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  1. Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    61
    #331
    Quote Originally Posted by 3kings
    toyota just finished replacing mine this afternoon. the bill is around 113k++ paid nothing coz its under warranty 2mos old pa lang )-:

    so far quick starting na sya at hindi agad namamatay pagka start

    PERO AT IDLING hindi pa rin natanggal yung parang biglang magiging erratic yung hum ng engine. normal ba ito? any comments guys?

    hindi ko pa naibabatak kung hirap sa hatak. will eport on it as soon as i have the time for a long drive.
    btw, i asked them what was wrong with my supply pump and the SA just smiled. so i didnt bother to ask for details i just referred to the parts changed. what's this a cover up?

  2. Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    608
    #332
    Quote Originally Posted by agreyes7110
    Actually the more I read this thread the more I suspect that this is just black propaganda by the competitors, since they still don't have a suitable AUV to compete against the IMV units. The objective is to create doubts in the mind of consumers hoping that they would stay away from buying the IMV Toyotas and settle for their aging and technologically obsolete AUV's.
    I would not have wanted to say anything in this thread because I am not an Innova Owner, nor can give technical recommendations, but with what youíve said, then there is no stopping me from saying this. Who says itís hearsay, if you try going over the different posts in this thread (AGAIN), these are the Innova owners who came out and shared their problems. And for the non-Innova tsikoteers, all they did was to contribute/share their honest to goodness comments and suggestions. And I tried reading between the lines of the different posts of these tsikoteers (Innova & Non-Innova owners), and I canít see any inch of black propaganda, except honest to goodness experiences and suggestions. But on your end, with the posts that you have recently made, I am seeing some kind of color, in fact, I am made to believe that you are covering something, somebodyÖ..Why not just make a suggestion how we can help our brother tsikoteers, who are experiencing problems with their dear investments? That would be one of the better Christmas gifts to them. But the best will be to solve the problem that they are facing right now
    Last edited by gregg_g; December 19th, 2005 at 11:09 PM.

  3. Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,251
    #333
    Quote Originally Posted by agreyes7110
    Again, I completely agree with you, however most of what you said are just speculation or second hand knowledge which anyone can fabricate and through time can be believable to anyone. .
    Larshell, Lord, and 3king, to name a few, experiences are FIRST hand, not hearsay. My choking experience is also first hand, although mine went away with filter cleaning, thus, I havent had the chance to have my pump replaced. But toyota knows about it already.

    A lemon car doesn't mean a lemon brand or type. A lemon car would mean you just got a unit that didn't meet the specs of that car. But if your unit, and several others have the same problem (in the case of the innova, ALL the problems encountered ALL have the same pump problem), that's not a lemon..THAT'S FACTORY DESIGN DEFECT.

  4. Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    55
    #334
    I completely agree with you, however the statement "But if your unit and several others have the same problem" is a very vague generalization. The problem with the D4D as your statement suggest can be caused by numerous things and cannot be pinpointed as yet to a single system failure.
    What I am merely suggesting is that, please for the sake of the numerous D4D owners out there let us not sensationalize this in the media, just because a few which is not even 1% of the total, is experiencing problems with their D4D engines.

    As they say,"the truth will set us free", if there is really a design flaw in the D4D engines sooner or later there will be 10,145 D4D irate owners swamping Toyota dealerships all over the country. However, as of now I think it is very pre-mature and downright unfair to the D4D owners to turn this into a media event! And also I am not an employee nor connected with Toyota, I am just one Innova owner who is trying to prevent a group of hotheads in trying to destroy the reputation of a good company and in the process lower the resale value of my hard earned Innova, of which I have logged 12,000 km. and still very satisfied with its performance and reliability just like the thousands of other D4D owners.

  5. Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    499
    #335
    Quote Originally Posted by agreyes7110
    I completely agree with you, however the statement "But if your unit and several others have the same problem" is a very vague generalization. The problem with the D4D as your statement suggest can be caused by numerous things and cannot be pinpointed as yet to a single system failure.
    What I am merely suggesting is that, please for the sake of the numerous D4D owners out there let us not sensationalize this in the media, just because a few which is not even 1% of the total, is experiencing problems with their D4D engines.

    As they say,"the truth will set us free", if there is really a design flaw in the D4D engines sooner or later there will be 10,145 D4D irate owners swamping Toyota dealerships all over the country. However, as of now I think it is very pre-mature and downright unfair to the D4D owners to turn this into a media event! And also I am not an employee nor connected with Toyota, I am just one Innova owner who is trying to prevent a group of hotheads in trying to destroy the reputation of a good company and in the process lower the resale value of my hard earned Innova, of which I have logged 12,000 km. and still very satisfied with its performance and reliability just like the thousands of other D4D owners.
    sir, as for the "hearsay" thing, i've seen a recently released fortuner with a supply pump problem being serviced at toyota makati(i posted a pic here in this thread). kahit tanungin natin ang toyota kung ilan na ang unit na may ganitong problema, they will just say that it's just an isolated case. i truly believe toyota hasn't perfected yet the d4d engine so they better sell vvti engines for the meantime.

