E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[ghosthunter]

i'm actually addressing the issue of older cars. it should not be the reason for putting back regular gasoline (those without ethanol).

I am looking at it from an economics point of view. Not just older model cars. Simply the drop in fuel mileage can have unseen/unnoticed economic effects.

Can you imagine that because gasoline is now all E10, we have to spend 5% to 10% (estimated) more on fuel.

So if your average monthly fuel bill is P5000, you can look at an increase in fuel cost alone by P3000 to P6000 annually. That money has to come from somewhere. That might be from allocation for food, education, or savings.

anyway, there are pros and cons in using ethanol or biofuels in general. to look at the tail pipe emissions as mere basis for comparison will underestimate potential benefits (or costs for that matter). other sources of benefits for using such fuels maybe high enough to offset costs of additional pollution. and that excess benefit can be used to mitigate additional pollution. in the end, we may have net benefit. again, this is just hypothetical. it may be true, it may not be true.

Personally, I would rather leave the pros and cons discussion to the first world countries. Let them sort it out for us. They have the time and money for such studies anyway.

I would also prefer to look at bio-fuels beyond the tail-pipe.

The cost of producing enough bio-fuel like ethanol will be costly. And it is unclear that there is actually a net savings of fuel after the fuel production cycle is complete. Some studies (in the USA) have said that it takes MORE fuel to produce 1 liter of ethanol.

Another point is the net effect on farmlands as more land is used to grow fuel crops instead of food crops. Honestly, our agricultural base is not strong enough to supply both food and fuel crops without affecting the other. Until now we still feel the effects of last year's typhoons.

We can't even grow enough rice to feed ourselves. In respect to that fact, do you think we can grow enough fuel crops? Obviously no, and we end up importing more (expensive) fuel.

other than the environment, concerns like the economy especially in relation to jobs are heavily debated upon. and i agree that the Philippines needs to study this matter further.

The Philippines needs to restudy the clean air act and suspend it's implementation while it is under review.

[fourtheboys96]

the Argonne Laboratory in the US already debunked the myth about energy balance in ethanol production. the energy in 1 liter of ethanol is more than the amount of energy used to produce it.

on the food vs energy issue, i definitely agree it exists. that is why i said we should study this further. we definitely cannot supply all our biofuel needs without adversely affecting food security.

however, the problem lies in the type of biomass currently needed to produce ethanol. starch and sugar found in food crops are usually the requirement. maybe in the future, we can use ligno-cellulosic materials as raw materials. it means farm by-products such as corn stover, bagasse, etc will serve as the raw material. currently, these materials can actually yield ethanol but in very low percentages.

anyway, if i have the authority to decide on these, i'd rather reduce the number of vehicles plying our roads.

[CVT]

With 10% ethanol, which is cheaper than gas,- theoretically, the price per liter of e10-blended gasoline should be lower (vs. if it were pure gasoline). Now, is it?...

9202:toothbrush:

[ghosthunter]

With 10% ethanol, which is cheaper than gas,- theoretically, the price per liter of e10-blended gasoline should be lower (vs. if it were pure gasoline). Now, is it?...

E10 gasoline might look cheaper than regular gasoline (pump prices) but you need to burn more to go the same distance.

With that, where is the actual savings? Even the environment suffers because you have to burn more fuel causing more emissions.

[lenlen]

e10 is all about politics and making money.

[talgeese]

Going back, are there any gas stations who still use non E-10 gasoline? Because as of last night, Caltex Gold, Petron XCS are already E-10 blended. I was able to fill up my 1990 Corolla GL with City Oil's Extra Power. They said it's not yet with E-10. Thank You.

[pup2]

e10 is all about politics and making money.

I agree. Simply put, the sugar lobby led by Zubiri won the day. Look at how high the price of sugar is now.

He even thought he'd win 'green' pogi points ... until the smog came around.

Dati maari pa sabihing pampatipid ng forex reserves, but such is not a problem anymore. In the end, sugar lobby at oil companies (na hindi nagbaba ng presyo) lang ang panalo (not even the farmers) -- ang motorista, environment, etc. either talo or tabla.

[CVT]

And not all EFI engines are E10 compatible.

toyota has announced that all Altis ZZ 2005 and newer are E10 compatible. Older models are not. So our EFI VVTi 2001 ZZ is not E10 compatible

Deym!

So, what are the highly-paid think tanks in the government doing???

