Toyota D4D engine woes

**gregg_g** · December 21st, 2005 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by agreyes7110

Let us leave "witchhunting" to the professionals in the senate and congress!!.

You seem to favor an investigation courtesy of our public officials but yet a contradiction seem to exist in your next post!

Originally Posted by agreyes7110

Not only that, this may snowball into a "senate investigation in aid of publicity grandstanding" by our cretin of senators and result ultimately to a closure of production and loss of valuable employment to our brother laborers.

So which is which?

**Alpha_One** · December 21st, 2005 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by mazdamazda

to add to that... Ford will invest an additional P1.1B to manufacture flexi-fuel engines here in the Phillipines. yup... you heard that right... manufacture engines (that can accomodate both gasoline and ethanol).

eh ang Toyota... ang tagal na dito hindi man laman tayo gawing manufacturing hub ng isa sa kanilang vehicles... puro nasa Thailand!

OT: To be fair to Toyota let's look at it the way they see it. It's not very ideal to make a manufacturing hub in the middle of the ocean; you need to cross the waters to get your products anywhere. On the other hand, Thailand is on the mainland *and* it is near the SE Asia archipelagos. It makes perfect logistical sense to make my cars in Thailand instead.

To be quite frank, the Philippines' main advantages are a) having really close ties with the US and b) having a relatively free economy during the Cold War period. We had the head start, unfortunately came Martial Law and whatever came after that (right now, that is).

I've more to say, but I don't want to give an economics lecture and I don't want to start a debate on trade liberalization and nationalism. Besides I'm off topic.

**number001** · December 21st, 2005 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Monseratto

What do you call that big building complex they have in Sta. Rosa?!? I guess you didn't visit the World of Toyota exhibit sometime ago in World Trade Center.

Personally, I dont go to Santa Rosa and certainly I dont know what's inside that "big building complex" of Toyota. What I do know comes from the business section of the newspapers and the sales agents at various dealerships whom I talk to.

Some facts I gathered which lead me to the conclusion regarding Toyota's faltering investment behavior in the Philippines:

*I have read about Toyota closing down their plant in Bicutan after the last Revo rolled out of the production line.

*It is a well known fact that all the IMVs are all made in Thailand (well you can include the CKD kits of the Innovas which are assembled here). The Fortuners and Hi-Lux are both confirmed CBU imports from Thailand.

*I saw a Vios in the showroom with a shipping sticker indicating its origin being Thailand. I asked the sales agents, "so these are also CBUs from Thailand?" Their reply: "Yes, essentially it comes to the Toyota plant complete with only minor assembly/installation."

*The Hi-Ace is another confirmed import CBU from Japan. A sales agent also told me that their Camry are from Japan as well. Even if its still unverified, the Prado is for sure another CBU import also.

Which leaves us with the Altis as the sole product that Toyota is producing or simply assembling?? here in the Philippines. In contrast to other manufacturers esp. Ford/Mazda, Honda and Nissan, etc. Toyota looks like an underachiever and a very risk averse one at that.

Toyota does have parts manufacturing capabilities here, which among others is the manual transmission for the IMVs but that is only because Toyota does not want to hedge all their bets in one location (Thailand). The Philippines is merely regaled with a back-up role along with India in case of parts shortages. Toyota's manufacturing darling in Asia (outside Japan) is in Thailand, to which Toyota is further expanding into another plant in the south to accomodate increasing demand for the Hi-Lux. Well that's certainly something I havent heard Toyota announce in a long time here in the Philippines.

**number001** · December 21st, 2005 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Alpha_One

OT: To be fair to Toyota let's look at it the way they see it. It's not very ideal to make a manufacturing hub in the middle of the ocean; you need to cross the waters to get your products anywhere. On the other hand, Thailand is on the mainland *and* it is near the SE Asia archipelagos. It makes perfect logistical sense to make my cars in Thailand instead.

To be quite frank, the Philippines' main advantages are a) having really close ties with the US and b) having a relatively free economy during the Cold War period. We had the head start, unfortunately came Martial Law and whatever came after that (right now, that is).

I've more to say, but I don't want to give an economics lecture and I don't want to start a debate on trade liberalization and nationalism. Besides I'm off topic.

The labor cost is much lower in Thailand and the labor force are not as volatile as here in the Philippines.

**RedHorse** · December 21st, 2005 09:57 PM

though am not a toyota fan, I have to admire toyota's "blue print" on car manufacturing... they really put focus on how to source the parts, when the supplier can deliver, and if ever, that supplier can meet thier demands... though am not sure whether thailand has steel plant... the philippines has nothing operational that can meet car manufacturers' steel demand.

**niky** · December 21st, 2005 10:13 PM

Toyota has a great production line, that's true. I'm studying their methods for use in paperwork at my organization.

*number001: Labor costs and laborer skill are the exact reasons Ford and Nissan are investing in the Philippines. Both the X-Trail (Philippine assembled, even for the Japanese market, where it sells like hotcakes) and the Lynx were awarded JDPowers initial quality awards. IQAs are indicative of attention to manufcaturing and assembly, though they say nothing of the quality of the parts themselves, they indicate that the workmanship is generally good.

Granted, Filipino workmanship isn't always that good, and the KMU is an eternal boogeyman for foreign corporations, but some of them do us proud.

I have never been very impressed by Thai-made vehicles, but to be fair, I am even less impressed by the build quality of Nissan units out of Taiwan.

I hope Toyota does initiate a recall. That'll make a lot of them this year... too many for a company that's built a reputation for quality. But then again, their aggressive expansion means these sort of things will happen. It's inevitable. What's surprising to me is that there is no similar brouhaha over BMW's new diesels, which have been here longer, and should be more vulnerable, given their higher specific output and operating pressures. Or maybe no one here owns a 530d or X5 3.0d?

