Stop Pinoy Migration!

**Jun aka Pekto** · April 26th, 2008 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by 4JGtootsie

Why do people think that you simply pick your money from trees? Which I know you dont.
People like Hitler, Emperor Hirohito and Magsaysay can mobilize a great majority of people towards a goal and even dying (war) to achieve it. If someone can do that then what can he not do? What if you have a charismatic leader who knows how to do the job?

You don't think I pick my money from trees. Maybe you can talk to my relatives. It's always gimmee, gimmee, gimmee.

I didn't say all charismatic leaders are bad. But, if you look at the track record throughout history, most charismatic leaders tended to become despots/dictators. They all had noble ambitions until the system corrupted them. I suppose it's a matter of tastes. Me, I prefer a resume showing past accomplishments over charisma anytime.

Statements like "I've been to the absolute poorest section of town and guess what? The streets are clean and orderly, every house has the familiar blue and green trash bins, graffiti is at a minimum. Of course, there are more cops patrolling there than other parts of town." makes me pack my bags ride a plane and live in that town.

I've been to other states and have seen other depressed areas. There's trash everywhere, graffiti, a sense of lawlessness. I would not want to be caught in there after dark. It's plain to see the local government has given up on them. To me, that's unacceptable. I'm certain a feeling of apathy, not unlike that in the Philippines, also exists. Again, just to show you it's not all sunshine and daisies here.

But, there are also places which showed so much improvement. Take Miami, FL for example. Back in the early 90's, that city was so dangerous, esp to tourists. While I was visiting, there were reports of European tourists shot to death at a Rest Area. A black motorist was killed and robbed by a gang of street toughs while waiting at a stop light. Someone was murdered and his body stowed in a waterbed. You couldn't pay me enough to take my family there.

Since then, Miami has improved so much. I've changed my mind about the place and Florida in general.

**4JGtootsie** · April 26th, 2008 06:38 AM

I understand.

I hope brother Mike doesent do an Eddie V come 2010.

**jpdm** · April 26th, 2008 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by KBR

madali lang intindihin to.. for example:

OFW = majority ay skilled workers, malamang hindi lahat ay nag-tapos ng College. karamihan, laborers, construction workers, care-givers, etc..

Immigrant = majority ay skilled workers din (nagka work experience sa Pilipinas) at nag tapos ng College at may degree (graduate ng UP, UST, etc..). usually mga nag trabaho sa Bangko, Lawyers, Nurses, Doctors, etc..

now, kung ikaw ba naman, papayag ka ba na sa Mc Do or sa Shoemart ka mag tatrabaho kahit na College graduate ka?? sa hirap ng buhay sa Pilipinas mula nung early '90s, tingin mo mag sesettle ka nalang sa isang low paying job??

OR, gagamitin mo ang utak mo and the advantage na College graduate ka at maghanap ng trabaho sa ibang bansa para may maipapakain ka sa pamilya mo.

pero nasa tao na iyon, may choice ka naman maging OFW or maging Immigrant. depende nalang talaga sa situation at sa level ng education mo yan eh.

also, tungkol sa mga Immigrants.. you cannot blame us kung bakit kami umalis ng Pilipinas. may mga Immigrant naman (like me) na maganda din ang buhay sa Pilipinas, na nag aaral sa Private school, naka tira sa isang magandang Subdivision (sa Ayala Alabang & BF Homes, Paranaque ako lumaki at tumira dati) at maganda ang trabaho ng nanay ko (she's in the Banking Industry sa Pilipinas ever since the late '70s and also worked at the fukken Palace.. alam niyo yun, yung pugad ng mga aswang..lalo na ngayon!)

pero, since na single parent ang nanay ko at 4 kaming magkapatid nuong araw (kupal kasi ang ama namin, sorry pero doon naging mahirap ang buhay namin.. coz the LACK OF A FATHER). kinailangan niyang mag hanap pa ng ibang opportunity sa labas ng bansa. and she did, she got a job at a bank in New York (forgot the name of the Bank) and they sent her to school and she got another Degree and after a few years, she moved in California and went to school in UC Berkeley and graduated w/ another damn Degree (I dont know what kind of a Degree..maybe in Financing, Banking, etc..) and oh, BTW.. my mom was a graduate, Suma Cum laude .. of the University Of the Philippines.. in Diliman.

so yeah, so my mom was successful here and she re-married to an American (single kasi siya diba!) and not just an American who was a bum, he was an Engineer and was a retired US Navy officer. so may pinag aralan din ang napangasawa ng nanay ko.. so then, pinetition kami dahil alam niya at naintindihan ni puti ang situation namin.

now eto ang tanong ko, naintindihan ba ng gobyerno ng Pilipinas ang situation ng mga mamayanang Pilipino sa atin?? or inintindi lang ng mga Politiko sa atin ang Image nila??

hindi niyo talaga ma be-blame ang mga taong nag Immigrate sa ibang bansa dahil kina-ilangan nilang umalis para sa kapakanan ng PAMILYA nila.

marami akong mga kilala dito na dating Doctor, Nurse, Business owners and even a fukken Mayor (sa isang province) sa Pilipinas na nag migrate dito sa America for some understandable reasons.

blame the government and the way they "govern" our country, not the people who is obviously suffering.

sorry for the rant folks.

aite, peace.

