Military Hardware Thread [Split]

[Altis6453]

eto yung Israeli Kfir jets na napropose noon. when I read on the news, hinintay ko na dumating. Instead, what we got were the italian made S211 trainer jets which as of last count, tatlong beses na yata nag-crash.




ang isa pang nabalitaan ko sa news, inoffer daw ng Russia yung Fulcrum mig29 sa Pinas. This was after the "perestroika"/glasnost revolution in Russia nung panahon ni Gorbachev. obviously, di rin natuloy



IMHO, we need a decent jet fighter force. kahit isang squadron man lang. lalo na't meron tayong border dispute sa spratlys. wala man lang tayong border patrol makapag fly-by patrol dun sa areas na yun. Considering na ang laki ng archipelago natin, we need a decent air force that could at least conduct quick patrol runs.

Yep, I heard about that offer from Russia. They were interested in our agri products, I think. Yes, we need a decent and credible air defense system with jets at the forefront since they can respond to threats faster than ships can.

Yung navy natin can do with Fast Patrol Craft or those hydrofoil-based patrol ships since we're more concerned with piracy and smuggling.

[mrpink]

OT: F5 yung Batplane ni Batman nung 70's

[niky]

Blackhawks are too expensive, IMHO. Westland Lynx or Aerospiatle products would serve our needs just as well, without the extra cost.

Hydrofoils or some of those new British light craft would do nicely for our Navy. Frigates are just plain useless for fighting smugglers and pirates.

[mbt]

whew! ang dami palang military hardware enthusiasts sa tsikot hehe

[StraightSix]

Northrop makes some excellent aircraft, but they have been unfairly beaten at competitions for USAF contracts for two of their recent developments, the F20 Tigershark and the F23 fighter (Lockheed won with the F22).

If you think the ATF competition was unfair, mas matindi yung competition sa JSF, which Lockheed won again. The stakes were a lot bigger, as the Joint Strike Fighter winner will equip the USAF, USN, USMC, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force with a projected total of 6,000 planes in 40 years. Winner takes all, ika nga. The JSF plane has one distinct feature in addition to the ATF winner, the F/A-22 Raptor ... Vertical/Short Take Off and Landing (V/STOL)

I saw the program, nung competition between Lockheed's X-35 and Boeing's X-32. Lockheed's X-35 won because it delivered the required performances on time. The clincher was the V/STOL ... at the deadline, the X-35 can go from supersonic to V/STOL and vice versa, during the same flight. Boeing's X-32 was not able to do that without landing and modifying the plane.

[coiter]

nawala na talaga yung modernization program ng afp. ang namodernize lang e yung mga bahay at kotse ng mga heneral. tsk tsk

[rhops]

maka add na rin

how about a harrier jump jet for us? VTOL which is suitable sa insurgents. Kaya lang one issue is flyability, ive read that its very difficult to fly. and also the issue of parts and maintainance since luma na rin ang mga ito. May russian equivalent ata ito (YAK ata yung NATO name). Pero in my opinion we really need to maintain at least a squadron of supersonic fighter. Kaso nga lang medyo monopolize tayo ng kano in terms of aquiring military hardware. Why not look into india and china where they have developed indegenous jet fighters? Also we need to develop our helicopter gunship fleet since eto talaga yung workhorse ng airforce natin ngayon (against insurgents) and dual purpose pa pag may calamity. Talagang aging na yung mga UH1 natin.

Sayang pa naman ang galing ng pilotong filipino, marami tayong piloto problema yung paliliparin

[niky]

If you think the ATF competition was unfair, mas matindi yung competition sa JSF, which Lockheed won again. The stakes were a lot bigger, as the Joint Strike Fighter winner will equip the USAF, USN, USMC, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force with a projected total of 6,000 planes in 40 years. Winner takes all, ika nga. The JSF plane has one distinct feature in addition to the ATF winner, the F/A-22 Raptor ... Vertical/Short Take Off and Landing (V/STOL)

I saw the program, nung competition between Lockheed's X-35 and Boeing's X-32. Lockheed's X-35 won because it delivered the required performances on time. The clincher was the V/STOL ... at the deadline, the X-35 can go from supersonic to V/STOL and vice versa, during the same flight. Boeing's X-32 was not able to do that without landing and modifying the plane.

Actually, I do like the ATF winner, but the F-23 was arguably the stealthier, more sophisticated and more modern aircraft. The F22 won on good looks and dogfighting ability. Basically, it appealed to the little boy in the generals who were judging the aircraft. :lol:

Yung unfair was the F20 - F16 competition. The F20 was built for ultra-quick response time (if they were stationed near New York, they could have theoretically been scrambled to the WTC site ten to fifteen minutes earlier than F16s) and, being based on the F5, would have been a devastatingly good dogfighter.

[FrankDrebin]

It is not the big ass frigates I'm talking about brother but the smaller ones like missile-equipped FFG 7 - class. It will be use for support and rescue(heli-pad equipped) since we don't have one. The navy is currently using a transport ship for its support and rescue duties. Fast attack missile boat will handle the pirates.

[orly_andico]

with a single cruise missile costing $5M....
the whole "missile" bit seems to ring a bit hollow.

i think it was casper weinberger who said that the nuclear device costs much less than its delivery system..

meaning, missiles are extremely expensive. and as for patrol boats.. heck we can't even maintain the three peacock-class patrol boats that we purchased from the royal hong kong squadron in 1997. i believe two of them are already non-functional.

