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  1. Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    694
    #91
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Mas mahal for sure vs a 1.5 NA that already has so much spare parts and supply chain set up. Even if the L15B is DOHC vs SOHC L15A, most parts are interchangeable.

    For reference, Ecosport 1.5 NA is 1.1M. 1.0 Ecoboost is 1.19M. So 90k difference.

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    That 90k difference cannot be totally attributed to the turbo engine alone. May dinagdag pa siguro na ibang features yung Ford sa ecosport na 1.0 ecoboost vs the 1.5 kaya nagkaroon 90k difference.

  2. Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    966
    #92
    Back in 2008 the 1.3 i-Dsi City S CVT sold for 660k, when they launched the 1.3 i-VTEC 4th Quarter of that year had a launch price of 760k. Other than the different design and engine tech, the main "spec" difference I found back then was the additional airbags. I forgot if it was 4 or 6.

    So just with napkin math and using a 3% annual inflation rate, 2013 would have inflated the 760k price to 880k.
    Using 2% inflation - 2015, 873k, 2016 890k

    So, price wise ng 1.5S CVT 2021 City at 878k at least can "make sense" as it is beating the inflation rate. You got a newer and bigger engine, more features I think compared to that 2008/2009 1.3 i-VTEC City.

    EDIT: I was curious what the difference size was as well.

    2009 City i-VTEC 4395 / 1695 / 1470
    2021 City (L/W/H) 4553 / 1748 / 1467

    Compare it with a 2001 Compact Sedan (Toyota Altis) 4530 / 1705 / 1500

    So, with the above data, I would actually say, the City is a true compact sedan as it is similar size of the 2001 Altis. It is no longer a subcompact as we had come to know it.

  3. Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    16,551
    #93
    Quote Originally Posted by hardwang View Post
    That 90k difference cannot be totally attributed to the turbo engine alone. May dinagdag pa siguro na ibang features yung Ford sa ecosport na 1.0 ecoboost vs the 1.5 kaya nagkaroon 90k difference.
    Yup pero bottomline mas maliit kita kung turbo ipapasok tapos hindi itataas presyo. Even assuming 30-50k lang incremental cost of the turbo, that's already their whole margin per car (around 5-10% lang ang tubo for ~1M peso cars).

    #2, noone gives a crap. How many people bought Ecoboost Ecosports/Fiestas vs the cheaper NA variants?

    #3 - performance isn't as good on paper as it is in actuality. Posted a link above of how subjectively the turbo feels laggy which negates the flatter torque curve. Now with DOHC, the L15 also has a flatter powerband so the difference might not be huge.

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  4. Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    16,551
    #94
    Quote Originally Posted by 17Sphynx17 View Post
    Back in 2008 the 1.3 i-Dsi City sold for 660k, when they launched the 1.3 i-VTEC 4th Quarter of that year had a launch price of 760k. Other than the different design and engine tech, the main "spec" difference I found back then was the additional airbags. I forgot if it was 4 or 6.

    So just with napkin math and using a 3% annual inflation rate, 2013 would have inflated the 760k price to 880k.
    Using 2% inflation - 2015, 873k, 2016 890k

    So, price wise ng 1.5S CVT 2021 City at 878k at least can "make sense" as it is beating the inflation rate. You got a newer and bigger engine, more features I think compared to that 2008/2009 1.3 i-VTEC City.
    That's the advantage of sourcing from Thailand vs local assembly. Around 75k per car natitipid kung iimport nalang.

    So kahit nagbaba sila presyo (VX vs V, VX+ vs RS), HCP still has better margins with this new model.

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  5. Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    694
    #95
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Yup pero bottomline mas maliit kita kung turbo ipapasok tapos hindi itataas presyo. Even assuming 30-50k lang incremental cost of the turbo, that's already their whole margin per car (around 5-10% lang ang tubo for ~1M peso cars).

    #2, noone gives a crap. How many people bought Ecoboost Ecosports/Fiestas vs the cheaper NA variants?

    #3 - performance isn't as good on paper as it is in actuality. Posted a link above of how subjectively the turbo feels laggy which negates the flatter torque curve. Now with DOHC, the L15 also has a flatter powerband so the difference might not be huge.

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    #2 dunno but Iím still seeing quite a number of old fiesta ecoboosts running around. May mga bumili naman because of the hype before. New ecosport wala na masyado. Pwede naman siguro sa city RS, naka turbo hehe. For sure, the RS wonít be the best seller even with the 1.5L NA.

    #3 Iíve been seeing videos where the 1.0 turbo city does 0-100km/h in less than 9 seconds. So acceleration to 100km/h, ok naman. Canít say anything about turbo lag because we havenít have the opportunity to drive a 1.0 honda turbo yet.

  6. Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,626
    #96
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Yup pero bottomline mas maliit kita kung turbo ipapasok tapos hindi itataas presyo. Even assuming 30-50k lang incremental cost of the turbo, that's already their whole margin per car (around 5-10% lang ang tubo for ~1M peso cars).

    #2, noone gives a crap. How many people bought Ecoboost Ecosports/Fiestas vs the cheaper NA variants?

    #3 - performance isn't as good on paper as it is in actuality. Posted a link above of how subjectively the turbo feels laggy which negates the flatter torque curve. Now with DOHC, the L15 also has a flatter powerband so the difference might not be huge.

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    Exception ata ako sa mga Fiesta buyers before. The same way why we bought the XT over the Forester NA. Hehehe

    I did test drive the car before buying one. Despite the turbo lag, the 1.0L definitely pulls better than a 1.5L NA. Specs state that torque peak starts at 1700 rpm but you can feel the car start pulling ahead at 2k rpm. When the engine is cold, the lag is more felt as you need to rev the car to 2500 rpm to give it a shove.

    One of the best things about the Fiesta is its steering feel and response. The Jazz and City feels soft and light with its steering. The Fiesta felt firm and precise. It was even better than the steering feel of my XT. Among the Hondaís I have driven, the Accord feels best in terms of steering responsiveness. However, most people like their cars to have a softer steering feel.


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  7. Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    #97
    Quote Originally Posted by hardwang View Post
    #2 dunno but Iím still seeing quite a number of old fiesta ecoboosts running around. May mga bumili naman because of the hype before. New ecosport wala na masyado. Pwede naman siguro sa city RS, naka turbo hehe. For sure, the RS wonít be the best seller even with the 1.5L NA.

    #3 Iíve been seeing videos where the 1.0 turbo city does 0-100km/h in less than 9 seconds. So acceleration to 100km/h, ok naman. Canít say anything about turbo lag because we havenít have the opportunity to drive a 1.0 honda turbo yet.
    Personally I wouldn't mind that the RS is 1.1M tapos may 1.0 turbo engine vs 1.068M now with a 1.5.

    But then again from a business perspective that would mean carrying more parts for a second engine altogether. That entails inventory and training costs plus a reduction in scale efficiencies of the L15B.

    As an enthusiast, it's easy to wish for the 1.0 turbo but from a business perspective I get why the lineup is one-engined only.

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  8. Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    #98
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Personally I wouldn't mind that the RS is 1.1M tapos may 1.0 turbo engine vs 1.068M now with a 1.5.

    But then again from a business perspective that would mean carrying more parts for a second engine altogether. That entails inventory and training costs plus a reduction in scale efficiencies of the L15B.

    As an enthusiast, it's easy to wish for the 1.0 turbo but from a business perspective I get why the lineup is one-engined only.

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    The same reason why HondaPH decided to drop the L13 engine from the City and Jazz. It is easier for inventory management.


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  9. Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Egan101 View Post
    Exception ata ako sa mga Fiesta buyers before. The same way why we bought the XT over the Forester NA. Hehehe

    I did test drive the car before buying one. Despite the turbo lag, the 1.0L definitely pulls better than a 1.5L NA. Specs state that torque peak starts at 1700 rpm but you can feel the car start pulling ahead at 2k rpm. When the engine is cold, the lag is more felt as you need to rev the car to 2500 rpm to give it a shove.

    One of the best things about the Fiesta is its steering feel and response. The Jazz and City feels soft and light with its steering. The Fiesta felt firm and precise. It was even better than the steering feel of my XT. Among the Hondaís I have driven, the Accord feels best in terms of steering responsiveness. However, most people like their cars to have a softer steering feel.


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    Fiesta 1.5 vs 1.0, hands down the 1.0 turbo is better by a mile. Sarap idrive ng Fiesta 1.0, feels like a go-kart with unrelenting pull (unlike Accent na nauubos).

    But again, not the same case for the Honda 1.5 vs 1.0:
    22 Honda City - Why we'd rather have the 1.5L NA engine over the 1.L Turbo | Wapcar

    On paper, the 1.0-litre turbo engine wipes the floor with the 1.5-litre NA engine. Itís more fuel efficient whilst making more power and torque.
    Having tested the 1.0-litre turbo, it didnít translate those figures well in real-world driving. It felt lazy and it struggles to sustain high speeds. Plus, you canít escape the inherent vibrate-y character.
    As far as driving experience is concerned, itís not an improvement over the 1.5-litre NA engine.

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  10. Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,626
    #100
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Fiesta 1.5 vs 1.0, hands down the 1.0 turbo is better by a mile. Sarap idrive ng Fiesta 1.0, feels like a go-kart with unrelenting pull (unlike Accent na nauubos).

    But again, not the same case for the Honda 1.5 vs 1.0:
    22 Honda City - Why we'd rather have the 1.5L NA engine over the 1.L Turbo | Wapcar




    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    Korek ka dyan bro! The Fiesta Ecoboost feels like a daily go kart. Once the torque picks up and you keep that pressure on the accelerator, the engine loves to rev to redline. Downside though is that suspension feels firm, very uncomfortable for the rear passengers if the driver is a bit aggressive.

    Once in SLEX, an Accent CRDI tried to go toe-to-toe with me. The gap widened as I was going past 150 kmh. Itís either the Accent CRDi ran out of steam or the driver ran out of nerves.


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