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  1. Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,319
    #151
    mahirap talaga ang situation na to, kahit anong side ang kunin, siguradong may dire consequences... and choosing the lesser evil isn't easy since judging the lesser evil has a lot to do with each one's perceptions and priorities...

    my take:

    1. pulling out at this time - timing really sucks! sayang... even if we can argue na we pulled out not because of the terrorists demand, there will always be the perception that we did it because of the terrorists demands...

    2. all the featured interviews regarding OFWs choosing to risk life and limb to work overseas rather than seeing their family starve to death is oh so noble... but when sh*t hits the fan (like what's happening now), the first thing that comes to mind is to bring him home... at least for this case we can bring him home... but what about the other OFWs in other countries who are facing life - threatening conditions? may pondo ba ang Pilipinas para ibalik silang lahat? at kung maibalik ba sila, mananatili ba sila dito? i guess not... wala ngang trabaho dito.. kaya sooner or later, babalik uli sa abroad...

    3. the comment regarding the local militants is also right on! it's true that the current system we have sucks... but expressing their sentiments against each and every issue isn't enough.. all those expressions of indignation is worth nothing if they don't provide alternatives and make those alternatives work! puro dakdak lang .. pero wala naman silang binibigay na solution... puro pagpapabango sa mga sectors na kanilang "nire represent".. para saan? for them to be in power.. look at how many seats they have now via partylist...

    4. local media coverage - again.. they prefer to do it closer to the hearts of the filipino public.. the very passionate and emotional theme... i'm not saying na huwag i feature yung emotional side (the family left here, etc).. but at least naman, give equal time to the other effects... our standing on the international community, the possible effects in our economy... the media is a good vehicle for education... sana wag laging i sensationalize ang issues... educate the masses... lumalala man ang educational system natin.. at least sana naman makatulong ang media natin para tumalino ang pilipino... pero sa nangyayari... iba eh...

  2. Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    324
    #152
    mazdamazda

    So what kung maging selfish tayo, at least bayan natin ang tutulungan natin at di yong pakikialam sa iba na ni sarili nating gulo ay di natin maisaayos-ayos. Hindi mo pwedeng icompare ang America, sobrang powerful nila kaya kahit sino pinakikialaman nila. Kahit pa daang libong sundalo ang ipadala nila sa ibang bansa napapanatili nilang matahimik ang bansa nila. Isipin nyo yong mga rebeldeng kaaway ng pamahalaan, bakit napakarami pa rin nila. Nangangahulugan lang na kulang sa gawa ang ating gobyerno.

    Sa palagay nyo ba nakakatulong ang mga sundalo natin sa mga Iraqi. Nadon sila para tulungan ang America na patayin ang mga tauhan ni Saddam habang ginagamit ang dahilang "peacekeeping " ang layunin nila. Bakit di nyo tanungin ang mga Iraqi kung safe sila ngayon habang naroroon ang mga sundalo ng ibat-ibang bansa. Sabi nila mas maayos pa ang buhay nila nong panahon ni Saddam kesa ngayon. Yong mga taong nagsasaya nong mahuli si Saddam ay di mga tunay na Iraqi kundi mga dayuhang naninirahan sa Iraq.

    Pasensya na rin kung tagalog itong post ko, sawa na ako sa ingles. Ito rin ang isang bisyo ng mga Pilipino, sa pakikipag-usap nila gusto agad mag-ingles para class ang dating. Tingnan nyo ang mga politiko, sa mga meeting nila pilit ingles ang sinasalita kahit namimilipit, na kayang kaya namang sabihin sa tagalog. Mas mahaba pa ang oras na sinayang sa pagsasabi ng "eh, ah eh" sa pagitan ng bawat salita. Pag di gaanong magaling mag-ingles tinatawanan. Bakit kailangan nilang mag-ingles eh pilipino naman ang kaharap nila. Sorry kung tamaan kayo.

  3. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    10,410
    #153
    originally posted by mazdamazda:

    "if that was the thinking of the Americans during World War II, the whole of South East Asia would already be speaking Niponggo now and mainland Europe would still be flying the colors of Germany."


    nah! the americans would have gone to war with the japanese even if the japs did not bomb pearl harbor.

    the question in world war II was not whether america did us a favor by defeating japan and thus declaring us free in july 4, 1946. the question was whether america could afford an asia dominated by japan. that is why they defeated the japanese in papua new guinea, indoneisa, malaysia, thailand, burma, philippines, formosa, china, and korea. that is why they dropped the A-bomb on hiroshima and nagasaki. the americans could not afford an asia dominated NOT by them.

    besides, try not to read history the way it was written by america. they knew about pearl harbor before it happened. kating-kati na sila sumali sa gyera, they needed an excuse. same as when they needed an excuse when they allowed one of their ships to be bombed in cuba to go to war with spain and wrestle spain's colonies. to prove that the americans was eager to go to war with japan, there is a wreck in the mouth of subic bay (forgot the name of the ship) that was being readied by the americans to go to shanghai in 1941 so that the japanese can sink it. that was their first option of excuse to go to war with japan.

