Things you need to know before idolizing marcos

[ragoney]

You certainly do not sound like it.

its only a matter of our different views I do not idolize Marcos, but his works are hard to ignore even when its terrible. Respect is what I have

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[ClaNker]

You certainly do not sound like it.

The likes of Marcos lang daw. Eh di same banana pa rin.

[jhnkvn]

Why keep on doing "let's say" when there are actual facts to go by?

Ayan investor na naman, when it suits your argument.

Why? Uhh.. because it's a metaphor? Doesn't take a mad genius to figure that out seeing I've been using it extensively in the car audio section to enlighten newbies.

Okay, you state facts. I didn't refute those facts. But I did give you counterarguments that Marcos isn't the sole reason why we're down in the buckets.

Again,

Unless masmagaling ka pa sa mga economists ng Federal Reserve, European Central Bank, Banco Sentral ng Philippines, Bank of Japan, and People's Bank of China. What Marcos did at his time was correct fiscal policy wise.

Which you then gave me credentials of Solita Monsod.. which according to you has figures to "back it up"

She was pointing out how bad the economy was.

Unless mas magaling ka sa up cum laude graduate, masters in economics, candidate for PhD. Professor in U.P.. As jhnkvn would point out.

Since I was away enjoying my vacation at Fontana at that time, I didn't bother replying immediately. In fact, I'm simply surprised how much pages the thread grew. But sasabihin ko lang sayo ang credentials ni Paul Volcker who was Fed Chairman during the third term of Marcos.. (but since I'm too lazy, wikipedia nalang natin)

Volcker's undergraduate education was at Princeton University; he graduated in 1949. He earned his M.A. in political economy from Harvard University's Graduate School of Arts and Sciences and Graduate School of Public Administration in 1951 and then attended the London School of Economics from 1951 to 1952 as a Rotary Foundation Ambassadorial Fellow, under the Rotary's Ambassadorial Scholarships program.

Volcker has received honorary degrees from several educational institutions including: Hamilton College (1980), University of Notre Dame, Princeton University, Dartmouth College, New York University, University of Delaware,[7] Fairleigh Dickinson University, Bryant College, Adelphi University, Lamar University, Bates College (1989), Fairfield University (1994), Williams College (2003),[8] Northwestern University (2004), Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (2005), Brown University (2006), Georgetown University (2007), Syracuse University (2008), Queen's University at Kingston in Canada (2009), and Amherst College (2011).

And you wouldn't want me to state the ECB Chairman's resume either..

So, which "figures to back it up" are we talking about?

[jhnkvn]

Gamitin natin yang sample mo....
Ikaw ang lumalabas na bobo kasi hindi ka marunong mamili ng ilalagay mo sa pwesto. Ang nagpalala pa nito bukod sa manager na inilagay mo naglagay ka rin ng staff na magnanakaw kaya lalo ka nalulugi. Tapos sinabi mo ngayon na buti pa yung naunang inilagay ko siya lang ang magnanakaw (centralized) eto ngayon lahat na sila nagnanakaw na (decentralized).
As an investor parehong ayaw mo ng magnanakaw kahit ano pang style yan diba? Pero baka nga iba ka kasi you prefer a certain style.

Ang point ko sa una kong reply, kung nung umpisa pa lang nakapaglatag ng magandang foundation yung unang manager may tutularan sana yung mga susunod. Lumalabas kasi na parang super idol ninyo si Marcos to the point na ipinapagtanggol ninyo pati mga mali niya. Di ko din sinabing santo ang mga nakalagay ngayon sa pwesto dahil napakalayo nun sa katotohanan. Pero di ko gusto ibalik or palabasin na ok ang gagong nagumpisa ng lahat.

As an investor pareho ayaw.. true. But if you were to pick centralized over systemic.. ano ang kukunin mo? The answer isn't that hard.

