The Perpetual NBA Thread

[mazdamazda]

It looks like a done deal if Shaq passes the physical.

[ssaloon]

i dont get the suns. sure they might not get anything for marion if they dont trade him before the deadline, then he doesn't resign with them. but trading him for an aging shaq with 2 years and 40M left on his contract??? wtf is that??

[tsupermario]

after effects of the pau gasol trade

[kimpOy]

meron diesel pa si shaq... last dance... imho this is what he needs no need to be the hero no need to be carrying the team...he's good for backing up amare... the suns are so weak frontcourt..suns can now bang bodies with any west team...

they can still run.. nash, barbosa, hill, diaw, amare
they can play big, nash, bell, hill, amare, shaq
they can play "spread 3" nash, barbosa, bell, hill amare

[theveed]

Suns will regret trading for O'Neal
td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; } By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
February 6, 2008
As long as the Phoenix Suns linger as that championship-free franchise in the desert, they will continue to regret making a trade for a broken-down Shaquille O'Neal. Between going for it, and sheer desperation, there is the finest line. What happened to believing in Mike D'Antoni's system? What happened to believing speed and finesse could deliver a championship?
In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly believed his way could win a title.

If he's willing to trade Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of this system has surrendered.
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"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
Still, there was one Eastern Conference GM who said, "I give Phoenix credit for rolling the dice and trying to make this happen."
This is beyond a roll of the dice. Shaq has to pass a physical in Phoenix on Wednesday, a source told Yahoo! Sports, and you wonder if the Suns elders might come to their senses and make sure that O'Neal "fails" the examination.
For reasons that are clear, Shaq doesn't fit offensively with the Suns. He can't run anymore. He can't shoot. He still was groaning about his touches in Miami, and you think he's going to accept life as the fourth, maybe fifth, option at times? There's little evidence to suggest Shaq simply will embrace the role of defensive stopper that the Suns so desperately want of him.
Do you think Shaq will be content with rebounding and throwing outlets to start fast breaks, never to be rewarded on the offensive end? Alonzo Mourning did it late in his Miami career, but Shaq never has come to terms with his basketball mortality. He still thinks he's the Diesel, and God bless him for it. It makes him bigger than life. Yet it doesn't make him right for the Suns.

Most of all, Shaq can't stay on the floor. He is broken down. He will be 36 next month. He always is hurt now. He has been meeting constantly with doctors this season, MRI after MRI on his hip. His knees still struggle to carry those 340 pounds on his bones. Shaq's spirit was built to endure forever, but his body is a different story.

The Suns are hoping a chance to play for a contender will motivate him to do his rehab and keep his weight down, but even that is wishful thinking. Listen, Shaq had one title left in him. Pat Riley squeezed it out of him. It's over. He doesn't bring Grant Hill's desperation to be a champion. Shaq has been there, done that four times, and you wonder how much that lure even drives him anymore.
Sure, Shaq would've made more sense for the Dallas Mavericks' half-court style, for an owner, Mark Cuban, who doesn't dump good players and future draft picks to stay out of the luxury tax. Yet that's all the Suns have done for the past year under owner Robert Sarver. If the Suns are willing to pay the $40 million owed Shaq over the next two years, they never should have traded tough-guy Kurt Thomas to the Seattle SuperSonics. He always did a good job defending Tim Duncan. He rebounded. He made shots. Most of all, he stayed on the floor.

Ultimately, Shaq can't do that anymore. How in the world is he going to make it to the end of June, through a long playoff run? Odds are he'll be wearing a suit on the bench come playoff time for the Suns.