Sir, naliwanagan ako na.....

Na kabilang kayo sa upper middle class or yung galing sa high income group. Taga-ayala alabang,mayaman, may pinag-aralan at matalino.

Tungkol sa low-paying job, tanong ko lang ho, ano ba ang definition nyo ng low paying job? Di ho ba depende sa standard/ cost of living ng isang bansa o individual ang basis kung low yung salary o hindi (nominal and real wage)?

Ngayon po kasi, GDP per PPP na po ginagamit hindi na GDP per capita ang measurement.

Ikalawa po, tanong po sir, masama (hindi ginagamit ang utak)ho ba talaga sa isang college graduate na mag-trabaho sa McDO o Shoemart? Paano po kung admin postion po yung available?

Sa inyong bansa ang Amerika, yun ho bang mga McDo dyan e walang empleyado na college grad at puro high school grad lang po?

Kasi po ang dating sa akin kung college grad ka, wag ka sa fastfood o shopping mall....So dapat ho wag magtrabaho sa walmart o sa burger king o Mcdo ang mga college grad sa Amerika kasi mahina kita.

Last po sir, sa totoo lang hanga na sana ako sa mga kwento mo sa mga achievements nyo--ang tindi background nyo. Pero nung tinawag mong K**** tatay mo(bakit di na-censor ng moderator itong word na ito), nawala pagkabilib ko sa iyo.

Peace.

**mbeige** · April 26th, 2008 08:53 AM

There is such a thing as overqualification for a particular job. If you're a college graduate, surely you're overqualified for the simple job of cashiering at the local fast food joint. Some companies will not accept you, I think most will not. The reason behind this, is simple. You can't take up the job that somebody who has less qualifications can achieve, because you're taking up his space wherein you could get your own better-paying job with the qualifications you have.

Bro, his father probably did something for him to call his father that. I'd respect his opinion about it and not let it affect his credibility.

There are two kinds of college graduates. First are those who have the money to pay for tuition throughout college, and there are those who are on scholarships. Of course those with scholarships usually come from low income families so they slug it out and use their intelligence to get by even if they don't have enough money yet. There are all sorts of financial aids to support these students through their college life. Of couse coming from a low-income family, you'd strive to get into a better position not just clerical work at your local McDo or your local mall stores, but get into the higher positions of companies, primarily because you have the capacity to do so. Bakit ka magtatrabaho sa low income jobs if you're already a graduate, and have the potential to earn more? I don't get your logic here. The reason you go to college, at least here, is so you can have better financial stability. Pag high school grad ka lang, you can still get jobs, but those are usually temporary ones, and not the kind you'd want to stay in for long. There are some high school level jobs that pay good money though, but require lots of specific skills to do so. Student jobs are another thing too, they're almost always minimum wage and you cannot work for more than 20 hours a week, because it's supposed to be part time work (above that it becomes full time).

A low paying job is one that's near the minimum wage salary per hour. Maybe for others their perception of a low paying job is still much higher than others, but maybe those individuals don't realize their worth.

I hop that clears things up.

**jpdm** · April 26th, 2008 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by mbeige

There is such a thing as overqualification for a particular job. If you're a college graduate, surely you're overqualified for the simple job of cashiering at the local fast food joint.

Are you sure about this? Anyway, I mentioned management position, perhaps a store manager. So a newly college grad is overqualified in a fastfood ? Siguro kung service crew. Because college undergrads are allowed to work in these fast food chain.

Some companies will not accept you, I think most will not. The reason behind this, is simple. You can't take up the job that somebody who has less qualifications can achieve, because you're taking up his space wherein you could get your own better-paying job with the qualifications you have.

Is this the rule of thumb, the standard, the trend? How about the phenomenon of the underemployed? Was it really by choice of jobseekers or was it forced to them by circumstances created by the structure of the economy?

Bro, his father probably did something for him to call his father that. I'd respect his opinion about it and not let it affect his credibility.