    but of course you will not see that in any american history book. they will never admit that they prepared that ship that is now a wreck in subic bay. they will never admit they knew about pearl harbor before it happened. history, afterall, is written by the victors.

    sabihin nyo na naman anti-american gulpihin ko na kayo! :-)


    now about talking face to face with "so-called freedom fighters", or so-called terrorists...

    until 1988 my view of arabs, and specially palestinians, was the typical Golan-Globus bad guy chuck norris was born to annihilate. but then i went to saudi arabia and lived there for a year. i worked with palestinians. sure i was scared of them on the first day. the second day not so, and they eventually became my friends. let me tell you the story of one particular guy, his name is ali hussein.

    ali hussein's family was a typical palestinian family, big, extended (parang pinoy din ano, big, extended). ali was studying to be a doctor in the UK. his whole family was also planning to emigrate, if not to the Uk then to the US. he said he was very much pro-west that time. he was married, 1 baby girl. his wife and baby lived with his parents and brothers and sisters in lebanon. one day, he told me, the israeli planes came flying over their house and dropped a bomb. his entire family was killed. he had to go home from london to bury not just one, but his entire family.

    when i met him in riyadh in 1988 they (i mean the plo) were just driven out of lebanon. they had been allowed into saudi arabia to work. ali had 3 scars made by bullet wounds in his body. he was, and he admitted it, what the world would call a terrorist. he said he had planted bombs in israel, shot israeli soldiers on patrol, even killed an israeli he chanced upon in lebanon with a knife.

    i asked him once if given the chance he would turn himself into a suicide bomber. without hesitation he answered "yes". i asked him again "so you hate the israelis so much huh?" again without hesitation he answered. but he answered in the negative. he does not hate the israeli people. he is at war with the "zionist". by that he meant israelis who believe that their land (palestine) was part of the promised land and therefore part of israel.

    hirap intindihin ano. but of course that was about palestine. and it could be very well different with iraq. or is it? could it be that those people who you now call "terrorist" lost someone when the americans bombed baghdad in 1991 or 2003?

    (maybe now also you see why i have a different opinion on those iraqi "terrorists".)


    on the war in iraq being just...

    there is one war being fought in iraq now that is justified. it is the war that the "terrorists" are waging to free their country from all foreign domination. any war of independence, no matter who the enemy is, is just.

    the americans, on the other hand, no longer believe in that war. just read the news, majority of the american people now want their troops to come home.

    and here we are debating that our troops should stay.
    Last edited by yebo; July 16th, 2004 at 09:55 PM.

  4. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    4,801
    #154
    sabihin nyo na naman anti-american gulpihin ko na kayo! :-)
    :hihihi: yari tayo dito....haha

    Originally posted by mbt
    perhaps, but i don't see how that gives the US the right to play cop. the UN fits that role more properly.

    Marcos was a tyrant as well, but he was coddled by the Americans. why the double standard then?

    oh well, i suppose we agree to disagree hehehe
    They US didnt want to play world cop. But most countries have appointed them to do so. They are a world cop, not by choice.

    If you have time to read:

    I'm not going to get into a history lesson. The short, short version is
    that the League of Nations (established after WW I to prevent wars) failed
    to stop Mussolini's Italy from invading and conquering Ethiopia. It failed
    to stop Japan from invading and conquering Manchuria and much of China.
    Their committees wrung their hands spoke in platitudes but did absolutely
    nothing to stop war.

    At France's coaxing Britain's prime minister Nevil Chamberlain met with
    Adolph Hitler in Munich and surrendered the Sudetenland to Nazi Germany in
    the interest of "peace in our time." The French and British watched as
    Germany took Austria, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia. They all had committee
    meetings and wrung their hands and talked of peace.

    World War II erupted when Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Britain had a
    mutual defense treaty with Poland so they couldn't escape. They declared
    war on Germany. Germany had a mutual defense treaty with Japan so Japan
    declared war on Britain. France wet their pants and surrendered to Germany
    as fast as they could and gleefully shipped all the Jews they could find to
    death camps in Germany to prove to Adolph that they really were on the side
    of Germany.

    Japan attacked the United States and, because of Japan's mutual defense
    treaty with Germany, Germany declared war on the United States.

    Up until December 7th and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, a large
    number of our people were wringing their hands and saying, "Appease Hitler.
    He is really a good guy who just needed a little more land for his
    expanding population. The dear man just wants peace. And World War II was
    in full swing leaving better than 50,000,000 people dead including about
    450,000 American soldiers and sailors.

    Three cheers for the League of Nations!


    After World War II it was decided to do the whole thing all over again.
    This time we would call it the United Nations and we will have committee
    meetings and hand wringing parties and make sure peace prevails throughout
    the land.

    While that august body wrung hands the Soviet Union split Germany, invaded
    Poland and Yugoslavia, Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria along with Latvia,
    Lithuania and Estonia. The peaceful world saw Korea with 37,000 American
    soldiers killed, over 1,000,000 South Korean soldiers and civilians killed
    and the country nearly destroyed.

