Water as Fuel / HHO Technology [Merged Threads]

[webmiester]

Hi guys,

I know there was a thread regarding this but it has been closed down.

While I was surfing the net, I came accross this thing:

http://water4gas-ph.com/

Ild like to ask you guys to give an opinion about what they offer. Is it real? Is it a scam?

We've seen videos on Youtube about guys who have been able to make water combustible, and about the Filipino guy who made his car run on water daw... How about this thing? Please share your opinions. If anyone has tried it, it would be great to see his car!

[webmiester]

Hey guess what? I found their device on ebay! Sells for P10k

Reading through the literature it claims that they cant make the car run totally on water, instead it makes the car engine run more efficiently...

Its starting to sound a lot like the Khaos Super Charger tuloy...

[A121]

Unless the claims are published in a reliable source (i.e. scientific journals), I won't believe them.

[theveed]

hehehe such revelation yet sold on eBay?

[ghosthunter]

The new MINI running on water! Click here to see picture!

[xfreemanx]

I dont think the technology works. My dad, whos a DIY junkie, made one from an article he read in Popular Mechanics a long time ago. Its still on the pickup but Im not sure if it works. He swears it does but Im hard to convince.

[djoverdose]

hey guys... im just a newbie here.... after reading all the pages here, did somebody here actually made one and can attest if this system is a hoax or BS???

No pun intended to others who said lengthy explanation why this wont work or what not but have they actually tried or made one? because sometimes actual computations in papers does not reflex in real time test and in vice versa....

im just really curious about this stuff.... i had read alot of articles about HHO and most of them said it does work.....

heres a link that i saw in the inet.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html

[ghosthunter]

hey guys... im just a newbie here.... after reading all the pages here, did somebody here actually made one and can attest if this system is a hoax or BS???

The whole thing is BS.

No pun intended to others who said lengthy explanation why this wont work or what not but have they actually tried or made one? because sometimes actual computations in papers does not reflex in real time test and in vice versa....

im just really curious about this stuff.... i had read alot of articles about HHO and most of them said it does work.....

heres a link that i saw in the inet.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html

If they said it can work, why haven't they come up with a fully working prototype? It they claim it is easy to make, why is it taking so long?

The answer is simple, really. It doesn't work.

[djoverdose]

^

just curious though, how can you say its BS? have you made your own generator? also its not that easy to make. i mean sourcing for the materials and the cost of it, its not that cheap, plus its not that simple to construct..

im in the process of trying to build one... still sourcing out for the materials and still trying to read on the inet...

yes i have read about HHO and how to do it also read "some" threads saying its fake etc.... but some who says that it doesnt work are basing there assessment through other post from the inet too....

after all of the detailed explanation on the inet why it works, i cant see any detailed explanation saying why it is fake.

i hope i dont start a flame in this thread... im surpirsed about the negative replies from this thread... just want to have a constructive discussion.

[ghosthunter]

just curious though, how can you say its BS? have you made your own generator? also its not that easy to make. i mean sourcing for the materials and the cost of it, its not that cheap, plus its not that simple to construct..

Yes I have. My plates were made from stainless steel. It's not difficult to build if you are familiar with shop tools.

im in the process of trying to build one... still sourcing out for the materials and still trying to read on the inet...

I would say you are wasting your time and money... but go ahead, you are simply wasting YOUR time and money. I would have given my advise to you for free but obviously you seem to know better.

yes i have read about HHO and how to do it also read "some" threads saying its fake etc.... but some who says that it doesnt work are basing there assessment through other post from the inet too....

after all of the detailed explanation on the inet why it works, i cant see any detailed explanation saying why it is fake.

Simply explained... you cannot get any more energy from a closed system that you inject energy into.

HHO process itself produces heat as a waste since the process heats the water. Making the plate closer would lower the wasted heat but not eliminate it. Converting the HHO gas into electricity efficiently would require a fuel cell. Anything less would be less than 50% efficient.