9303:grin2:

[baludoy]

And not all EFI engines are E10 compatible.

toyota has announced that all Altis ZZ 2005 and newer are E10 compatible. Older models are not. So our EFI VVTi 2001 ZZ is not E10 compatible

so true. even my beloved 1996 ek vti isn't compatible. but the ones released post 1998 civics are ok w/ it. kaya puro petron blaze na lang pakarga ko even though it's more expensive

for a complete list of honda models w/c are e10 compatible, refer to this: http://www.hondaphil.com/ver2/e10.php

[redeemed]

peeps, where do small players get their gasoline? do they have refineries para makaproduce ng non-E10 blended gasoline? or they're getting it from big players pa din? tapos, they have pump saying na E-10 FREE pero meron pala kasi nga wala naman silang refineries. what do you think guys?

currently, i'm using Blaze since meron ng E-10 ang XCS. nag-aalangan kasi ako sa mga small players, baka yung non-E10 blended nila (kuno), e meron pala.

[CVT]

peeps, where do small players get their gasoline? do they have refineries para makaproduce ng non-E10 blended gasoline? or they're getting it from big players pa din? tapos, they have pump saying na E-10 FREE pero meron pala kasi nga wala naman silang refineries. what do you think guys?

currently, i'm using Blaze since meron ng E-10 ang XCS. nag-aalangan kasi ako sa mga small players, baka yung non-E10 blended nila (kuno), e meron pala.

That is true, bro.

I have identified a gas station (UniOil, Sucat) which claimed pure gasoline in their product, this afternoon. I will then gas up my Oct09 City and will monitor its rate of fuel consumption (based on my experience I can fairly distinguish between e10 and pure gasoline on this ride). Will advice as soon as I have the data on this.

9505:spam:

[aejhayl17]

may question pala ako: can E10 spoil when in use in a daily basis? a full tank on my car last for atleast three weeks

[ghosthunter]

may question pala ako: can E10 spoil when in use in a daily basis? a full tank on my car last for atleast three weeks

I think yes.

A tank of Shell Unleaded E10 went "bad" in my tank in four weeks. My corolla uses LPG as its primary fuel so the gasoline in the fuel tank isn't used much.

[aejhayl17]

I think yes.

A tank of Shell Unleaded E10 went "bad" in my tank in four weeks. My corolla uses LPG as its primary fuel so the gasoline in the fuel tank isn't used much.

so, dapat sir sairin ko na po itong laman ng auto ko kase 4 weeks na yung full tank ko tom? panu ko ba malalaman sir if spoiled gasoline na yung natatake ng engine ko?

[ghosthunter]

so, dapat sir sairin ko na po itong laman ng auto ko kase 4 weeks na yung full tank ko tom? panu ko ba malalaman sir if spoiled gasoline na yung natatake ng engine ko?

well, in my case, the engine starts to vibrate more and produce less power.

[ripple_effect]

shelf life of e10 gasoline is about 2 weeks. however i did notice that my spark plug tip has rust in it- never had it before i switched to e10. anyone have the same experience?

[redeemed]

may question pala ako: can E10 spoil when in use in a daily basis? a full tank on my car last for atleast three weeks

Yes ata paps. quoting from post ni sir Dusky Lim:

1) Bear in mind that the water-contamination is a time-dependent process, the longer E10 is exposed to air and stored, the more water it will absorb.

Try to find out when fuel is delivered to your local gas station (ask them) and re-fuel on that day.

This will insure you will get the freshest fuel that has spent the least time in storage and thus will have absorbed the least amount of water.

Don't store fuel in your tank for extended periods, as it is likely to become water-contaminated

CVT said:

I have identified a gas station (UniOil, Sucat) which claimed pure gasoline in their product, this afternoon. I will then gas up my Oct09 City and will monitor its rate of fuel consumption (based on my experience I can fairly distinguish between e10 and pure gasoline on this ride). Will advice as soon as I have the data on this.

sige nga po sir. kindly update us sa results. TIA!

[CVT]

sige nga po sir. kindly update us sa results. TIA!

This could be 2 to 3 weeks in the making bro., as I checked the fuel level of our City this morning, and it's still half-full... Typical run of this ride is about 16-20Km/day.....

Anyway, I hope that it is indeed pure gasoline, so that I can shift to it, thereby realizing a 10% improvement in the rate of fuel consumption. With this, I am willing to give up my 5% rebate with Shell or Caltex or my 3% rebate with Petron, using my credit cards.... (Plus, I think the price/liter of gasoline at UniOil is cheaper vs. any of the Big3)

9505:spam:

[CVT]

Please see my update here.....

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...t=61730&page=5

9505:spam:

[xander1925]

I was at Singapore 3 weeks ago and i cant believe that almost all taxis there are Diesel and i didnt see any of them smoking their ass off. Lots of different cars and big busses and trucks.. how come they are not pulluted? I even stayed at the back of one of the trucks and i cant smell anything... pwede kang tumambay sa traffic and wala kang maamoy... Local said that the only time they smell smoke is when something or one of the forest are burning but that's it... none coming from cars. Dont tell me thay are using e10?