[mazdamazda]

I want this shiznit over here!



A really good multi-role helicopter...

Though a nice addition would be the Kiowa Recon Copter (remember the attack chopers from Black Hawk Down?).

And as said before... we need are fast water patrol crafts that can be mainly used for interception. I think that the Super Dvora MK II (an Israeli creation) fits the bill:

[FrankDrebin]

Ok. Out na ang missile but it should be missile-ready boat/ship. :D Or we should use a tsikot modified marine engine for our bangkas as a fast-attack cayak?

[orly_andico]

the navy is now assembling/manufacturing small patrol boats similar to that dvora in cavite! it's a licensed design of vosper-thorneycroft, a UK company if i recall correctly.

the peacock boats are actually quite decent, they have a guide-by-wire OTO melara 76mm autocannon, which is plenty for whacking abu solaiman and his gang. there was even a plan to arm the peacocks with penguin antiship missiles (making them, in theory, capable of cripping a carrier).

but see where all of that got us... nowhere. the navy can't even maintain the peacocks with their base armament. this, in spite of the fact that the brits gave us all the blueprints for the three boats (actually they're more of corvettes).

[FrankDrebin]

Hehehe. Huwag na nating pagusapan ang status ng gobyerno dito at maiinis lang tayo. Masisira lang ang pangarap natin. :D

[StraightSix]

Actually, I do like the ATF winner, but the F-23 was arguably the stealthier, more sophisticated and more modern aircraft. The F22 won on good looks and dogfighting ability. Basically, it appealed to the little boy in the generals who were judging the aircraft. :lol:

Yung unfair was the F20 - F16 competition. The F20 was built for ultra-quick response time (if they were stationed near New York, they could have theoretically been scrambled to the WTC site ten to fifteen minutes earlier than F16s) and, being based on the F5, would have been a devastatingly good dogfighter.

Mahina kasi lobbyists nila, hehehe. Pera usapan diyan, at mas magaling makipag-usap ang pera.

The rejection of the F-20 was really a big blow to Northrop. After losing the Air Force contract, they were counting on overseas sales, but were outmanoeuvered again by the F-16 proponents.

rhops, that would be the YAK-38 Forger V/STOL, which looks similar to the Harrier. I'm not familiar with Indian production, but the best the Chinese can produce is a modified MIG-21 - hanggang dyan lang ang license at copy na binigay ng mga Russo sa kanila, tapos nagka-tampuhan na sila at nagka-love triangle with the US .

[FrankDrebin]

Hehehe. More! More! I love this thread. :D

[rsnald]

punta naman tayo sa tangke... ano ba ang tangke na nasa armored division ng Philippine Army? Light Armored tank battallion or brigadelang yata meron tayo, yung mga Simba tanks? baka na-latero na yung mga armor nila

[oldblue]

ah Harrier, I like. speaking of which, bakit d i-develop yun mga VTOL jetfighters? or may disadvantages ba ito?

[oldblue]

the navy is now assembling/manufacturing small patrol boats similar to that dvora in cavite! it's a licensed design of vosper-thorneycroft, a UK company if i recall correctly.

the peacock boats are actually quite decent, they have a guide-by-wire OTO melara 76mm autocannon, which is plenty for whacking abu solaiman and his gang. there was even a plan to arm the peacocks with penguin antiship missiles (making them, in theory, capable of cripping a carrier).

but see where all of that got us... nowhere. the navy can't even maintain the peacocks with their base armament. this, in spite of the fact that the brits gave us all the blueprints for the three boats (actually they're more of corvettes).

do we even have simulators here? yun pang F-16, pang F-5 etc. that alone costs millions di'ba. at least mas ok mag-train dun kahit lam beses mo i-crash, demerit lang sa mga trainee pero wala financial loss in terms of crashes.

[StraightSix]

OK ah ... na-split na ang thread. So maybe we can broaden the discussion/kwentuhan. So how's this?

During the Korean War, it was a little-known fact that Russian pilots in Chinese-marked MIG-15's were actually involved in dogfights against American F-86 Sabres. The MIG-15 is acknowledged to be better than the F-86, esp. in firepower - the MIGs use 23mm/37mm cannons with explosive shells while the Sabre's 0.50-cal shells can only make holes in high altitudes (thin oxygene). The kill ratio, however, was still in favor of the Americans because of better training and tactics.

The Russians tried the same crap in the Middle East. They were always berating the Egyptian pilots for having their asses kicked by Israeli pilots, saying that MIGs are better than US fighters ... they had their chance on April 30, 1970 when 8 Russian-piloted, Egyptian-marked MIG-21's bounced a pair of Israeli F-4's escorted by 4 Mirage III's. What the Russians didn't know, it was a set-up, and that all Israeli jets were piloted by the IDF's best.

The 4 Mirage III's lured the 8 MIG's, and were joined by another 4 Israeli Mirages. When the Russians saw this they launched a further 12 MIGs, in turn 4 Israeli F-4's joined the fray and the Russians dispatched 4 more MIGs ... bringing the total to 24 Russian MIG-21's and 12 Israeli F-4's and Mirage's.

The result ... 2 MIG's were shot down by Mirage's and another 2 by F-4's. A fifth MIG-21 crashed near its base because of battle damage. A 5:0 victory for the Israelis. Soon afterwards, all Russian pilots were shipped home.