  6. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    6,089
    #336
    Toyota has been replacing the fuel pumps on the choking Innovas, so it can presumed that that is the part likely cause of the problem. At a costly sum of Php 113K+ per replacement, Toyota wouldn't be replacing such part if they were not sure of.

    - - -

    The problem with this debacle is that Toyota is not being forthright in dealing with the problem. Instead of being accomodating, at least to those with troubled units, Toyota decides to keep its distance thru stonewalling and profuse denial. Understandably, they are protecting their brand and reputation but it should not be through a unscrupulous cover-up. Toyota can sweep all of these brohuha under its mattresses but one day it will implode into a bigger quagmire than it is now.

    If the disgruntled owners of D4-D engine would like to go to the media, it is their very right to especially since Toyota has left them with no room to manuever. Hopefully, a successful media exposure will teach or force Toyota to be more forthcoming in rectifying the problem as well as help them rethink their policies regarding customer satisfaction.
    Last edited by number001; December 20th, 2005 at 01:10 AM.

  7. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    8,837
    #337
    ok since media din pala ang unanimous decision nyo kahit na may risks, I think the best thing to do is to shut the media off para pansinin kayo. from what I've observed with the media, pag lumapit kayo dyan kahit na grupo pa at lantaran nyo i-air out grievances nyo, lalo sila ma-turn off. ang gusto nila smoke muna, wag fire kagad.

    shut them off. act like you're hiding something yun tipong may usap-usapan kayo ng Toyota to fix the problem. use the word media-blackout muna or bawal ang media. tignan nyo 6:00am pa lang the next day nasa meeting place nyo na yan, stalking your grievance group ... that's the best and most effective way to solicit support to your group.

  8. Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    608
    #338
    Quote Originally Posted by agreyes7110
    please for the sake of the numerous D4D owners out there let us not sensationalize this in the media, just because a few which is not even 1% of the total, is experiencing problems with their D4D engines.
    If you talk of the 1% here, don't refer it against to all innova owners out there, but refer to innova owners here in this forum (Tsikot). Because with what you did, there is an anomaly/variance in the ratio/statistics. You have to be consistent. Itís either it will be innova owners in this thread having the pump problem over (/) the total number of innova owners in this thread (which is already an ideal sampling) or do a survey to all innova owners all over the Philippines having problems over (/) the Total number of innova owners in the Philippines

  9. Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,251
    #339
    the problem is that toyota doesn't admit their pumps may contain a defect that one day will come out, be it 2,000km, 20,000km, or 120,000km. The problem is that by not admitting to it, only those units that encounter the problem WITHIN the 3 year warranty period will be covered. IMO, if the pump has an inherent defect, hindi dapat yan covered by the 3 year warranty. Toyota should extend their "warranty".

    AGREYES, you have the right to protect your investment, but your statistics are wrong. You can use toyota total sales if all those innovas sold also are members here, so your statistics will be a better representation. But not all are members of tsikot. The problem IS a great concern, because it is not an isolated case. Isolated means Lord's is a fuel pump problem, Larshell's a radiator problem, mine a suspension problem, etc. BUT NO, all those enountering a problem with the innova are ALL choking problem, of which toyota, after trying the ECU fix, eventually are changing the pumps. Why the pump? They refuse to let us know what is it in the pump that is the defect. GREAT MARKETING, IMO, because by not saying anything, in effect, "you have the right to remain silent, anything you say will be used against you". Toyota issuing a silent recall through that memo, admitting fault, is not enough. Them being TOYOTA, means to protect their name brand, is to admit there is a problem and replacing the defective part, regardless of their declared warranty. This warranty, this defect, and toyota's decision to wait only for those who are experiencing the problem (being reactive instead of proactive) are the ones that will drive toyota lovers batty, paranoid, and frustrated.

  10. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    325
    #340
    Looking at our situation from a wider perspective, Toyota's actions are very measured.

    First they issue an internal memo, but don't issue an official statement nor mail a notice to potentialy affected D4D owners (D4D engine no. with matching buyers name & address are available at the dealers).

    Second they repair your dead D4D and replace the entire CRDI system, but Toyota gives you a job order/list of parts replaced but prints this in a piece of bond paper (as per larshell & lord) without using a Toyota letterhead. Some Toyota dealers don't even put in the amount of the parts replaced.

    Read through these actions, although Toyota has been helpful in attending to the problematic D4D units, their actions mean only one thing - PUBLIC DENIABILITY.

    When we go to the media and legitimately bash Toyota for selling us a faulty product, they and the media will ask for proof and we can only show them a piece of bond paper with no Toyota letterhead listing the parts that were replaced . . . and say any Tom, Dick & Harry can print that . . . . all of these scenarios have been pre-calculated by Toyota.

    WHY ? ----> Because this will severely stab Toyota's global IMV program.

    If Toyota does a public RECALL in the Philippines, then Malaysians, Indonesians, and Thais will know about this and also demand that their local Toyota Office do the same . . . . . and this thing will spread globally where the IMV program is implemented with D4D engines. Toyota will do everything to shut us up.

    If we use media as our battlefield, we should be ready. I'm sure Toyota has a huge PR/Corporate Affairs dept. with a fat budget to trash all our allegations.
    Last edited by jaeger; December 20th, 2005 at 08:54 AM.

Toyota D4D engine woes