distance between wheel and wheel well

[lightninmcqueen]

My two-cents worth. I would guess the original intent of decreasing the wheel-wheel well distance is to improve the look - the "stance" - of the vehicle. In this case, simply lowering the car with aftermarket springs will achieve this purpose. Going to bigger rims with lower profile tires is another matter altogether. I read once that a rule-of thumb for a good "stance" or look to a vehicle's profile is to make sure that the tire's sidewall is thicker than the visible space in the wheel well. That's why cars with low-profile tires look "lifted" when they maintain their stock springs/ suspension height.

actually yun lng po gusto mngyari, bawasan yung distance between wheel and wheelwell, pangit kc tignan. gusto ko sna mdyo subsub ng ng konti yung front ng car.
well thank you for the info. springs lng pla yung kailangan palitan

[lightninmcqueen]

You know you have anti-roll bars, struts, etc...so your car won't roll as much. That's a very different scenario. I would assume the author's car is bone stock.

In general, having a higher car will produce more body roll provided everything else remains the same. Then again how much difference does one usually have when lowering/increasing ground clearance? Not much, dahil di naman "lifted" yung car.

Sometimes, body roll is good too. Some cars were designed to roll.

But going back to the author of this thread, the cost will depend on what items you purchase and how much drop you want. Some manufacturers have adjustable shocks, some have coilovers, some have extra items involved like spacers, etc. So read around and find out what you really want, then give it a shot.

Most often pinuputol lang yung springs. This isn't the best, in fact it is the worst idea. Cutting springs will change its characteristic since the length has been reduced but the other properties remain the same (coil thickness, material, etc).

if i cut the springs, hihina b sya, i meant for example sa bako2 or sa humps mgiging mtagtag b yung effect s car

[GreenThumb]

if i cut the springs, hihina b sya, i meant for example sa bako2 or sa humps mgiging mtagtag b yung effect s car

yes, cutting the springs would increase the spring rate(harder/matagtag).. and that would deffinately shorten the life of your struts..

[GreenThumb]

There are the springs that are considered to be OE replacements... If you didn't know, you can lower a car by swapping springs and not need any of those other things done... I'd go with springs first, if anythine else needed, then get to that, but it's more likely not to happen...

partially true, depending on what type of suspension you have in your car.

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

[niky]

Cut springs give you less suspension travel before you hit the bump stops. Not a big problem if the springs are stiff in the first place, as on a Civic SiR or a Lynx RS, but a big problem on a softly-tuned Corolla.

Actually sports springs are a good idea if you're going to get big wheels anyway, as long as they don't lower the car too much, as they can help keep a larger wheel from rubbing. Of course, if you're going this route, you might need to go ahead and upgrade the shocks, too, as suggested above. I've popped one or two gas struts myself with lowering springs. They were aftermarket, but apparently, not heavy duty enough.

RE: body roll when lifting... depends on how much the big mags and tires will lift your car. If you want a good thickness of tire on a 17" mag for a Corolla, you're looking at 45-series tires, which would give you less than 1" ground clearance increase from a 185-60-14 tire (just guessing on stock sizes here).

That's not much in terms of a raised COG, and the grippier tires will more than make up for it.

[blink21me]

I'm not talking about your car.Anyway,Why don't you try to increase it by 5 inches and let see if you're not goin to notice a body roll.

I didn't tell you to take my car as a subject and base all cars to it, if not one of you got it, just the ground clearance itself doesn't do anything to affect body roll... you increase the height of the car which increases ground clearance, but does the ground clearance lead to body roll? NO... it's de/increasing the height (if the car is sitting on adjustable coilovers) that causes the suspension to act differently... Lowering it stiffens the springs, and softens when you higher it... but this, 90% of the time only applies to linear springs (springs that mostly come with coilovers as part of the system), and even with linear springs, whether you increase or decrease the height don't make that much of a difference... why? because when you corner hard or when the car is in it's cornering limits the springs are, if not close to, are in it's maximum rate per lbs capability regardless of whatever the height of the car is...

