Mazda3 v Honda Civic (2006) [Merged]

[slamtaz]

i guess edmunds comparo holds water only in the US market for the "compact sedan" segment which i believe should be expanded to "compact cars" so that instead of the 140hp 1.8 civic, the 197hp 2.0 civic si will be compared to the mazda3 2.3 since the former comparison is more like a sports sedan (mazda3 2.3) vs. family sedan (civic 1.8).

hopefully, the Si will come out sa Pinas as a sedan just like the previous "pocket rocket 1.6 civic vtec sir", then the contenders will be better matched in the "sports sedan category" and i believe the results will be different

[mazdamazda]

i guess edmunds comparo holds water only in the US market for the "compact sedan" segment which i believe should be expanded to "compact cars" so that instead of the 140hp 1.8 civic, the 197hp 2.0 civic si will be compared to the mazda3 2.3 since the former comparison is more like a sports sedan (mazda3 2.3) vs. family sedan (civic 1.8).

hopefully, the Si will come out sa Pinas as a sedan just like the previous "pocket rocket 1.6 civic vtec sir", then the contenders will be better matched in the "sports sedan category" and i believe the results will be different

well, you can compare the 197hp civic si to the 220hp mazdaspeed3. hihi.

[slamtaz]

well, you can compare the 197hp civic si to the 220hp mazdaspeed3. hihi.

hmmm... meron na po ba official engine specs ung mazdaspeed3?

[niky]

According to Mazda it will be a 2.3 Turbo, tuned to just 220 hp. Speculation is it will be front wheel drive only, to keep it cheap.

If it were to come in, I speculate that a non-LSD equipped model might cost 1.1 to 1.2 million, while an LSD equipped model would probably cost 1.3 to 1.4 million. That's given the price of the engine and hardware over the current 2.0.

[slamtaz]

According to Mazda it will be a 2.3 Turbo, tuned to just 220 hp. Speculation is it will be front wheel drive only, to keep it cheap.

If it were to come in, I speculate that a non-LSD equipped model might cost 1.1 to 1.2 million, while an LSD equipped model would probably cost 1.3 to 1.4 million. That's given the price of the engine and hardware over the current 2.0.

that's about the same info i've been getting so far.. the same 2.3 turbo of the mazdaspeed6 but apparently de-tuned to about 220hp and FWD only.

imo, if those figures were to become official, horsepower to engine displacement ratio of the mazdaspeed3 will then be still lower at 0.0956:1 with a turbocharged engine at that, as compared to the 0.0985:1 ratio of the 197hp 2.0 civic si and i believe that's just a naturally aspirated engine.

[Bravoexo]

Konting tulog na lang... abril na.. ha ha ha

[mazdamazda]

that's about the same info i've been getting so far.. the same 2.3 turbo of the mazdaspeed6 but apparently de-tuned to about 220hp and FWD only.

imo, if those figures were to become official, horsepower to engine displacement ratio of the mazdaspeed3 will then be still lower at 0.0956:1 with a turbocharged engine at that, as compared to the 0.0985:1 ratio of the 197hp 2.0 civic si and i believe that's just a naturally aspirated engine.

how about the torque ratings?

honda civic si... 139 lb ft * 6100 rpm

mazda3 2.3L... 150 lb ft * 6500 rpm
mazdaspeed 6... 280 lb ft * 3000 rpm

it is kinda safe to assume that the mazdaspeed 3 will have around 220 lb ft.

hihi.

[Jun aka Pekto]

how about the torque ratings?

honda civic si... 139 lb ft * 6100 rpm

mazda3 2.3L... 150 lb ft * 6500 rpm
mazdaspeed 6... 280 lb ft * 3000 rpm

it is kinda safe to assume that the mazdaspeed 3 will have around 220 lb ft.

hihi.

280 lb-ft on a FWD car. That's probably approaching the limit of driver manageability because of torque steer.

A Mazda3 turbo? Sweeeeeeeet. I'd hazard a guess that it'll be in the low 6's 0-60mph and upper 14's in the quarter mile..... Plus, it'll be an absolute joy with that turbo when charging up those high mountain roads. Well, over here anyway.

[wren]

i had a mazda protege5...i loved the way it drove, but it sorely needed a few more horses under the hood. 220 HP would have been great...i'd probably still be driving that car.

[basti08]

Mazdas is a car company that is not all about horsepower count.
they are more concerned in producing cars that handles great.

[Jun aka Pekto]

Mazdas is a car company that is not all about horsepower count.
they are more concerned in producing cars that handles great.

Hmmm. I wouldn't know about that, what with the MazdaSpeed6 coming out. 280 horses on a fairly lightweight mid-sized sedan is nothing to sneeze at. I'd much prefer a supercharged V6. But, the turbo 4 will suite me fine.

[basti08]

well maybe Mazda was traumatized with the fate of its last supercharged V6 car... the Mazda Millenia S....it didnt sell well.

[niky]

Mazda isn't about HP, but they're not really averse to it... remember the ridiculously expensive and doomed last generation RX7?

