Military Hardware Thread [Split]

[FrankDrebin]

Turbo-prop is not old for Philippine Standard anyway. Go for it!!:D

[oldblue]

swedish stealth ship.

[yebo]

here's another site of the super tucano showing the intruments and night vision gear for the pilot...

http://www.aviationweek.com/shownews...e/topsto02.htm

[orly_andico]

Diesel-Electric subs are only usable in shallow waters and for short operations only (great for defending ports & channels).

Tell that to WW2 Grand-Admiral Karl Donitz, who sent U-boats into the Indian Ocean (the Monsoon Group).

Their batteries will only last upto around 12 hours only (provided that you don't run at full speed) and afterwards they already need to use the noisy diesel engines to recharge them. In that process, they also need to snorkel for fresh air (although some newer diesel-electric subs have developed more advanced air circulation systems that will allow longer snorkel time intervals).

Diesel-electric boats have changed a great deal since World War II. We're not talking about Type VI-C U-boats or Romeo-class boats here..

German U-212/214 class boats with hydrogen fuel-cell Air-Independent Propulsion system:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

Swedish Gotland-class diesel-electric boats have Stirling-cycle closed-loop air-independent propulsion and can go 3 weeks without surfacing. The US Navy rented the HMS Gotland from Sweden in 2005.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gotland/

"In May 2005 the Gotland was leased to the U.S. Navy for one year, complete with Swedish crew. The Gotland will initially be based in San Diego, where the U.S. Navy will practice joint maneuvers with the stealthy AIP-equipped diesel submarine.[4] The vessel will later operate on the east coast of the United States. According to the Swedish newspaper Blekinge Läns Tidning, U.S. interest in the Gotland class was aroused during joint naval exercises when the U.S. Navy was unable to track the Swedish submarine.[5]"

In this case, if a CBG suspects that a diesel-electric sub is operating in the area they can just deploy further from shore to limit the sub's effectiveness.

The Los Angeles class of the USN is one of the best ASW (anti-submarine warfare) / CBG-escort submarines around. If that is not enough, the USN also has ASW aircrafts that can be deployed (Orion or Viking???). A new ASW aircraft is also in the works.

the LA class is obsolescent.
Many of the boats have already been retired and cut up. The Virginia-class SSN is the replacement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_class_submarine

diesel-electric boats are quieter because they don't need reactor pumps. the only nuclear sub with passive cooling is the Ohio-class SSBN.

[FrankDrebin]

I stand corrected by the Sub Guys! :D

Anyway, I remember this old Sean Connery-Alec Baldwin movie-The Hunt for Red October, is that technology in that Russian Sub currently used nowadays?

[orly_andico]

actually in the book, the "caterpillar drive" was just a ducted turbine (instead of a propeller). the current British SSN's (Trafalgar-class) use this technology (also known as "pump jet" propulsion -- same principle as a jetski).

in the movie they changed it to an MHD (magnetohydrodynamic drive). which is currently not practical (only a few experimental Japanese boats -- as in boats, not submarines, not ships) have it. MHD has no moving parts but requires tremendous amounts of electricity. it basically moves seawater past the ship's hull using a magnetic field alone.

[mazdamazda]

Diesel-electric boats have changed a great deal since World War II. We're not talking about Type VI-C U-boats or Romeo-class boats here..

The new gen diesel-electrics (with AIP) is still not yet widely used. Only the Germans & Swedish have a handful of them.

Swedish Gotland-class diesel-electric boats have Stirling-cycle closed-loop air-independent propulsion and can go 3 weeks without surfacing. The US Navy rented the HMS Gotland from Sweden in 2005.

3 weeks at the speed of 5 knots.

As I've said... good for short / homefront operations only. They still need to refuel somehow after their diesel is gone.

Plus, SSNs are more difficult to manage in shallow waters - that is why Diesel-Electrics will definitely have an advantage there (as I've said before). Plus, operating on homewaters will give them a very BIG advantage as they can blend in with local water traffic & even the environment.

But for deep water operations - the SSNs will still lord it over them anytime.

the LA class is obsolescent.
Many of the boats have already been retired and cut up. The Virginia-class SSN is the replacement.

That is still up in the air. Although some LA class have already been decommissioned but the US is still contemplating on refueling some LA class to extend their service life (as the new Virginia is a bit costly at around $2B each).

[FrankDrebin]

Hmmm, the German diesel U-Boats of WW2 terrorized the British at the Atlantic Ocean.

[mazdamazda]

Hmmm, the German diesel U-Boats of WW2 terrorized the British at the Atlantic Ocean.

That just during the first few years of the war.

Afterwards - it was a downward spiral for the U-boat.

===

Watching The History Channel & Discovery is now paying off. ;)

[BlueBimmer]

mga walking military encyclopedia ata kayo e!

[FrankDrebin]

Is it that the Allies uses both its Airforce(Catalinas) and Navy(Destroyers) to flush down the U-Boats?