Now in the original poster's case, I doubt he'll be interested with anything about body roll, but I suggest getting progressive type springs as it is what's ideal for a daily driver, it's more shock friendly than linear springs, and get something close to stock spring rates...

[blink21me]

cutting the springs is the STUPIDEST idea IMHO... I don't even consider it as one of the options/route one could go... RICERS do that! please don't be one... Don't ruin your suspension by doing that stupid thing, even some cut springs get cracked over time... what a dumb idea... (apologize to those who have done this)...

yes, cutting the springs would increase the spring rate(harder/matagtag).. and that would deffinately shorten the life of your struts..

I think it actually decreases the spring rate of the springs? A spring is designed and is rated to spec, what happens if you take a part of it away? You lose it's integrity and by partially taking off the materials you weaken it, which leads to a softer spring... Also, doing this does make the shock go out pretty quick ~ shocks and springs are designed to work as one, what happens is if you cut the springs, the shocks get too much load, which the springs are supposed to hold, or to help the shocks to catch... A significantly lower spring rate becomes too selfish that it passes it's job onto the shocks, which then causes them to eventually give out...

[blink21me]

partially true, depending on what type of suspension you have in your car.

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

when "OE replacement" is mentioned, it refers to something that can be safely used along with the rest of the OE system... it doesn't depend on what type of suspension you have in your car ~ you have OEM suspension, otherwise it won't be necesarry to go with such "OE" replacements...

[mbeige]

I could adjust the height of my car giving it more ground clearance yet wouldn't notice increase in body roll...

I didn't tell you to take my car as a subject and base all cars to it

You have conflicting statements there. You initiated talk about your car, then you go on telling us not to use your car as a subject.

when you corner hard or when the car is in it's cornering limits the springs are, if not close to, are in it's maximum rate per lbs capability regardless of whatever the height of the car is...

Not everybody corners hard and most of the time, people do not corner hard.

you increase the height of the car which increases ground clearance, but does the ground clearance lead to body roll? NO... it's de/increasing the height (if the car is sitting on adjustable coilovers) that causes the suspension to act differently...

Ground clearance per se does not lead to body roll, but by increasing ground clearance by lifting the car, then that leads to body roll. Even the slightest amount, to be technical, yes it does lead to increased body roll depending on the car's chassis and design. Normal compact cars will have similar designs so they will react normally, unlike tuned sports cars. But you already know that.

actually yun lng po gusto mngyari, bawasan yung distance between wheel and wheelwell, pangit kc tignan. gusto ko sna mdyo subsub ng ng konti yung front ng car.
well thank you for the info. springs lng pla yung kailangan palitan

It looks like you'll just need a good set of lowering springs, maybe larger size rims of your choice ng design pang porma, and a good set of shocks para match yung lowering spring rate sa shocks. That way hindi premature yung wear ng either one.

Read the link about carbible, that's good info right there.

[lightninmcqueen]

oh i see, i have 195/50/15 wheels, ok n b yun? dpat pla when i buy lowering springs ksma rin shocks pra mgcompliment cla. muntik k ng ipacut yung springs k knina.

[ronald_m]

[QUOTE=blink21me;649555]I didn't tell you to take my car as a subject and base all cars to it, if not one of you got it, just the ground clearance itself doesn't do anything to affect body roll... you increase the height of the car which increases ground clearance, but does the ground clearance lead to body roll? NO... it's de/increasing the height (if the car is sitting on adjustable coilovers) that causes the suspension to act differently... Lowering it stiffens the springs, and softens when you higher it... but this, 90% of the time only applies to linear springs (springs that mostly come with coilovers as part of the system), and even with linear springs, whether you increase or decrease the height don't make that much of a difference... why? because when you corner hard or when the car is in it's cornering limits the springs are, if not close to, are in it's maximum rate per lbs capability regardless of whatever the height of the car is...

QUOTE]

YOu're funny kiddo.