Mazda is already a niche (small) manufacturer, and their special products (the twin turbo RX7, the Mazdaspeed Miata (1.8 turbo), the Mazdaspeed Protege (2.0 turbo) and others, were even smaller in volume. True enthusiast cars, but enjoyed by very few people.

They're not going to make very many Mazdaspeed 3s and 6s, they're using them as halo cars only.

i had a mazda protege5...i loved the way it drove, but it sorely needed a few more horses under the hood. 220 HP would have been great...i'd probably still be driving that car.

I really wish they'd brought that body style here... (Australian Lynxes had the 5 door version of the Protege platform, but no 2.0, I think)... imagine if they'd released the MP5 with the 2.0 turbo from the MSP... *sigh* ...then released it here as the Lynx RS-Touring version

[Jun aka Pekto]

well maybe Mazda was traumatized with the fate of its last supercharged V6 car... the Mazda Millenia S....it didnt sell well.

Well, the Mazda Millenia wasn't that sporty-looking either. It certainly wasn't compared to the Mazda6 which is every inch a sports sedan.

Of course over here, even the Mazda6 plays second-fiddle to V6 Altimas. Well, just about all sporty mid-sized sedans play second fiddle to the ubiquitious Altima which is everywhere. Here, it's many Pinoys' sports sedan of choice.

Edit: As for a Mazda6, the current body style is just right and even the N-A V6 is no slouch so long as it's the M/T. But, personally, a supercharged V6 would've been better than a turbo 4 if only for the refined engine.

[basti08]

OT na to:


IMO it looks sportier than most competition

pero, the Mazda Millenia S was a great car. it just lacked badge apeal being compared with the likes of Lexus ES, Infiniti I30/I35, BMW 325i (circa 94), Volvo S70/850 etc...

it also offered great driving dynamics and an innovative Miller Cycle V6 Supercharged engine.

[Jun aka Pekto]

Maybe it's just me. But the Millenia still looks like a people mover despite the sporty wheels.

Bringing it back on topic, I'd definitely pick a MazdaSpeed3 over a Honda Civic Si only because I live and travel often where there are mountains.

I'm not sure if the 197hp Si will ever make it to the Philippines. If I had to choose between the top model of the Mazda3 and the top model of the Honda Civic in the Philippines, I'd definitely pick the 160hp Mazda3. I saw a beautiful blue one the other day and even here, it stands out.

[basti08]

me too likes great handling over power! picks Mazda3 hands down over the Civic!

put all the horsepower advantage towards the Civic, id still lean towards the Mazda3.

[slamtaz]

how about the torque ratings?

honda civic si... 139 lb ft * 6100 rpm

mazda3 2.3L... 150 lb ft * 6500 rpm
mazdaspeed 6... 280 lb ft * 3000 rpm

hmmm... torque ratings vis-a-vis engine displacement, let me see...

139lb/ft from a 2.0 engine = 0.0695:1 ratio for civic si
150lb/ft from a 2.3 engine = 0.0652:1 ratio for mazda3

imo, seems that whether we talk about the amount of horsepower or torque on a per "cc" displacement basis, honda simply has the technology to churn out more...

but then again, i agree with most of you that it's not just the engine output which is important but there are other factors as well, such as but not limited to looks, handling, fuel economy, comfort, technology, resale value, reliability, etc...

ika nga eh, whatever pleases the individual

but since i've already had the privilege of driving both (though i'm not a car expert but just an ordinary enthusiast), my personal impression was very good for both cars although i'm inclined to pick the civic si, simply because its a refreshing new experience...

[mazdamazda]

Mazda is already a niche (small) manufacturer, and their special products (the twin turbo RX7, the Mazdaspeed Miata (1.8 turbo), the Mazdaspeed Protege (2.0 turbo) and others, were even smaller in volume. True enthusiast cars, but enjoyed by very few people.

ah yes... the cars that can play with the big boys on the slalom.

I remember the Mazdaspeed Protege being compared with the likes of the 360, Vette & 911 Turbo

280 lb-ft on a FWD car. That's probably approaching the limit of driver manageability because of torque steer.

the Mazdaspeed 6 will have AWD.

[Jun aka Pekto]

the Mazdaspeed 6 will have AWD.

Great! That'll do a lot to get rid of torque steer. I'll be looking out for one in the dealer (same lot/dealership where I got my Sonata from) and ask to test drive one. But, we'll also be looking out for a MazdaSpeed3. The wife's driving the Sonata a lot more. I guess she's starting to like the added punch of the bigger V6. So now, we can look to replace the Ford Contour. A MazdaSpeed3 would be my top and probably, only choice (wife said no V8) unless that Kia turbo sports compact sedan concept is put into production. I like it too. But, it's A/T, so the wife will definitely pick the Kia and try to steer me towards it.

For now though, a MazdaSpeed3 is really tempting.

Just remembered the rest of that drive when I saw that blue Mazda3. We have a lot of turbocharged PT Cruisers around here which are enthusiasts' cars in their own right. Saw a couple of their drivers also give admiring glances to the Mazda3.