So yes, Marion wants out of Phoenix. What does it tell you about him that he would welcome a trade to the worst team in the NBA? He wants a max-contract extension, and the Suns are unwilling to pay him. Here in Phoenix, he has a chance to win a championship, but apparently he is thrilled with taking a trip to lottery-land with the Miami Heat. Maybe Marion will opt out of the $17.8 million owed him in 2008-09 and become a free agent. Maybe Pat Riley re-signs him. Either way, Marion ought to call the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson and see how life is with a loser.
Nevertheless, Kerr has played for too many championship teams to even understand a player who would want out of a system and away from a point guard who made him a star. To trade Marion is plausible for a lot reasons, but for Shaq? Now? Without the suspensions against the Spurs in the conference semifinals, the Suns were sure they could've beaten San Antonio. Maybe they were right, but trying to change themselves because the Lakers grabbed Pau Gasol, because they fear the Mavericks will get Jason Kidd, is the wrong way.
Yes, the Suns believe they need strength in the middle. They need a defensive presence. They wanted Amare Stoudemire to move to power forward, where the league's centers no longer can destroy him on a nightly basis. Still, this trade doesn't get the Suns closer to a title, just closer to heartbreak.
"Shaq doesn't fit anything they do," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said Tuesday night. "What makes the Suns great in the half-court is that they pick and roll everybody, all of those guys can shoot it. They have everyone playing a position bigger than they are, like Amare at the five, and Matrix at the four. … And now, you put Shaq out there, and I just don't see how it works.
"I guess he clogs the middle for them on defense, but you are stripping the identity of this team with him. Plus, what does he have left right now?"
Since Kerr took the Suns job in June, he has considered so many different trade scenarios for Marion. He talked with Minnesota and Boston about a three-way deal that would've brought the Suns Kevin Garnett. He talked with Utah about Andrei Kirilenko. To settle on Shaq seems just that – settling.
All along, the Suns believed they had a system that made teams change for them, that ultimately lived and died with the genius of Steve Nash and the go-go teammates. Suddenly, the Suns look so desperate, so unsure of themselves. Maybe this is Kerr and D'Antoni together; maybe this is the president going it alone.

Nevertheless, the message is unmistakable: When it comes to believing they could win a championship with the coach's style, this was a complete cut-and-run on Super Tuesday.

Somehow, this doesn't feel like the Suns are going for it.

It feels like unconditional surrender.

What's next kaya sa oldies trade saga ng NBA until Feb? hehe

We still have Cassell, Kidd talks around the league.

[chain]

agree with the above posted article. the Suns are hoping for Shaq to benefit from the "Nash-effect".

in a related note, this reminds me of what Iverson remarked when asked about C-Webb signing up for the Warriors: "...how is he gonna run with them?"

[RedCoder1]

I don't think Phoenix is even expecting Shaq to run with them on offense.I think what they're trying to do is add another dimension to their offense so that when comes to halfcourt plays they have Shaq waiting for the ball in the middle while the other guys run around the floor looking for or creating holes in the defense.I don't think their running game will be much affected because the other four guys can still run the floor even with Shaq slow to go down the court.It also adds a center that can, hopefully, block or at least deter shots taken at close range within the shaded area.Sana nga kaya pa ni Shaq.Good luck na lang sa kanya.

[kimpOy]

good deal for suns,
marion aint happy, banks is useless, 20M off the book by 2009
but now
imagine playoffs...

[Gumusut_Amige]

whew... another astounding trade! who's next? hope this will spur for the big diesel to shed fats and wont drag or start the suns to set hehehe.
hindi kaya another "a. walker" subject? com'n riley speak the truth

[theveed]

