle override ang sasakyan mo at mataas ang torque ng makina eh ma overpower talaga ang brake. Tulad ng sabi mo wala ring kagat.

To check Brake throttle override. position your gear to neutral, short the Accelerator pedal signal wire to 5 volts, then press the brake pedal, pag nag slowdown yung revolution ng engine then yung Brake throttle override ay gumagana.

[vvti2.0]

DTI Expert/comedian Witness...



Face palm...

Kung engineer yan, langya soli na nya lisensya nya. Amputek.

Bakit ba naman kasi Mechanical Engineer ang kunin na witness, hindi naman ganun kabroad ang knowledge nila sa electrical at electronics.

[frostmourn]

Bakit kaya ang tindi ng mga nakuhang experts ng DTI. Lagi ko pa man din carwash si monty. Lol. Oh ito.


2013 santa fe. Bakit di ito pinuputakte ng balita? Hahaha. Di na ako magtataka kung after ng mitsu hyundai naman. 😂 langyang media yan. Santa fe wuut ah.

[ClaNker]

Bakit kaya ang tindi ng mga nakuhang experts ng DTI. Lagi ko pa man din carwash si monty. Lol. Oh ito.


2013 santa fe. Bakit di ito pinuputakte ng balita? Hahaha. Di na ako magtataka kung after ng mitsu hyundai naman. 😂 langyang media yan. Santa fe wuut ah.

Ano pa nga ba ang dapat asahan natin sa DTI. Walang pera yan para kumuha ng matinik na expert, kaya ayan carwash daw.

Engine wash siguro ang ibig mo sabihin Engr. Araga.

[ClaNker]

To check Brake throttle override. position your gear to neutral, short the Accelerator pedal signal wire to 5 volts, then press the brake pedal, pag nag slowdown yung revolution ng engine then yung Brake throttle override ay gumagana.

Thanks for the tip.

[niky]

Sir, ang alam ko lang na may sensor at line redundancy ay mga aerospace equipments at mga lumlipad, pwede ba sir pakilinaw sa akin kung san may sensor redundancy yung mga common or regular vehicles (not the ones used in racing or very high end cars). Sensors are tuned to different voltages? Ano ibgi sabihin mo sir? Sir, ang sensors ng sasakyan ay most of the time resistance based, may constant voltage injection yan at naka voltage divider sa fixed resistance, at ang nagbabasa nyan ay analog to digital converter, any abnormal fluctuation sa resistance na yan ay most of the time amplified sa input ng analog to digital converter.

And wala rin ako alam na sasakyan na yung mga sensor ay at least nakakabit man lang sa mga instrumentation amplifiers para at least maalis ang common mode noise bago pumasok sa microcontroller.

Sorry for being to technical here. Even the algorithm of vehicles does not practice redundant readings or averaging readings, kasi kung gagawin nya yan, babagal ang reaction ng sasakyan mo, umapak ka na, nagkukwenta pa ang computer box mo bago sya magreact, and that is the reason bakit naka MAP na lahat ng itatapon rin na data ng sasakyan mo, para di na sya magkwenta.

Parang cartesian coordinate lang yan, yung mga inputs mo ay nasa X,Y,Z axis, at kung san mag meet yung point na yun, yung ang output nya.

I am very familiar with engine maps. I've tuned cars on the dyno.

Also: You have to read up on the tech. Vehicles do use redundant sensors for electronic controls.

During the Toyota SUA hearings, it was made public that electronic pedals use two sensors.

Toyotas sensors are set at different voltages. One runs from 0.5 to 4.5V. The other from 1 to 5V. They will always be reading different voltages through the range of motion of the pedal.

Some manufacturers use reversed sensors... one reading 0-5V, the other reading 5-0V as the pedal is run through its range of motion.

If you have an error in one sensor, or a short circuit between the two, the car throws a CEL and goes into limp mode.

If you want the specifics:

http://www.silent-cities.com/L200for...D5_STEPIII.pdf

Right there. The Mitsubishi 4D5-series engines uses two accelerator position sensors.

Now if only some of the so-called experts spouting nonsense on air would spend at least half-an-hour familiarizing themselves with data that is so readily available...

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*as a side note, regarding engine sensors, there are those that are both redundant and non-redundant... thanks to stored fuel maps, most engines can ignore O2 sensor readings (easy way to prevent an ECU from "learning" around fuel map tuning), simply defaulting to the "normal" map rather than adjusting short term (and eventually long term) fuel trims around changes in air-fuel ratio as measured at the exhaust.

On the intake side, most engines use a single MAF or MAP sensor, but increasingly, modern engines are using both the Mass Air Flow and Air Pressure sensors to fine tune combustion.

Other, simpler sensors have no redundancy... crank and cam position sensors... have no back-up. Manufacturers expect these simple sensors to last a long time, though, as those of us in the Ford Club found out, the cam position sensor is a PITA when it starts acting up.

Di ko sure paps, may mga claims na ang brake systems raw meron na sa ngayun ang modern cars na may ECU.

Wala naman compalin na di gumana ang brakes, gumagana ang brakes, pero kung the SUA is true, kahit pa anung kagat ng caliper mo, kung mas malakas ang torque ng differential mo, wala rin kagat yan.