[jaeger]

Re: the myth about CBG (carrier battle group) invincibility. The soviets were practical in their military doctrines and they developed simple crude strategies which work. During the 60's up to the 90's all soviet made anti-ship missiles had 3 basic characteristics:

1- OTH range (40 to 60 nautical miles as the americans would put it)
2- accept mid-course guidance from a Kamov tandem rotor helo
3- pack a 20 kiloton nuke warhead (minimum, some had 1-megaton nukes)

haven't you noticed that practically all the soviet anti-ship missiles were nuclear-tipped up to the 90's (even those fired from fast attack boats) for saturation attacks.

The idea was to launch a sea-skimmer from an OTH (over-the-horizon)position with the Kamov to correct terminal guidance from the horizon, arm the missile and guide it to the center of the carrier battlegroup. Once within the vicinity, detonate the nuke to wipe-out the entire carrier battlegroup. The soviets were not targetting individual ships, the nuke would take care of all the ships in the CBG.

To address this, the americans brought out the ER (extended-range) variant of the Standard missile with OTH capability principally to shoot down the Kamov so it won't be able to provide terminal guidance, nor arm the missile and hope the missile would just go astray.

Same principle with Warsaw Pact invasion doctrines. After the Berlin Wall fell, the soviet land forces hurriedly packed and went back home. In the central command base in Poland, NATO forces saw field manuals on how the Warsaw Pact armies would use tactical nukes of up to 5 kiloton neutron bombs since these had no blast damage, only enhanced radiation to kill all living organism and the neutron radiation would dissipate in minutes (electron radiation takes years to dissipate). As NATO admits, their villages are just 2 kilotons apart. (the a-bombs dropped in Japan during WWII were 2 kilotons).

[yebo]

(the a-bombs dropped in Japan during WWII were 2 kilotons).

ahhh, ang alam ko ang hiroshima bomb 12 kT, ang nagasaki bomb 15kT.

[BlueBimmer]

alin ba talaga? 2 kilotons seems too weak for an a-bomb..

[StraightSix]

Grabe ... ang bilis humaba nitong thread, hehehe. Maghapon lang akong busy, bilasa na yung mga posts na sasagutin ko. Anyway, na-DIY ko na ang annual service ng harabas kong Civic. Pasado na siya sa safety/emissions test at bayad ko na rin ang Road Tax. Pulubi na naman ako, all in one day.

* rhops - personally, mas gusto ko hardware nung WWII - aircraft and armor. Walang fly-by-wire, plug-and-play, point-and-shoot, hehe. Matira ang matibay. Although I hate their politics, I admire the skill of people like Michael Wittman and Erich Hartmann, and also Douglas Bader, Saburo Sakai, etc.

Mga tanong mo na MBT's ngayon ... Challenger II (UK), Leclerc (France) and Leopard II (Germany). Germany and the US used to work together on the MBT-70 tank, but design thinking was really at odds so they separated and the US made the Abrams and Germany the Leopard I.

* badkuk - The US did use helicopters in combat in Korea but not as widely and extensively as in Vietnam. They did a battalion-size insertion once behind enemy lines, that's the biggest ops afaik. Trivia: As early as 1938-41 the Germans were already testing helicopters for rescue of downed pilots.

Tama ka sa plight ng mga beterano natin. The simple fact is, nung 1941-1945 hindi pa sovereign ang Pilipinas at ang sundalong Pilipino under pa sa command structure ng USAFFE, 'merkano pa leader, si dugout Doug.

[oldblue]

when you say kilotons, yun yun di-nrop o yun yun magnitude ng naproduce na bomb

[StraightSix]

Tell that to WW2 Grand-Admiral Karl Donitz, who sent U-boats into the Indian Ocean (the Monsoon Group).

Adding to this ... German U-Boats even made trips to Japan and back to Germany during the war, and so did fleet submarines of the Japanese navy made trips to Germany. On some trips, there were cargos like the ME-109. PAK-88, etc. even the ME-262 jet fighter during the closing stages of the war.

[oldblue]

hmmm...anong brand/model ung maliliit na helicopters na laging kalaban ni AirWolf dati? i think it's the same one sa BlackHawk Down -- the really small ones who were doing strafing support? swak na swak sa budget natin un

eto ba yun MH-6



yun minsan sa movies may naka-mount na chain gun left & right.

meron ata tayo ng ganito, sa mga Lito Lapid movies mayrun hehehe

[StraightSix]

Is it that the Allies uses both its Airforce(Catalinas) and Navy(Destroyers) to flush down the U-Boats?

Yes ... PBY Catalina's, B-24 Liberator's, Short Sunderland's ... basically any long-range aircraft the Air Force guys can give to close the air gap between Canada and Britain. This was closed by the addition of Greenland as a base and introduction of escort carriers (with Wildcats/Hellcats) into the convoy system.

But none of it would have mattered if it weren't for the British invention, radar.

[oldblue]

correction AH-6 Little Bird pala kapag may naka-mount na weapons









siguro puwede na 'to sa tin. can afford na nga natin ito ...