Suns, Heat agree to Shaq trade
td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; } By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports
February 6, 2008
In a move that could signify a dramatic change to their go-go-go, let-it-fly style of play, the Phoenix Suns acquired former All-Star center Shaquille O’Neal from the Miami Heat on Wednesday for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks.
A source with knowledge of the teams’ negotiations told Yahoo! Sports on Tuesday that the Suns had agreed to the trade pending the outcome of O’Neal’s physical. O’Neal passed the physical late Wednesday afternoon in Phoenix to complete the blockbuster deal.
The Miami Herald first reported the Suns and Heat were in serious trade discussions involving O'Neal.
Frustrated by Miami's dramatic dropoff this season – the Heat own the NBA's worst record at 9-37 – O'Neal had begun telling teammates he wanted to be traded but never thought a deal would come to fruition, a Heat source said.
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The trade would represent a dramatic change for the Suns, whose run-and-gun, small-ball style had revolutionized the league in recent seasons. That same style, however, has failed to bring the Suns a championship, and team officials have become increasingly skeptical about their chances of contending without giving Amare Stoudemire some help on the frontline – even though Phoenix owns the Western Conference's best record at 34-14.
While praising recent improvement in Stoudemire's defense, Suns general manager Steve Kerr said last week the team still was doing Stoudemire a "disservice" by playing him at center instead of his more natural power forward position.
While last week's loss to a San Antonio Spurs team missing Tony Parker again raised some doubts, it was the Los Angeles Lakers' acquisition of forward Pau Gasol from the Memphis Grizzlies on Friday that ultimately spurred the Suns to consider aggressively looking for another big man. League sources said the Suns also had conversations about the Charlotte Bobcats' Emeka Okafor and the Philadelphia 76ers' Samuel Dalembert in recent days, but that Miami initiated the trade talks involving O'Neal.
O'Neal, 35, still is a physical presence but seems a poor fit for Phoenix coach Mike D'Antoni's up-tempo offense. He has already missed 14 games this season and is sidelined with bursitis in his left hip. Suns coaches, however, watched film of O'Neal on Tuesday, the source said, and came away thinking O'Neal's strong passing skills from the high post would work well in their half-court schemes. The Suns also have shown increasingly more confidence in playing forward Boris Diaw next to Stoudemire and think that combination will suffice when O'Neal isn't on the floor.
Phoenix doesn't expect O'Neal to keep pace with its transition offense and plans to utilize him as an inbound and outlet passer. His greatest contributions, the Suns hope, will come on the boards and defense, two areas of Stoudemire's game that are lacking.
If completed, the trade will have huge financial ramifications for the Suns. O'Neal has two years and $40 million left on his contract after this season. Banks, who never has earned enough of D'Antoni's trust to become a regular member of the team's rotation, has three seasons and $13.7 million remaining on his deal. Marion has one more season worth $17.8 million but can opt out of the contract and become a free agent this summer.
The Suns have worked to avoid paying a hefty luxury-tax bill, going so far as to trade center Kurt Thomas, their best low-post defender, and two first-round draft picks to Seattle in July just to get Thomas' $8 million salary off their payroll. Trading for O'Neal would give the Suns a 2½-season window to challenge for a championship before the contracts of O'Neal and soon-to-be 34-year-old point guard Steve Nash both expire in the summer of 2010, removing more than $33 million from the team's salary cap.
The Suns also have wanted to address chemistry problems in their locker room. Marion long has felt he doesn't get the respect he deserves – or at least not on par with that of Nash and Stoudemire – and asked to be traded after Kerr turned down his request for a three-year, $60 million extension shortly before the season. Stoudemire also complained last month about not getting enough shots.
The trade's benefits for the Heat are obvious: With this season already lost, they get O'Neal's hefty contract off the books and the chance to free up cap room if they don't sign Marion to an extension. Banks also could become the point guard for which Miami has been searching nearly all season.
News of the pending trade sent shockwaves through a Western Conference landscape still shifting after Gasol's trade to the Lakers. League executives were stunned the Suns even would seriously contemplate such a move, let alone agree to it, given O'Neal's declining production and enormous contract.
Two of Phoenix's biggest rivals, the Spurs and Dallas Mavericks, now are adept at playing small because they had to learn how to match up with the Suns. If the trade is completed, the Suns, in a bizarre change of events, could find themselves having to match down with some of their opponents.
Said one West executive: "I truly thought this was a joke."