Hindi ko ipinapalabas na super idol si Marcos. Read back 30 pages and you'll see I acknowledged his faults and his achievements. As with [archie], I will again remind you guys that I play the median - an observer. Debate ba? Discussion ito last time I remember. But whatever I refute, you guys automatically take it as if I'm "the enemy" and "the other side" or "pro-Marcos lovers".

We may all point to Marcos.. <insert long narration here with a result of: mali siya>. But again, whenever we do something.. we point it out to Marcos. It's like beating a dead horse.. (well, in this case a dead man).

Archie keeps pointing out our economy suffered. True. But so did a lot of countries in the world during the same time. niky pointed out that there's no ROI, but how can there be ROI if the infrastructure is there but non-utilized [BPP project]?

So.. I'll give you a case of systemic corruption.

This is true.

My brother is a gen. manager in one of the car dealers in Manila. During Lim's time as mayor, their usual taxes for every vehicle release is about .25%. When Estrada came in, he raised it to 1%!. But here's the catch, they offered to lower it to .22% if they pay 5M to this certain bank account. They had no choice and paid the 5M. Its a Small price to pay compared to the taxes amounting to almost 20M because of the unnecessary quadrupled taxes. What a Mugger.

Must be because of Marcos too eh? :naughty2:

[ragoney]

The likes of Marcos lang daw. Eh di same banana pa rin.

Sir mag aasaran naman ba tayo today?

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[Bin Diesel]

its only a matter of our different views I do not idolize Marcos, but his works are hard to ignore even when its terrible. Respect is what I have

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Yes there are things he did that are commendable even some of his visions are but this should not blind us from all the wrongs he has done.
What makes me disappointed at him is the fact that he had the best opportunity to make this country great and prepare it for the next generation but in the end he chose a different path. I guess being in power unmasks who we really are.

[[archie]]

Why? Uhh.. because it's a metaphor? Doesn't take a mad genius to figure that out seeing I've been using it extensively in the car audio section to enlighten newbies.

Okay, you state facts. I didn't refute those facts. But I did give you counterarguments that Marcos isn't the sole reason why we're down in the buckets.

Again,



Which you then gave me credentials of Solita Monsod.. which according to you has figures to "back it up"



Since I was away enjoying my vacation at Fontana at that time, I didn't bother replying immediately. In fact, I'm simply surprised how much pages the thread grew. But sasabihin ko lang sayo ang credentials ni Paul Volcker who was Fed Chairman during the third term of Marcos.. (but since I'm too lazy, wikipedia nalang natin)



And you wouldn't want me to state the ECB Chairman's resume either..

So, which "figures to back it up" are we talking about?

Let's say and what if does not apply if there are actual facts to go by.

So dismiss natin local economist because your source has more credentials? She was pointing out the devastating effects.

Yet rule out economic indicators of our country but in favor of world economic indicators.

To suit your argument...

[funkeemunkee]

We should unlearn the wrong notion that FM propelled the PHL as second to Japan, in terms of economic development. We were already behind Singapore and Malaysia in 1983. By 1984 Thailand overtook the PHL. Look at the part about Marcosian economic policies and you'll see why.
http://afrim.org.ph/IDLS/files/origi...d39b5dc2ed.pdf

[ragoney]

Yes there are things he did that are commendable even some of his visions are but this should not blind us from all the wrongs he has done.
What makes me disappointed at him is the fact that he had the best opportunity to make this country great and prepare it for the next generation but in the end he chose a different path. I guess being in power unmasks who we really are.

Well said. He had the best record from his early term and became mad with power. It may not be recorded clearly among history but im pretty sure he absorbed Machiavelli and Sun Tzus principles very well, thus the power struggle.

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[Bin Diesel]

As an investor pareho ayaw.. true. But if you were to pick centralized over systemic.. ano ang kukunin mo? The answer isn't that hard.

Centralized is systemic right? As an investor you said it wala, so kung ano pipiliin ko wala.