[GreenThumb]

when "OE replacement" is mentioned, it refers to something that can be safely used along with the rest of the OE system... it doesn't depend on what type of suspension you have in your car ~ you have OEM suspension, otherwise it won't be necesarry to go with such "OE" replacements...

as i've said.. "partially true", different cars have different suspension types. as you mentioned that "you can lower a car by swapping springs and not need any of those other things done..(OE springs)" does NOT hold true for ALL cars and thus, you may need some other OE suspension parts to go along with the OE springs..

[blink21me]

You have conflicting statements there. You initiated talk about your car, then you go on telling us not to use your car as a subject.

... wow... when I said "I could increase the height of my car (which at the same time will create more ground clearance), it would not affect body roll", I ***implied*** that ground clearance have very less to do with body roll... I chose to say that instead of saying, "I can increase the height of any car with height adj coilovers and I know for a fact it won't affect body roll if I do it right..." Oh my, are you guys so used to being spoon fed on the net when it comes to this kind of stuff??? I'm sorry I'm not some type who directly makes straight statements all the time... Sometimes, what you read is saying more than what the text is telling you... Damn, how many of you guys have gone through critical reading and writting???

Not everybody corners hard and most of the time, people do not corner hard.

K, I am obviously, definitely aware of that, otherwise I wouldn't make a second paragraph on my previous post concerning what might be the original poster's case... This time I was generally talking a little about how the suspension system works...

[blink21me]

YOu're funny kiddo.

Yeah yeah, I've seen posts like this by you know who??? ~kids who [SIZE="4"]just talks [/SIZE] about something they don't completely know about, those who stumble and don't know what to say when someone comes after to question their claims or ask for evidence, proofs and such... Maybe you should just not say anything if you're not sure you can back it up with facts or even at least fictions... Better than putting your own words back to your mouth, eh???

[blink21me]

as i've said.. "partially true", different cars have different suspension types. as you mentioned that "you can lower a car by swapping springs and not need any of those other things done..(OE springs)" does NOT hold true for ALL cars and thus, you may need some other OE suspension parts to go along with the OE springs..

OMG, kapag sinabing "OE replacement", ibig sabihin eh STOCK replacement, stock replacement = mga bagay na gawa ng ibang manufacturer para i-replace ang isang OEM part... Halimbawa, kapag pumunta ka sa isang local shop tapos sinabi mong kelangan mo ng OE replacement for your windshield, bibigyan ka nila ng windshield na sakto ang sukat (specs) sa original windshield mo, pero yung windshield na yon eh hndi gawa ng original manufacturer ng car mo, anong tawag mo ngayon sa windwhield na yon? ~ OE windshield, at gagamitin nila lahat ng original parts mo para i-mount yung windshield, or kung may necessary parts na kelangan na ng replacement to mount the winidshield, they'll use either OEM or OE items...

As for springs, kapag bumili ka ng OE replacement na springs, ibig sabihin papalitan mo lang yung springs at wala ka ng ibang dapat palitan. Kung meron ka pang ibang part ng suspension na dapat palitan para lang mai-install yung springs, then yung springs na binili mo eh hndi OE replacement... The phrase "partially trrue" DOES NOT apply to this case...

[niky]

*Lightning McQueen: 195-50-15s will be fine. They're sporty enough with lowering springs.

You should be able to get a set of lowering springs for your vehicle for around 15-20k. Maybe less if they're secondhand. The bonus with secondhand ones is they'll be worn-in, and won't be as stiff as new ones. Just make sure they're not worn-out...

Like I've said, a local Toyota or Corolla club can help you more easily than us, but there are a number of shops in Banaue that can do the job.

RE: cut springs... there are some shops that can do this safely, and my cousin drove around on those for a while in his Altis, but the ride is punishing, and you don't get as much suspension travel out of cut-springs as you do with lowering springs.

