Things you need to know before idolizing marcos

**ClaNker** · June 14th, 2014 01:19 PM

Human rights violation during Martial Law days compared today... "May pinagbago ba?"

Noooooooo.

**jhnkvn** · June 14th, 2014 01:26 PM

Take note that I don't take Marcos as a saint nor do I highly revere him. I did not refute the human right killings under his regime nor did I say that his policies are automatically wrong. It was a chance he took and lost the bet. But I'd rather have leaders that tries to shake up the country, take the risk, and do rather than leaders who says national apologies or leaders who were convicted of plunder and running again in the country.

As an entrepreneur, I like risk. Because not taking action - not taking risk is the same as ineptitude. Without decisions, there's no progress. Give it a real-world touch of picture -- you have an uncle that's adventurous enough to try riskign it on a venture. He fails and is forever branded as a failure. Is that logical by any standards? What about the opportunity cost if he strikes it big and got out of poverty?

It's always a two-sided coin. I'm not on anybody's side.. but I believe the bias on one side is incredible here.

**[archie]** · June 14th, 2014 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by jhnkvn

And were first-worlds always been first-world? Or did they enforce good governance and fiscal policies to get them where they are?

You're comparing it by the numbers. I'm comparing it by the essence on why human right violations happens in the first place. May pinagbago ba? Think a politician can't simply make his rival "disappear". Why do you think politics is often viewed as "dirty"? I believe I need not link out the number of politically-viewed killings here in Tsikot because we're exposed to it and yet has justice been done? Sure, we know of it.. but do the cases close or do they languish in court? Do people actually care if it doesn't concern them in reality?

O god... Of course meron violators of human rights. If wala, bakit pa may human rights committee.

Mabagal justice, justice is for the rich, justice can be paid? Do you think may justice dati for all the killings? Moving to a better direction is what is happening now. There's a chance of justice now, dati, damputin parents mo with no arrest warrant and never see them again. What choice do you have?

Of course numbers will tell facts than" essence". That is purely subjective.

**ClaNker** · June 14th, 2014 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by jhnkvn

Take note that I don't take Marcos as a saint nor do I highly revere him. I did not refute the human right killings under his regime nor did I say that his policies are automatically wrong. It was a chance he took and lost the bet. But I'd rather have leaders that tries to shake up the country, take the risk, and do rather than leaders who says national apologies or leaders who were convicted of plunder and running again in the country.

As an entrepreneur, I like risk. Because not taking action - not taking risk is the same as ineptitude. Without decisions, there's no progress. Give it a real-world touch of picture -- you have an uncle that's adventurous enough to try riskign it on a venture. He fails and is forever branded as a failure. Is that logical by any standards? What about the opportunity cost if he strikes it big and got out of poverty?

It's always a two-sided coin. I'm not on anybody's side.. but I believe the bias on one side is incredible here.

Check why he took those chance and the things he did to get it. Was it for the best of the country? You're really out of touch.

**funkeemunkee** · June 14th, 2014 01:40 PM

PHL was definitely better off post-Makoy. You don't even have to look at the numbers. Little knowledge is dangerous.

**jhnkvn** · June 14th, 2014 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by ClaNker

Check why he took those chance and the things he did to get it. Was it for the best of the country? You're really out of touch.

Before governments rise, there's always vision. Why do you think the US won the Cold War? Why is Mao Zedong's socialist views so ingrained on the Communist Party?

The grass is only greener once you're reaping the benefits.

It was not the best for the country. His policies weren't the best after all. But which of the Presidents after him were any better? Vision gives progress -- let's just hope it's for the better. But without a vision, where does our typical Filipino stand?

**[archie]** · June 14th, 2014 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by jhnkvn

Take note that I don't take Marcos as a saint nor do I highly revere him. I did not refute the human right killings under his regime nor did I say that his policies are automatically wrong. It was a chance he took and lost the bet. But I'd rather have leaders that tries to shake up the country, take the risk, and do rather than leaders who says national apologies or leaders who were convicted of plunder and running again in the country.

As an entrepreneur, I like risk. Because not taking action - not taking risk is the same as ineptitude. Without decisions, there's no progress. Give it a real-world touch of picture -- you have an uncle that's adventurous enough to try riskign it on a venture. He fails and is forever branded as a failure. Is that logical by any standards? What about the opportunity cost if he strikes it big and got out of poverty?

It's always a two-sided coin. I'm not on anybody's side.. but I believe the bias on one side is incredible here.

That's why I answer your points directly. To avoid this kind of reply.

You don't refute? But claim it's comparable to human rights now? Ummm... OK.

Of course bias ako against Marcos, he bought the country to its knees for personal gain.

In your mind, you think infrastructure was a gamble. Really? It was a way to get debts and have his unlimited kick backs. As what niky said, what ROI?

**[archie]** · June 14th, 2014 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by jhnkvn

It was not the best for the country. His policies weren't the best after all. But which of the Presidents after him were any better? Vision gives progress -- let's just hope it's for the better. But without a vision, where does our typical Filipino stand?

How can you compare presidents with his regime? It's limited to 6 years. That's why you have to compare via time line. Even with all the wrong doings of presidents after, it still can't compare to the devastating effects of his regime.

**jhnkvn** · June 14th, 2014 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by [archie]

O god... Of course meron violators of human rights. If wala, bakit pa may human rights committee.

Mabagal justice, justice is for the rich, justice can be paid? Do you think may justice dati for all the killings? Moving to a better direction is what is happening now. There's a chance of justice now, dati, damputin parents mo with no arrest warrant and never see them again. What choice do you have?

Of course numbers will tell facts than" essence". That is purely subjective.

You talk about justice and yet.. justice denied is no justice at all. Chance of justice works theoretically but when did you see a poor farmer win against a person with wealth and political connections?

Numbers are numbers -- how accurate are they? Essence is subjective? Mightily so. But look around you.. is the Philippines safer now compared to before? Try walking around the slums with an iPhone and other wealth-displaying items at hand. Safety during the Marcos era was selective -- depends on which side you are actually. And that still continues until today down to our micro- barangay levels where we have X candidate died and police are now looking at it as a politically-motivated killing. Is there much change? I daresay not. Unless the underlying fundamentals are changed, human right violations are here to stay and saying that the number is less doesn't change that it's done with impunity as it has been at the past.

**jhnkvn** · June 14th, 2014 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by [archie]

How can you compare presidents with his regime? It's limited to 6 years. That's why you have to compare via time line. Even with all the wrong doings of presidents after, it still can't compare to the devastating effects of his regime.

Limited to 6 years. Okay. What about continuing the previous administration's policies? If the governing policy is good then it makes sense to simply continue it. How come after 20+ years after the People Power's rally.. we're still suffering from a persistent power outage? Look at our LRT and how many people ride in and out of that. They can't even make a fiscally sound directive to spur investment towards it. Look at NAIA and the state of it. No airconditioning? No problem. No need for heads to roll.

Fact is our successive Presidents try to take credit of the benefit of the predecessor while lambasting their policies as better than the previous by undoing progress due to "corruption". It's always corrupt.. but damn it.. somebody rehabilitate that nuke plant which we are still using taxpayers for maintenance and use it to produce an economic benefit. That provides 2.5x the power of Angat Dam while still being cheaper and cleaner than coal plants.