Bro, im not questioning his background or credibility. Im referring (di na ako bilib) to my own perception of him besides his accomplishment.....

Anyway, style nya yun. Its his call.

But Im bothered about the term he used in a public forum..

tanong lang po sir mbeige, Hindi ba dapat censored (deregatory term for males)yung word? puwede na palang gamitin yun word dito ng hindi mabibigyan ng penalty ng mods..

There are two kinds of college graduates. First are those who have the money to pay for tuition throughout college, and there are those who are on scholarships. Of course those with scholarships usually come from low income families so they slug it out and use their intelligence to get by even if they don't have enough money yet. There are all sorts of financial aids to support these students through their college life. Of couse coming from a low-income family, you'd strive to get into a better position not just clerical work at your local McDo or your local mall stores, but get into the higher positions of companies, primarily because you have the capacity to do so.

Alright.....its a known fact....everybody knows this....

Bakit ka magtatrabaho sa low income jobs if you're already a graduate, and have the potential to earn more? I don't get your logic here. The reason you go to college, at least here, is so you can have better financial stability.

What if these are the only available jobs here. Can you just immediate apply for a work abroad after graduation and land in a high paying job?
In the thread deskilling of graduates..when our economy was transformed by this jackass philippine government into a service oriented one, very few high-paying value added manufacturing jobs are available here because of wanton importation of goods and wrong macro-micro policies..

Its logical to accept any available job if there is no yet a better option. Of course the rationale behind going to college is to have better financial stability. In a not so ideal situation like here in the Philippines ( rumored in the USA also) paano nga kung limitado options mo at low-paying job ang available?

Pag high school grad ka lang, you can still get jobs, but those are usually temporary ones, and not the kind you'd want to stay in for long. There are some high school level jobs that pay good money though, but require lots of specific skills to do so.

Yes and no.

Pag mahirap ka at walang koneksyon, yung nga mangyayari sa yo. although meron din naman sinusuwerte, lalo yung matiyaga, masinop at masipag...pero kung mayaman ka at artista o anak ng politiko, di na kailangang magtrabaho o mag-apply ng trabaho. Mag-artista ka nalang, hingi na lang ng pang-negosyo o mana sa magulang.

Pero karamihan pag high-school grad ka mahirap maghanap ng trabaho lalo sa agricultural country like the Philippines. Sa mga industrialized, high school grad ok na may mga technical or manual jobs naman available e.. Pero sa PInas even a college grad for that matter in a limping economy like ours mahirap maghanap.

Sa abroad, ganun din...lalo foreigner ka. Hindi lahat ng OFW at immigrant na college grad ay instantaneous na may high paying at quality jobs sa ibang bansa tulad sa US.Dami ko kakilala naging underemployed nung nag-immigrate sa US, Canada, Australia at UK.

A low paying job is one that's near the minimum wage salary per hour. Maybe for others their perception of a low paying job is still much higher than others, but maybe those individuals don't realize their worth.

Maybe.

Pero FYI, walang minimum wage per hour per se sa Pinas. Minimum daily or monthly wage meron. yung per hora, sa mga prof sa college, fastfood part-timers o working students ata applied yun.

Relative naman kung high-paying and low-paying although although may set na absolute figure or threshold e.

Anyway, it also have something to do with again with your standard of living. For instance kung taga Ayala-Alabang ka, bakit ka mag-a-apply sa McDo? Pero kung galing ka sa depressed areas, at pumipila sa NFA rice pamilya mo, kung store manager ka at cashier sa Mcdo o Jollibee earning 18,000-20,000 pesos, it means alot to a below poverty family..

So unfair yung those individuals dont realize their worth.

**CVT** · April 26th, 2008 01:46 PM

Bro. jpdm,- we both don't know what he's gone through. Remember that he was an innocent victim of his parents' separation and he only had his dearest Mom to hold on to... Kindly consider this, please. Thanks.

5909:burn:

**hominid** · April 26th, 2008 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by uls

iba naman ang pinoy sa Thailanders or Taiwanese or Malaysians na mahal ang bansa nila.

Dont expect pinoys to stay here to help the country.

Pinoys are family first.

Di pala family first. Family only. Walang second, walang third. Family lang.

Who cares about the country?

The hell with the country.

hehe

...be all, end all.

**mbeige** · April 26th, 2008 05:15 PM

Are you sure about this? Anyway, I mentioned management position, perhaps a store manager. So a newly college grad is overqualified in a fastfood ? Siguro kung service crew. Because college undergrads are allowed to work in these fast food chain.

Management position in a store here isn't really that much, a high school graduate with lots of sales experience can work his way up to being a manager of a store. On the other hand, a specialty store that deals with expensive products can probably require technical knowhow that only a select few individuals can surpass. A fresh college graduate is definitely overqualified for that kind of job. Like I said some employers can accept them but as far as I know and from what I've heard, most will not.

Is this the rule of thumb, the standard, the trend? How about the phenomenon of the underemployed? Was it really by choice of jobseekers or was it forced to them by circumstances created by the structure of the economy?

Honestly I don't know if it's the standard or trend, I haven't worked in a sales position for a while and never bothered to ask. For me it was a temporary job to fund my college life, and on my last two years of school I had student work then doubled up in a store as a sales associate.

What is the phenomenon of the underemployed?

I guess you could say it was partly their choice, because sales positions are easy so you don't get paid a lot since the key is to balance the amount of individuals with the amount of money they earn. If you get paid a lot, you should be able to do most of the work that others can't to justify it, otherwise if you can't do that then it just levels off. That's just how I understand it anyway.

tanong lang po sir mbeige, Hindi ba dapat censored (deregatory term for males)yung word? puwede na palang gamitin yun word dito ng hindi mabibigyan ng penalty ng mods..

Maybe that's a question best left to our moderators, I don't know the answer to that.

What if these are the only available jobs here. Can you just immediate apply for a work abroad after graduation and land in a high paying job?
In the thread deskilling of graduates..when our economy was transformed by this jackass philippine government into a service oriented one, very few high-paying value added manufacturing jobs are available here because of wanton importation of goods and wrong macro-micro policies..

With regards to finding immediate work, I guess that depends on your overall achievement, connections (yes, that also works here), motivation to find work, finding the right job applications, and having a bit of luck, too. You're right on the importation of goods instead of the development of R&D jobs, I've been reading on that too and it's sad to see the state of affairs of the current market. Although there exists R&D jobs, they're mostly highly specialized but don't always receive the proper funding so the individuals must shoulder the costs if they want to succeed in it, as far as I've heard anyway.

Its logical to accept any available job if there is no yet a better option. Of course the rationale behind going to college is to have better financial stability. In a not so ideal situation like here in the Philippines ( rumored in the USA also) paano nga kung limitado options mo at low-paying job ang available?

True, if you're just looking for a temporary job to start off your career then by all means, go ahead. However, people aren't always the same. Some will want to start looking for work that they will stay in for some time and want some sort of permanency in their livelihood. So those individuals will not immediately look for the next job available but go window shopping first and see what's what. If your options are low, you can choose to do three things: get back in school and earn a higher degree (MS, PhD, etc) or just slug it out with whatever work you deem as "pwede na". The last one, which is obvious, is to seek work abroad. The first option *should* provide better chances once you get out of your higher degree, however if you're itching to start working already this might make you think twice. It really depends on your priorities I guess. The second option is to find work in, for example, call centers, or any kind of work that usually deals with quick money. I'm not familiar with what's available out there so I'm just explaining my side based on what I've seen. Finally the last option is to get out, which is what seems to be the majority's vote here is I guess. It's really not just about money though like I kept repeating although that counts as a huge factor, I'll admit that.

Pag mahirap ka at walang koneksyon, yung nga mangyayari sa yo. although meron din naman sinusuwerte, lalo yung matiyaga, masinop at masipag...pero kung mayaman ka at artista o anak ng politiko, di na kailangang magtrabaho o mag-apply ng trabaho. Mag-artista ka nalang, hingi na lang ng pang-negosyo o mana sa magulang.

That's the sad state of affairs, most go into showbiz. I'll state an example. Ryan Yllana, the brother of Anjo, was our neighbor and my schoolmate in Ateneo. I was surprised to see him on TV doing those Mongolian BBQ style shows, I never thought he'd follow the footsteps of his brother. My personal opinion of him is that I wish he found a path that gave him a better sense of achievement. Well, maybe that's what he really wanted, I really don't know. Personal opinion ko lang, like I said.

Pero karamihan pag high-school grad ka mahirap maghanap ng trabaho lalo sa agricultural country like the Philippines. Sa mga industrialized, high school grad ok na may mga technical or manual jobs naman available e.. Pero sa PInas even a college grad for that matter in a limping economy like ours mahirap maghanap.

Very true. That's why I completely understand the de-skilling-of-graduates thread, and I wish more research and development kinds of jobs would emerge to provide a better learning curve for individuals and not just make it a complete money-making livelihood. What I mean is, personally, I'd rather find a job wherein you learn something in the process and not just do something. Back there, call centers pop up everywhere. While they offer training sessions at the beginning - background, history, ethics, what to do, etc - and even if you learn while working, it's not the discovery type of learning but more on experience. Or maybe that's just my idiosyncrasy when it comes to finding work.