Entropy always increases in each step of any process.

SO unless you can reverse entropy, it will be pointless to try to defend HHO as a valid system.

[danesjr]

Simply explained... you cannot get any more energy from a closed system that you inject energy into.

well said paps. well said.

[djoverdose]

ghost hunter,

Well said sir.... I do get your point now.... hmmm good thing i haven't bought the plates yet because they are a bit expensive....

its just one of those days that your so bored and you have nothing to do and then suddenly you read/saw something that got your attention... that's what prompt me to try this... but like what you said, its a waste of time and money.

maybe it is....

thanks man for the replies.... i appreciate it....

[philmagi]

Hi guys,

I know there was a thread regarding this but it has been closed down.

While I was surfing the net, I came accross this thing:

http://water4gas-ph.com/

Ild like to ask you guys to give an opinion about what they offer. Is it real? Is it a scam?

We've seen videos on Youtube about guys who have been able to make water combustible, and about the Filipino guy who made his car run on water daw... How about this thing? Please share your opinions. If anyone has tried it, it would be great to see his car!

Hi Webniester!

For a short answer to your query, yes it works, if installed properly. It is a system and not just the HHO, hydroxy, oxyhrogen, Browm's gas, Rhode's gas, etc. whatever it is called. The explanation is the longer answer which there may not be enough space to to do it here. Perhaps an email will help. It can become a scam if sellers of kits are just greedy and not able to explain the installation properly, conditions surrouding the hho system to work, including the qualification of the installer.

I have two cars with HHO systems and mileage 15-25% in city driving, 40-60% on hi-way, less pollution by 50-80% according to exhaust gas emission. They are my '99 corrola a/t 1.6 gli and 02 Nissan Gradeur a/t 1.6 li. The original milelages of these cars relatively low. This car are not runnig on hho, but gasoline. The hho gas as product of pulse width electrolysis is injected into the ICE, and properly addressing the ECU sensor signals. MAP, MAF, and O2 sensors are enhanced.

I used these cars once a monthe alternately for the past 11 months, made various adjustments in the electronics, hydrogen generators from ss wires, ss plates, and now into tubular electroyzer. I used NaOH (lye, readily available) not KOH (difficult to find), not baking soda as electrolyte in distilled water. There is so much discussions on how best HHO system is used on topics like hydrogen generator, flashback arrestor, check valeves, ignition timing, MAP/MAF/O2 sensors, safety, etc.

If your driving style is sporty, this hho system i have is not for you, but indeed nice to have for mileage seekers. HHO system like gasoline if not handled properly is lethal. I have had my share of two explosions during my learning period. I fabricated and demonstrated last month before my family a micro hho gas torch. It is crude and ugly prototype, gas production is small, but with is the full way of producing at a single cooking top. It took sometime to make it to ensure that gas velovity at tip of welding tip is much faster than flame propagation of HHO, otherwise there will be flashback. There was fun.

If you wish to see my car with the hho system, call my CP 0920XXXXXXX, Res tel XXXXXXX. XXX, Las Pinas. It is simple. no greed, public domain, and dedicated to all those passionately curious to save motherearth for our chidren and generations to come.

philmagi

[KERSMcRae]

[SIZE=3]I was reading a similar article on the internet. I did some "bing" because of a thread regarding the "estafa case against D.D." [/SIZE]




[SIZE=3]I didnt expect somebody can do this here in RP.[/SIZE]

OT:
Save ko na ito baka ganito gawin ng mod:

If you wish to see my car with the hho system, call my CP 09XXXXXXXXX, Res tel XXXXXXX. ******, *** *****. It is simple. no greed, public domain, and dedicated to all those passionately curious to save motherearth for our chidren and generations to come.

XXXXXX

he he he

[ghosthunter]

*philmagi

So what is the gas production rate of your "typical" HHO cell? How many liters per minute?