    Since then we have had over 50,000 American soldiers killed in Vietnam and
    have fought wars in Somalia, Herzegovenia, Panama, Granada, plus the Gulf
    War when Iraq invaded Kuwait.

    We should have gone into Baghdad and taken out that evil regime then but
    the United Nations would have no part of that. All they would allow was for
    us to chase the Iraqis out of Kuwait, then peace would prevail.

    Now, here we are with Saddam violating all 17 United Nations resolutions
    while he has massed poison gas and bio weapons.

    He is frantically trying to develop a nuke and his buddy, Kim Jong-Il of
    North Korea may give him a few. (It was the United Nations who prevented us
    from taking North Korea when the war was hot and we had the means to do it.)
    Peace!!!!!!!! Sure.

    France is wetting their collective pants in fear that the United States
    will take Saddam out and along with him, France's 60 billion dollar
    contracts with Iraq. Russia hedges because Iraq owes them 6 billion dollars
    that they sorely need.

    In answer to your question....... hell yes we should go to war with Iraq.
    We should have done it six months ago. We should also get out of the United
    Nations. Can you believe that the United Nations has appointed Iraq and
    Syria to head up the United Nations Disarmament Committee? Can you believe
    they have appointed Libya to head up the Human Rights Committee?


    All three of these countries are on the UN List of Terrorist
    States..........Absolutely unbelievable.

    Just don't get me going. Throughout recorded history the only time peace
    has prevailed is when the good guys have militarily whipped the bad guys.
    Who are our best friends in the world? Japan because we whipped them.
    Germany because we whipped them. Italy because we whipped them. Britain
    because we whipped them.
    UN doesn't fit the role. How many times do we need a resolution for Saddam? 14 resolutions have to be made. But yet, he failed to comply. Why did Saddam kicked the UN Inspector from continously monitoring and inspecting their so called Nuke Power Plant for electricity use in the late 90's? Why did Saddam waited for 14 resolutions? If you have nothing to hide, why not comply?
    Last edited by Karding; July 17th, 2004 at 01:04 AM.

  5. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    4,801
    #155
    quotes from Wouie's post:

    Magulo ang Iraq dahil may mga bansang nakikialam at nagpapagulo. So pabayaan na lang natin silang magpatayan ng mga Amerikano.
    Ang ganda ng pananaw mo sa buhay kapatid. Sana pinabayaan lang din tayo nung unang panahon ng mga kano, 'no? Sana, pinabayaan na lang din ng US ang Taiwan, ang Kuwait to name a few.

    Ang pag pull out natin ay di nangangahulugan ng pagsuko natin sa mga militante kundi sa pagpapahalaga sa buhay ng bawat OFW doon.
    in denial ka pa na hindi pagsuko sa militante ang ginawa ni GMA? Sana kunin or pauwin nyo na 3,000 OFWs in Iraq kung kaligtasan ng mga Pinoy ang gusto nyo. At sana, may mapakain si GMA sa mga OFW na uuwi.

    Ang mga taong sinasabi nyong mga terorista ay mga mamamayang Iraqi na sumusuporta o mga dating tauhan ng dati nilang president na si Saddam. Sila ay mga Muslim na galit sa mga Amerikano at may matindi silang dahilan kung bakit.
    The terrorists who held Angelo as a hostage does not represent the country of Iraq. Alam mo ba ang background history ni Saddam? Nakaka bwiset ulitin pero paki-research na lang kung ano ginawa ni Saddam sa sarili nyang tao. To say that those people who have held Angelo as a hostage is NOT a TERRORIST, a pure ignorance at its fullest.

    I just hope that what GMA did will not turn the Philippines into something like CUBA. Where the US or not one country cares about their economy and well being.
    Last edited by Karding; July 17th, 2004 at 04:59 AM.

  6. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    3,147
    #156
    Lupang Hinirang, our national anthem, at one point last night, I almost sang the last line with gusto:

    ANG MAPAHIYA NANG DAHIL KAY ANGELO

    the original line is:

    ANG MAMATAY NANG DAHIL SA IYO

  7. Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    734
    #157
    grabe akala ko sa situation na ito magkakaisa na mga pilipino di pala hati pa rin---di nakakapagtaka wala tayong nararating.. pugot kng pugot, uwi kung uwi. kung magkakaroon ng pagkakataon at pupunta ako sa gera ayoko sumama sa isang bansang nangiiwan...gusto ko we go as one, we leave as one(unless magpaiwan ako).. some branches of the military have that principle/code

    napatunayan ko rin na sa kahit anung situasyon sarili ang unang iniisip ng pilipino...

  8. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    14,824
    #158
    tapos na ang debate!!! hahaha!!!

    Angelo was deposited safely in the UAE embassy there...

    Philippines, get ready to be terrorized by these kinds of empty threats again.

  9. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,829
    #159
    lumaya na pala si angelo.


    pwede na ulet pabalikin ang tropa ng pinoy siguro? hehehe... :D

  10. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    3,147
    #160
    we have a walking $6 Million Dollar Man

    or let's put it:

    $6 Million Dollar worth of SONA

Angelo dela Cruz (Merged threads)