**shockz** · December 22nd, 2005 02:06 AM

I recvd a response (by email) from Toyota about my inquiry on the D4D problem. Here is the email: (I will reply to this and will pursue a dialogue and will post it later)

This maybe our chance to get through to Toyota without using the media. Let me know you thoughts on this so I could email back to them.

Although Ms. Alberto refered to the Fortuner early on her email, I can assure you that I asked about all D4D engines including Inovas and Fortuners.

Please read carefully....

Thank you for posting your message on our Website. We appreciate receiving your comment regarding the Toyota Fortuner.

Please be assured Toyota is fully committed to customer satisfaction and would like to invite all concerned customers to any of our authorized dealers, if they have not done so. Our dealers are fully equipped to address the servicing needs of the customers.

For clarification, recalls are inspection and/or repair procedures done for specific models. These may be initiated even beyond the vehicle's warranty period. At this time, there are no plans of recall, as you suggested for D4D engines.

We further assure you that all approved claims under warranty are covered by the warranty as explained in the warranty booklet. We hope we have clarified your concerns. Should you have further concerns, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Assistance Group at 858-8200 or any of our authorized dealers.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Joy Alberto
Manager
Customer Service Section
Vehicle Sales Department

**Ram 001** · December 22nd, 2005 05:41 AM

For me, at this moment I would not be concerned about my vehicle's re-sale value. The important thing I should worry about is that will my new vehicle be 100% reliable?
As others had said, we placed our hard earned money to buy a new vehicle to be worry free of problems. So any problems that comes up in this thread I think we should be concerned about it. And if this problem keeps on happening to others then thats the time we need to worry and support others with regards to their problems coz we'll never know, maybe the next day it would be our turn to complain...

**oldblue** · December 22nd, 2005 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by bongliza

It's ok if the unit is still under warranty. Papano na pag out of warranty? Somebody posted here that it would probably be felt within 100K++ km reading yung problem. This is already out of warranty and I'm sure most owners are not ready to pay P125K to replace the pump unit. Considering it's a known fact that it's a design flaw.

then that is the solution to the D4D problems, lobby for longer warranty say 200,000Km or 5 years. use the media to support your cause. siguro naman in 5 years time, may solution na yan. kung hindi napaka-incompetent naman nyan Toyota not to solve a problem in 5 years time.

mahirap talaga kalagayan nyo mga D4D owners pero siguro a lesson might be learned here. never buy a project car hehehe. When I was watching the Toyota IMV Project Video Doc sa Discovery Channel, sabi ko nun, why would I buy a vehicle that is considered just a project. From that word itself, mapapaisip ka na talaga. Toyota should have called it Toyota IMV Product or something ....

it's a project, a new technology so expect na talagang maging guinea pig kayo one way or another. and you may have also become unwilling fund raisers for their project. somebody mentioned here na hindi pa pumapasa ang Fortuner sa quality control ng USA & Europe, dun pa lang dapat talaga maging maingat na sa pagbili. I dont know kung even in Japan eh hindi pa ito ginagamit.

so I guess that's the best solution. work with Toyota on this. there's no sense attacking Toyota coz you're on the same boat. it's like the Phils. hehe, attack the President and we all go down with the boat.

there is nothing wrong with protecting your interests or the re-sale value of your car. hard-earned money pinambili dun, nagkataon nga lang na hilaw pa yun technology ng IMV but ganun naman talaga d'ba for every new technology?

**larshell** · December 22nd, 2005 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by shockz

I recvd a response (by email) from Toyota about my inquiry on the D4D problem. Here is the email: (I will reply to this and will pursue a dialogue and will post it later)

This maybe our chance to get through to Toyota without using the media. Let me know you thoughts on this so I could email back to them.

Although Ms. Alberto refered to the Fortuner early on her email, I can assure you that I asked about all D4D engines including Inovas and Fortuners.

Please read carefully....

Thank you for posting your message on our Website. We appreciate receiving your comment regarding the Toyota Fortuner.

Please be assured Toyota is fully committed to customer satisfaction and would like to invite all concerned customers to any of our authorized dealers, if they have not done so. Our dealers are fully equipped to address the servicing needs of the customers.

For clarification, recalls are inspection and/or repair procedures done for specific models. These may be initiated even beyond the vehicle's warranty period. At this time, there are no plans of recall, as you suggested for D4D engines.

We further assure you that all approved claims under warranty are covered by the warranty as explained in the warranty booklet. We hope we have clarified your concerns. Should you have further concerns, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Assistance Group at 858-8200 or any of our authorized dealers.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Joy Alberto
Manager
Customer Service Section
Vehicle Sales Department

For me this is one way of ignoring the problem of D4d syempre they have to reply para naman di mo masabing dika nila pinansin.What i want to hear from them is at least extending the warranty to 200,000km or 5Yrs or they want to talk to you personaly and make some proposal on how to solve the problem or sana man lang magpakita sila ng solution sa problema.

Re: Resale value concern, Even if we dont go to media resale value will still suffer just like what happen to Trooper wd 4jx1 engine.Kaya siguro malakas ang loob ng Toyota. AFAIK D4d and 4jx1 hve the same CRDi maker Denso. Denso partly owned by Toyota.This is my reason why i want togo to media and maybe if Toyota will response to this coz of the media resale Value will not be affected. If we keep quiet and never talk about it others will eventualy know this problem thats the time resale value will suffer and there is nothing we do about it like the 4jx1.

*Innovaboy, I dont hve scaner i will try to take some pictures and post it.