Pagdating sa makina, wala ako alam na redundant na sensor. Kahit nga yung sa drive by wire, ang sensor mo dun ay yung resistance na output ng pedal mo, at sa kakabasa ko ng repair manual ng Toyota (sorry not Mitsubishi), eh di rin redundant.

You have to look up the videos for that, too. No manufacturer produces a car that can accelerate itself if the driver is pressing on the brakes.

You can spin up the rear tires of a really powerful car while standing on the brakes (the Mustang comes to mind...), but the car still won't move. In a braking situation, there is more traction on the front tires, and this will slow the vehicle down. The brakes might overheat before they stop the car if it is going full bore at high speed, but this is obviously not the situation in the parking lot.

Again, the women on the highway, that's another matter. If the SUA occurs at speed, the brake fluid can sometimes boil if the driver does not hold the brakes down hard enough to stop the car right away.

May kaibigan ako na may autosupply at may talyer rin, sabi nya pwedeng ang SUA ay due to driver rin dahil nga raw sa position ng accelerator, so still ergonomics issue, and ergonomics issue is a manufacturers issue. Still, it is a subject for a manufacturer's recall.

Ergonomic issues are possible, but the Mitsubishi pedal box is not categorically different from most Japanese pedal boxes designed in the 90's / 00's. Pedal entrapment or sticking may be an issue, but having driven a lot of Monteros and Stradas, (and Forts, and Hiluxes, and D-Max/Alterra/Mu-X/Trailblazer/Colorado, and Everest/Ranger, etcetera ad nauseum), I can tell you they're all pretty much similar.

The one ergonomic gaffe, really, is the straight shifter... but most cars on the road use straight shifter gates. Very few use stepped gates, nowadays (or the even more bizarre J-gate from the Jags).

I checked with a formerly active tsikot member who owns a shop. Sa mga monty na napalitan nya ng inhibitor switch, odod readings ranged from 30 to 50k.

Any years that are more common? Was looking up this issue while doing this month's Used Car article. I knew it was a common issue, but I didn't know it happened as early as 30k!

[spotdog11]

Brake throttle override ang tawag dyan. According to some post here 2012 Montero have this feature di ko lang alam kung meron ring ganitong feature and glx.

Yap wala ngang redundant sensors ang mga sasakyan natin otherwise iiyak ka sa mahal ng sasakyan.

Edit...

Pag walang brake throttle override ang sasakyan mo at mataas ang torque ng makina eh ma overpower talaga ang brake. Tulad ng sabi mo wala ring kagat.

Fact: The brakes are stronger than the engine. Check out these links:
The Trouble with Unintended Acceleration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOMYjiCiTYg

[ClaNker]

Fact: The brakes are stronger than the engine. Check out these links:
The Trouble with Unintended Acceleration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOMYjiCiTYg

Of course the brakes will eventually overpower the engine and will take a bit longer on a torque y engine.

Let's put things in context... SUA ka sa kalye or parking areas dito sa pinas, I don't think your brakes will be able to stop you in a nick of time. That's why they developed the brake throttle override.

[kisshmet]

Ano pa nga ba ang dapat asahan natin sa DTI. Walang pera yan para kumuha ng matinik na expert, kaya ayan carwash daw.

Engine wash siguro ang ibig mo sabihin Engr. Araga.

that person could be refering to an interchange of the floor mats that could possibly result in entanglement of the accelerator pedal after vacuuming the interior of the car which is part and parcel of a car wash service

some cleaners are not familiar with proper shape of the floor mat for the driver side or simply haphazardly return the mat without bothering to check. the mat for the passenger side ends up into the driver side instead

[spotdog11]

Of course the brakes will eventually overpower the engine and will take a bit longer on a torque y engine.

Let's put things in context... SUA ka sa kalye or parking areas dito sa pinas, I don't think your brakes will be able to stop you in a nick of time. That's why they developed the brake throttle override.

The brakes will hold sir. Tested that on several cars already. As sir Niky pointed out, even a mustang would not move if the brakes are applied and the accelerator floored.

[sandman78]

pasikatin na natin ang kupal na gagong yan. promo diser lang pala sa toys r us. meron nagpost pic nya naka uniform. wala pambili sasakyan then ang lakas mag coment[emoji35]

[sandman78]

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[vvti2.0]

Of course the brakes will eventually overpower the engine and will take a bit longer on a torque y engine.

Let's put things in context... SUA ka sa kalye or parking areas dito sa pinas, I don't think your brakes will be able to stop you in a nick of time. That's why they developed the brake throttle override.

May tanung ako mga paps, may idle up tayo di ba? At di mo kailangan ang pag apak sa accelerator, para tumaas ang throttle mo, so it just means na ang nagpapadala ng data sa throttle mo ay ECU based sa map nya lamang na based rin sa nababasa nya sa external sensors except sa accelerator. Di kaya may sensor/s na nagpapadala ng erroneous data sa ECU para RPM nya ay isagad pataas?

[ClaNker]

The brakes will hold sir. Tested that on several cars already. As sir Niky pointed out, even a mustang would not move if the brakes are applied and the accelerator floored.

From full stop ba yan? Any car will not move from full stop with brakes on and accelerator floored.

Iba ang tumatakbo na ang sasakyan ha. Mas mahaba ang stopping distance mo pag apply mo nang brakes with full open throttle. Di hamak na mas shorter stopping distance pag may brake throttle override ang car mo, para kang nag neutral nyan then punch the brakes.