[philmagi]

*philmagi

So what is the gas production rate of your "typical" HHO cell? How many liters per minute?

Ghosthunter,

Hi! The hho set-up in each car produces about 1/2 lpm commonducted hho gas, no separation of the hydrogen and oxygen peoduced. This is all I need to enhanced combustion of gasoline. I tried four cells in series but tight on the accelerator pedal respond. With two cells, respond is better with adjustments on the ignotion timing.

It consist of 2 hydrogen cells in series across the 12 volt system, or 6 volts per cell, or about 2 volts per electrode considering the two neutrals between + and - electrodes. the cells are cool even after hours of driving from Mla to Baguio, less that 65 deg c. Theoretically there is only 1.24 volts needed between electrodes, according to researchers, and above it will only result to heating, and is true when I had no neutrals in the early stages.

It has evolved from ss wire electrodes to ss multiple plates in mason jars, and now just acquired from Binondo ss steel tubes for my full-pledged cutting micro cutting torch, which I demontrated last month. A multiple of these modular cells should be sufficient for a single cooking top. Will update you on developments. Back on the cars, truckers in the US uses hho at least 2-3 lpm. Above 3 lpm, according to reaserchers, the hho becomes a fuel in its own rights, and major adjustments maybe required. My objective is no engine/ecu conversion.

This hho project is only a hobby during my free time. I am retired 66 yrs old, ME, EE, Process Engr for Surface/UG mine to include design of small/med/large coal/oil thermal Power Plants, electro winning/refinning, power grids and still working as consultants and VPO for one of the oldest mining company just to survive. Considering my background, this project is close to my heart, and I find joy in it.

If seriously envolved in this project, try a hi-caliber forum "waterfuelforall". I noticed molecular physicist, academe, engineers, inclyding Bod Boyce hinself, most important of all are the passionately curious mile seekers, and some from other countries are now joining. I am still learning and glad to hear from others, hoping this forum will become like one. Try to research on "hydrogen timeline", "limelight", and NASA lab test results on using HHO gas as ICE booster.

This is all, and keep up with your enthusiasm, most critical ingredient in this undertaking. After this, one will understand what Mr. D. D. is saying or not, the gentleman who claims to run car on 100% pure water. I am not really sure about this, but the probality is there. I wish him the best of everthing, and will not hesitate to help if needed.

"Good ideas are always met with violent reaction" - Einstein.

Goog night.

philmagi.

[ghosthunter]

*philmagi

I assume you have considered that the HHO production fed directly to the ICE intake will simply offset the amount of air so the result will be a "richer" air-fuel" mixture. Up to a point this will lead to better power but as HHO flow rate is increased, the amount of fuel (gasoline or diesel) will have to be reduced. The amount required for adjustment can be adjusted using current electronic car tuning aids including AFC (air flow converter/controller) and wideband oxygen sensors.

I assume that you have not used any method to adjust your fuel flow since you didn't mention it at all.

You can increase the amount of HHO production from your cells and get better fuel mileage numbers if you can adjust (lessen) your petrol/diesel flow. Current Super-AFCs are pretty sophisticated enough that it might be the tool you'll need to help you adjust your vehicle's performance.

[philmagi]

*philmagi

I assume you have considered that the HHO production fed directly to the ICE intake will simply offset the amount of air so the result will be a "richer" air-fuel" mixture. Up to a point this will lead to better power but as HHO flow rate is increased, the amount of fuel (gasoline or diesel) will have to be reduced. The amount required for adjustment can be adjusted using current electronic car tuning aids including AFC (air flow converter/controller) and wideband oxygen sensors.

I assume that you have not used any method to adjust your fuel flow since you didn't mention it at all.

You can increase the amount of HHO production from your cells and get better fuel mileage numbers if you can adjust (lessen) your petrol/diesel flow. Current Super-AFCs are pretty sophisticated enough that it might be the tool you'll need to help you adjust your vehicle's performance.