RE: lowering springs: If we're talking about modern sedans here, riding on shock struts and coil springs, you can put lowering springs in anything without replacing any other stock components. All cars have a bit of "slack" in their suspension geometry, and you can use lowering springs with a lowering rate of 1-2" safely... on anything.

Of course, this does not bode well for the life of your shocks on aftermarket springs, but there are some companies that produce lowering springs that are only slightly stiffer than stock (stiffness roughly equivalent to what the stock's would be if they were compressed to the same height)... especially for luxo-tuner favorites like the BMW.

Of course, you can't get "safe" lowering springs for all vehicles, like GreenThumb says, but as long as you drive conservatively, most aftermarket lowering springs won't destroy your shocks much faster than stock springs would.

RE: Body Roll. (didn't really pay attention a while ago) - if you change the length of your springs in any way, this will change the roll characteristics of the car. Altering swaybars or strutbars will also change the car's tendency to roll. Changing the struts will alter roll characteristics.

But, changing the vehicle's height with different sized tires will not change the car's roll characteristics at all. It will merely move the car's Center-Of-Gravity higher. You definitely get that "up-on-tiptoes" feeling in a car with a higher COG it if you push the car to the limit, but you won't get more body roll, just a lower breakaway limit.

You can raise a car with bump-stop inserts without changing its roll-characteristics significantly, as the shocks are linear, so their function does not change, and the springs remain the same length. But I really hate that unsure feeling at the limits of suspension travel that soft inserts give you.

Of course, there are limits to everything. If you raise or lower a vehicle to the limits of suspension travel, everything goes out the window. You either end up with a car that drives like a bobbing-head doll, or a skateboard... neither of which is good news in regards to handling.

RE: blink21me: your blood pressure, man... take it easy!!! have a beer :cheers:

[GreenThumb]

OMG, kapag sinabing "OE replacement", ibig sabihin eh STOCK replacement, stock replacement = mga bagay na gawa ng ibang manufacturer para i-replace ang isang OEM part... Halimbawa, kapag pumunta ka sa isang local shop tapos sinabi mong kelangan mo ng OE replacement for your windshield, bibigyan ka nila ng windshield na sakto ang sukat (specs) sa original windshield mo, pero yung windshield na yon eh hndi gawa ng original manufacturer ng car mo, anong tawag mo ngayon sa windwhield na yon? ~ OE windshield, at gagamitin nila lahat ng original parts mo para i-mount yung windshield, or kung may necessary parts na kelangan na ng replacement to mount the winidshield, they'll use either OEM or OE items...

As for springs, kapag bumili ka ng OE replacement na springs, ibig sabihin papalitan mo lang yung springs at wala ka ng ibang dapat palitan. Kung meron ka pang ibang part ng suspension na dapat palitan para lang mai-install yung springs, then yung springs na binili mo eh hndi OE replacement... The phrase "partially trrue" DOES NOT apply to this case...

so, are you saying that OE/OEM JDM parts, OE/OEM EDM parts and OE/OEM USDM parts are all the same..? ....NOT

big difference on the windshield part and on the suspension part.. and i won't even go there.. all i'm tryin to point out here is that you can not just change the springs of your suspension and call it a day as you were suggesting to the original poster.. changing just the springs (different OE or after market)would change the geometry of the suspension and may or may not need a 4wheel allignment/caster/camber/tow.. i'm done..:arms:

lightninmcqueen; before you do anything, just be sure that you have done your homework.. do it once, and do it right.. it will save you a lot of time and $s..

niky; well said..

[mbeige]

Oh my, are you guys so used to being spoon fed on the net when it comes to this kind of stuff??? I'm sorry I'm not some type who directly makes straight statements all the time...

It can be hard trying to comprehend one who doesn't speak directly. I did not want to assume anything. I guess you'll have to be more straightforward sometimes, not everybody is as smart as you.

Damn, how many of you guys have gone through critical reading and writting???

Let's pretend you did not say that.

[ssaloon]

kids, behave!

[chain]

more popcorn anybody? :popcorn: