Angelo dela Cruz (Merged threads)

[boydapa]

paano kaya kung si yebo yun hostage
edi yari na mukha ata walang tutulong....

[ajb0613]

join ako sa discussion :-)

Sabihin ko lang, ako proud to be Pinoy, nakaka desisyon na para sa sariliing interest ( kung ano man yun :-) ).

Palagay ko medyo nakakahiya mga Kano at gobyerno nila, parang high school bully eh, ini-ignore nila UN, occupied/bombed Iraq dahil meron daw WMD, eh wala naman. So, either kasinungalingan yun para sa kanilang interes or palpak sila magtrabaho. Tapos ngayon i-bully tayo dahil sa pull-out. Tignan natin kung parusahan si Bush ng mga Kano sa election nila, or tuloy ang "kahihiyan" nila. ;-)

[boydapa]

ako rin basta ang importante desisyon natin yun at wala tayong pakialam kung magalit ang america o hindi.

sumoporta ang malaysia sa decision natin. sana dumami pa ang mag lakas ng loob...

malamang naiconsider din nila arroyo yan re election ni bush mukha kasing paalis na sya for good dahil sa mga kapalpakan nya. grabe dahil sa kanya umabot sa 25 gas natin

[roninblade]

finally, how can you speak of "putting yourself in the shoes of the Iraqis?" how do you know the true sentiment of the Iraqi people? what we know of Iraq we mostly got from American media... and that is worth a very long thought. American media serves America first and the Iraqis last.

then dont tell me that you understand what these so called freedom fighters are fighting for because we can never know. not unless we talk to them face to face.

my words may have been misworded, or i didnt explain myself clear enough. im not saying "what if the us puts its sight on yet another country". im talking about what has already happened not what is going to happen or what could've happened. and im not telling you to guess what the iraqis are feeling. im telling you to put _yourself_ in their shoes and decide what _you_ would feel like. that's what i did, and that's what im asking you to see.

that is why America should never have gone to Iraq. that is why the Philippines should never have gone to Iraq.

this is already a moot point since the line has already been crossed. although i agree that it is never a good reason to invade another country on the pretense of helping them in an internal problem.

[Wouie]

Sa mga opinyon nyo na nabasa ko, ako ay sumasang-ayon kay yebo. Bakit nga ba hinostage si Angelo?

Ang mga taong sinasabi nyong mga terorista ay mga mamamayang Iraqi na sumusuporta o mga dating tauhan ng dati nilang president na si Saddam. Sila ay mga Muslim na galit sa mga Amerikano at may matindi silang dahilan kung bakit. Sa totoo lang hindi man lahat pero 8 out of 10 na mga Muslim ay galit sa mga Amerikano at yan ang katotohanan. So lahat ng papanig sa America ay kaaway na rin nila. Kaya nga nanghohostage sila ng mga mamamayan ng sinumang bansang may mga sundalo roon bilang kapalit ng pagpapauwi sa mga sundalo nila. Kaya naman pag nagmatigas ang isang bansa, patay ang hostage.

Sa pagpapauwi ng Pilipinas sa mga sundalo nila, hindi lang si Angelo ang maliligtas rito (na karamihan sa inyo ay syang iniisip). Bakit lagi nyong sinasabing "bakit kailangan nating mag pull out kapalit lang ng buhay ng isang hamak na Pilipino" hindi nyo ba alam na buhay ng lahat ng mga OFW na nasa middle east ang nakataya rito. Ang pag pull out natin ay di nangangahulugan ng pagsuko natin sa mga militante kundi sa pagpapahalaga sa buhay ng bawat OFW doon. Ano ba ang kabutihan sa ating bansa kung mananatili ang mga forces natin doon? Magulo ang Iraq dahil may mga bansang nakikialam at nagpapagulo. So pabayaan na lang natin silang magpatayan ng mga Amerikano.

Ngayon, kung wala na roon ang mga sundalong Pilipino sa palagay ba nyo'y hohostage pa sila ng isang Angelo kapalit naman ng pagpullout ng mga Amerikano? Di ba hindi, sa halip maaaring isa na namang Amerikano. Kung titigil naman tayo roon baka marami pang OFW ang susunod. Hindi mga Pilipino ang kaaway ng mga militanteng ito kundi mga Amerikano so bakit kailangan nating magsakrepisyo.

Kaguluhan muna sa bansa ang dapat isaayos bago pumasok ng panibagong gulo.

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by Wouie
Kaguluhan muna sa bansa ang dapat isaayos bago pumasok ng panibagong gulo.

America, South Korea, Bulgaria, Poland and the other countries that form part of the humanitarian contingent also has their own problems. the problem with that thinking is that we are being too selfish to see the other problems countries have. right now, Iraq is on the edge - wouldn't you want to do something to help? even if it means that we have just a token force (which hardly contributes anything realistically) it just just for moral and psychological support.

if that was the thinking of the Americans during World War II, the whole of South East Asia would already be speaking Niponggo now and mainland Europe would still be flying the colors of Germany.

if China invades Spratly islands right now - to whom would we running to? I'll give you one guess.

by the way, pardon if I answered your Filipino comment in English - am just more comfortable writing in English.

[mbt]

but why support an unjust war? that is the essential question. it is greed that sent that token force over there -- in the hope that America will give the Philippines juicy, but tainted, spoils of war -- and not a desire to help Iraqis.

Iraq is on the edge, true. but it is because of Bush's war that precisely it is on edge. we have no business in Iraq.

and again, the situation of World War 2 was very different and is hardly an adequate parallel. did Iraq threaten to dominate half the world in 2003? The answer is no.

[mazdamazda]

unjust? just read below on the summary of the atrocities committed against the Iraqi people... Marcos looks lame when compared to him!!!

==============

Fact Sheet
Office of the White House Press Secretary
Washington, DC
April 4, 2003


Life Under Saddam Hussein: Past Repression and Atrocities by Saddam Hussein's Regime


For over 20 years, the greatest threat to Iraqis has been Saddam Hussein's regime -- he has killed, tortured, raped, and terrorized the Iraqi people and his neighbors for over two decades.

When Iraq is free, past crimes against humanity and war crimes committed against Iraqis, will be accounted for, in a post-conflict Iraqi-led process. The United States, members of the coalition, and the international community will work with the Iraqi people to build a strong and credible judicial process to address these abuses.

Under Saddam's regime many hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of his actions, the vast majority of them Muslims. According to a 2001 Amnesty International report, "victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings, and electric shocks ... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

Saddam has had approximately 40 of his own relatives murdered. Allegations of prostitution are used to intimidate opponents of the regime and have been used by the regime to justify the barbaric beheading of women. There have been documented chemical attacks by the regime, from 1983 to 1988, resulting in some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.

Human Rights Watch estimates that Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds. The Iraqi regime used chemical agents to include mustard gas and nerve agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages between 1987-1988. The largest was the attack on Halabja which resulted in approximately 5,000 deaths. o 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

Iraq's 13 million Shi'a Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, face severe restrictions on their religious practice, including a ban on communal Friday prayer, and restriction on funeral processions.

According to Human Rights Watch, "senior Arab diplomats told the London-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat in October [1991] that Iraqi leaders were privately acknowledging that 250,000 people were killed during the uprisings, with most of the casualties in the south." Refugees International reports that

"Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis, primarily Kurds who have fled to the north to escape Saddam Hussein's Arabization campaigns (which involve forcing Kurds to renounce their Kurdish identity or lose their property) and Marsh Arabs, who fled the government's campaign to dry up the southern marshes for agricultural use. More than 200,000 Iraqis continue to live as refugees in Iran."

In 2002, the U.S. Committee for Refugees estimated that nearly 100,000 Kurds, Assyrians, and Turkomans had previously been expelled, by the regime, from the "central-government-controlled Kirkuk and surrounding districts in the oil-rich region bordering the Kurdish controlled north."

"Over the past five years, 400,000 Iraqi children under the age of five died of malnutrition and disease, preventively, but died because of the nature of the regime under which they are living." (Prime Minister Tony Blair, March 27, 2003) Under the oil-for-food program, the international community sought to make available to the Iraqi people adequate supplies of food and medicine, but the regime blocked sufficient access for international workers to ensure proper distribution of these supplies. Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition forces have discovered military warehouses filled with food supplies meant for the Iraqi people that had been diverted by Iraqi military forces.

The Iraqi regime has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors. From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the UN Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq. The UN Special Rapporteur's September 2001, report criticized the regime for "the sheer number of executions," the number of "extrajudicial executions on political grounds," and "the absence of a due process of the law."

Saddam Hussein's regime has carried out frequent summary executions, including:

4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in 1984;
3,000 prisoners at the Mahjar prison from 1993-1998;
2,500 prisoners were executed between 1997-1999 in a "prison cleansing campaign;"
122 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/March 2000;
23 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in October 2001; and
At least 130 Iraqi women were beheaded between June 2000 and April 2001.

[Sleeper]

Found this on the net:



:D

[mbt]

perhaps, but i don't see how that gives the US the right to play cop. the UN fits that role more properly.

Marcos was a tyrant as well, but he was coddled by the Americans. why the double standard then?

oh well, i suppose we agree to disagree hehehe