Ghosthunter,

Hi again! In my '99 Corolla, a/t, 1.6 gli, there is only the manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor with 3 wires to enhance. The signal wire is cut and fitted with MAP enhancer consisting mainly of potentiometer and ground resistor to cover a wider adjustment of leaning the engine air to fuel ratio (AFR) beyond the normal 14.7:1 ratio. There is no O2 sensor, and this is weird for I thought all 1996 models and up are fitted with on board diagnostic OBDII, not OBD I. So I contol the MAP signal before going to ECU like hadicapping, without over leaning AFR. I do this only with the electrolyzer on to avoid overheating at higher rpm. the HHO pruduction is limited by premixed electolyte solution, distilled water and NaOH (lye) just a bit over 10 amps, 13.8 volts. Amperage wihich may increase in longer drive is trimmed further to just 10 amps by pulse width modulator (PWM) at 100 hz, my only purpose in installing it is not for resonant frequency tuner.

I am happy with th current set-up and gives 15-25% mileage for city driving, and at one time 72.8% in controlled hi-way driving along NLEX and SLEX. This clculation has to be corrected as to compare apple to apple by outright 10% less when compared to normal driving. With the HHO, engine temp drops to 1/3 gage when in hi-way, compared to the orignal at 1/2. When I am in town proper where ther is heavier traffic, the temp goes back to 1/2 reading.

In my '02 Nissan Grandeur, a/t, 1.6 li, there is the also 3-wired mass air flow (MAF) sensor not MAP, and one 3-wired O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold. I used a MAF enhancer similar to the MAP enhancer but diffrent values of resistors. It is a "hot wire" MAF and voltage variant. I used a mechanical type O2 enhancer, i.e. retracted the sensor 3/4 in with a spacer ( made from the machine shop) and isolator to fool the sensor a little bit. It is newer model O2 sensor with only outgoing wire and the insulator limited space to sense outside O2 level. Though I would prefer that I have electronic fuel injection enhancer (EFIE) to address the situation right at the dashboard. I am happy with current setup and getting similar effect with my corolla. The electrolyzer amperage is also controlled by the PWM.

I am limiting my electrolyzer to 0.5 lpm for each car. The electrolyzer produces constant gas quantity. I am also in a US forum, and there is a new developmet of circuit board to over ride the entire ECU programming. We just give the model number of the engine for computer flashing and installation of the so called "OPEC" circuit board. Many problems in the HHO system have been traced to the ECU. I dont think I would go into this yet as my purpose is without engine/ecu conversionm and happy with current setup.

On your suggestion, I will nr reviewing my setup and see how I could incorporate it in my system. Will inform you of development. TY.

philmagi

[ghosthunter]

* philmagi

I also drive a 99 Toyota Corolla 1.6 GLi A/T. The original exhaust manifold has the oxygen sensor installed at the lower section. The original oxygen sensor is a single wire type which is sensitive to the temperature. When the fans activate, the sensor readings fluctuate too much to be useful. Either insulate the sensor (exhaust wrap) or relocate sensor away from the radiator fans. I know this because I used to have a digital meter connected to the stock O2 sensor.

As for your gains in fuel mileage... you might want to reconsider the gains. Without anything else, I typically manage a FC of around 5 to 6 km/L in city traffic (mandaluyong, makati, sanjuan, pasig, cubao areas). Driving NLEX to Clark and back, I can manage 13+ km/L. Weekend driving in the city gets me around 8km/L. My FC figures might not be the same as yours but the percentage "gains" seems similar, doesn't it?

I am not trying to discount your "achievements" but this is just comparing my car's figures against yours.

BTW, just to let you know, I am currently using an Auto-LPG kit. Benefits is savings in fuel cost (between 35% to 45% savings) while getting the same FC and almost the same engine performance. If you want to read up on this, I can show you a link to the discussion thread for this.

[MAXBUWAYA]

Any photos of the car and engine Mr. Philmagi?