Sa abroad, ganun din...lalo foreigner ka. Hindi lahat ng OFW at immigrant na college grad ay instantaneous na may high paying at quality jobs sa ibang bansa tulad sa US.Dami ko kakilala naging underemployed nung nag-immigrate sa US, Canada, Australia at UK.

When I took Asian American Studies, it was shown that most of the time, Caucasians get most of the higher positions while Asians, Pacific Islanders, Hispanics and African-Americans tend to get lower positions. But in school, most of the Asians and Pacific Islanders (API) excel, even more than Caucasians. We discussed it in detail and it seems to me that there is still some sort of background discrimination that lies among the workplace, and that API's tend to get stuck by the glass ceiling. This glass ceiling is like a barrier that hinders you from reaching higher positions on your career ladder, hence the figure of speech as a ceiling you can't see but it just stops you from earning better positions.

Pero FYI, walang minimum wage per hour per se sa Pinas. Minimum daily or monthly wage meron. yung per hora, sa mga prof sa college, fastfood part-timers o working students ata applied yun.

I know it's a daily minimum wage, which is really saddening. When I asked somebody to do something for me I always tip them generously, I feel I'm depriving them so much if I simply go with minimum wage.

Relative naman kung high-paying and low-paying although although may set na absolute figure or threshold e.

Continued...

**mbeige** · April 26th, 2008 05:15 PM

Anyway, it also have something to do with again with your standard of living. For instance kung taga Ayala-Alabang ka, bakit ka mag-a-apply sa McDo? Pero kung galing ka sa depressed areas, at pumipila sa NFA rice pamilya mo, kung store manager ka at cashier sa Mcdo o Jollibee earning 18,000-20,000 pesos, it means alot to a below poverty family..

Not really, well at least from my experience. Maybe there, image is everything, but here they admire you if you have work at all.

The problem is, if you find work, they'll squeeze as much as they can out of you to make the most out of your salary, even bending or breaking the rules to get something done. These things I mention are not the petty stuff like doing favors but more of the working overtime but not getting paid type. Eventually people will realize that if you know your worth, you will demand more, and if the employers can't provide that, then it's time to move on. There are some who move on but don't leave the country, which is highly admirable, really. But there are some who can't stand it anymore, and get out the soonest they can.

But work isn't everything, like I said. Granted, if you find work here in the US that's comparable to the work you have or had back there, I'd like to know one thing. Do you live with peace of mind?

Take a simple walk with your iPod in your ears while you listen to tunes. Here, it's doable although I've heard of increased crimes against those. But nonetheless, the chances are very low. However, take the situation there and you're sure to lose your iPod the first few minutes. Another example, if you leave your car outside a store for just a few minutes, do you always lock it? Here, for countless times already, I've seen people who just park and shut off the engine with the windows down and the doors unlocked. They get back knowing that nobody will touch their car. Finally, I'll tell you a story about an apartment fire we had last year that almost got into the complex itself but fortunately was put off quickly. We called the 911, and to my surprise when I mentioned all the information about the address, nature of emergency, etc that someone already called it in. This was just minutes after the fire alarm broke out. The fire engines arrived in less than 5 minutes from the moment I made the call, and put out the flames quickly. Do you think that the same thing would have happened there?

I mean, those are just examples from my experience. I know my tax money is being spent on those if I needed emergency assistance. Back there, maybe so, but your mind will rest uneasy of the possibilities it might not happen at all.

It's not just realizing one's worth, but also getting your money's worth. The cost of living here may be higher, but the amount of worrying and anxiety you face daily are definitely lower. I mean, just driving back there is so stressful, you don't know if you'll get into an accident or not, or whether anybody knew how to drive properly at all. I mentioned that last bit since this is a car forum.

Anyway I'm sorry for the long post, I thought it might be worth answering your questions in detail. I probably share the sentiments of other, maybe not, but at least that's how I see it from my perspective.

**jpdm** · April 26th, 2008 07:19 PM

Sir mbeige,

we might disagree on some points but Im very appreciative for a very informative and sensible posts (although mas mahaba keysa sa akin..hehehe..) you made.

I would love to exchange more ideas with you.

Keep it coming sir!

By the way, I think we both agree that we need more R&D here. Because this is crucial for the development of a strong industrial base that:

can replace as many imports as possible;

increase more exports;

more manufacturing value added high paying companies (steel, petrochemical, machinery, electronics, computer parts, automotive);

more allied or related industries;

more investments; and

more quality and good paying employment for may Pinoy grads