Remote bypass oil filtration

[Fleetguard]

*dvldoc: I have forwarded your concerns to Cummins Filtration in Singapore along with the pictures. The technical department head is currently out of the country but will be back within the week. I will post their reply regarding this matter.

[Ry_Tower]

^ yes i have asked a friend in Cebu to check the company itself.

[dvldoc]

*dvldoc: I have forwarded your concerns to Cummins Filtration in Singapore along with the pictures. The technical department head is currently out of the country but will be back within the week. I will post their reply regarding this matter.

I am in the US these filters were posted by members on this forum. This has already been forwarded to Fleetguards man HQ not only in the Philippines but to Singapore and the US about a month and a half ago.


All are in plastic if your getting filters that are not sealed in plastic it's a sure bet they don't have a country of origin, the only way they are not sealed is that they have been removed from the plastic. The plastic wrap is part of the manufacturing process. I been to the plant on a tour and seen this for myself here in the States. I'm also a re-saler of Fleetguard filters here in the states, Never seen one not sealed in plastic. They are also only sold in cases not individually unless someone removes them and re-boxes them.

Here is another good example of poor quality. The LF3314 from there, (no country of origin, no plastic comes in a box, if fluted) The LF3314 does not have a fluted top.

Look at the poor filter media quality it's wavy and uneven. Look at the center tube it's not the same spiral design found in that filter, the spring is much thinner and lighter and the anti drain back valve is completely different.



Now compare that LF3314 to a LF3313 which are identical filters except for length. Notice the difference in quality.



Now look at the second Fleetguard filter look at the bypass valve set up and lack of of coil spring, that filter is the equivalent of the Baldwin BT223 but the build is of a low end filter.

Compare that to a Baldwin not even close on quality when it should be better. You can see it doesn't even half as many pleats on the filter media and it's not the cellulose material Fleetguard uses.

[crazy_boy]

dvldoc, can you post a picture of the bosch filter? its also made in korea. i want to see the filter element.

[dvldoc]

I am puzzled why these shops don't know what they are selling are not the real deal, Fleetguard had training and seminars on this very topic.

Lets look at the LF3314 again (Thanks to 12vdc) for the pics. Notice the color of the font is different, notice the filter is fluted. (that's the little dents in the top for grip) Notice the plastic only at the bottom of the filter and as always no country of origin. We have already determined the filter internals are not Fleetguard quality. The date code also does not match Fleetguards standards.

The size off the filter is also wrong it has a larger diameter and is shorter than it stated on the fleetguard site. So in this pic you got 5 real fleetguards with one fake. Should be all be real if your a official dealer.



This is a real LF3314 I got 2 cases I am looking right at.


Notice a common theme with all these filters on my table. You will not find a real one not fully sealed in plastic it's a Fleetguard requirement. It's to keep contaminates out of the filter.



* Crazyboy here is a Bosch korea filter, They are good quality as long as you get a real one.

[dvldoc]

Here is a few more examples,

Fake LF5159 on the right


These are real ones LF5159 are not painted white they come in a stainless steel finish only. Things like this could verified by a dealer with a simple phone call.

Older style


Newer Fluted model.. Also note the fake has 6 holes in the base while the real has 8 holes so now your talking about fuel starvation issues with your engine using this low quality fake. Again I am sure everyone would like the explanation of the glaring difference in the filters and the below sub par filter internals. The only truth is it's not a real fleetguard.



On China Fleetguards, reals one have Chinese writing on them. I don't speak it or read it but I'm pretty shure it has the country of origin on it. The ones marketed to other countries will have English.



And you will know they are real from the case they come in as well.

This is the Plant in China.

Shanghai Fleetguard Filter Co., Ltd

[crazy_boy]

dvldoc, it says "Shanghai Fleetguard".


as regarding to Bosch Korea filters, the ones I got isn't the premium line.

the ones i got looks like this. except that this is made in malaysia.



or this.

[dvldoc]

Sorry don't have anything on the Bosch Engineguard filters. But if its' like the one in the picture above it's of OEM type quality.. Bosch is a good brand for at least 5000km between oil changes. Probably not much different than the premiums because that is the only kind you can get that is not the higher end Bosch Distance plus filter.

[Ry_Tower]

My Bosch 084 are made in indonesia but the packaging, content and weight seems to suggest it's not fake.

[dvldoc]

Your always pretty safe when you have a country of origin on your filter, That's of course if your buying a Fram, they are junk no matter where hey are made lol. But like I said Bosch is a decent brand way better than VIC. They however are not the same filter media as the premiums because that uses a mixed media similar to K&N or Mobil1 filter so the one there are not as efficient but good for a OEM replacment.

Here are some of the non premium Bosch filter.

[Ry_Tower]

Your always pretty safe when you have a country of origin on your filter, That's of course if your buying a Fram, they are junk no matter where hey are made lol. But like I said Bosch is a decent brand way better than VIC. They however are not the same filter media as the premiums because that uses a mixed media similar to K&N or Mobil1 filter so the one there are not as efficient but good for a OEM replacment.

Good to know that.

[Fleetguard]

*dvldoc: I just got a reply from the technical head of Fleetguard Singapore and he states : "First part is to answer the question on the FF5116.

Appreciate if you can verify with the customer on the source where he had purchased this p/n?
- For example, an invoice issued by the seller where the customer had bought the part from

This will better enable us to identify whether the filter is genuine or not. Based on the photos provided, we are not able to determine whether the product actually comes from us or not. A good verification source will be the purchase tax invoice from the retailer as indicated above.

Based on our data, FF5116 is sourced from an external party in Turkey, which meets our requirement as per stated in our product information catalog and covers under our warranty. So far, there had not been similar complaint received from other regions.

The second part is to answer your other questions on the variances which you had noticed on Fleetguard products from us.

Thanks for your valuable feedback and we really appreciate it.

Moving forward, Corporate had since taken notice of all these variances on our products and do rest ensure that we are working towards resolving all these variances. We will constantly keep you updated on any latest developments on our products."

I will follow-up with Fleetguard regarding your other questions.

[Ry_Tower]

^ nice, nice. Stop with the counterfeits! :twak:

[dvldoc]

How is it sourced independently from Turkey when there is no Fleetguard manufacture plant even there? Singapore is the main distribution hub for all of South east Asia. So what they are saying they are to lazy to walk out to the warehouse and look at the numbers on the case.

All these filters came from Pacer, but other fakes have been purchased at other supposed official dealers.

How come these guys can't verify there own stock, a photo of the filter, a cut away of the filter, the date code of the filter what else do they need?

Yeah I have gotten email replies back from Fleetguard as well but apparently they don't really seem to get anything done.

There has been no complaints because people blindly buy these and assume they are the real deal, If there is no Fleetguard plant in Turkey how does the filter state made in Turkey. They only have a distribution plant in Turkey.

http://www.fleetguard.com/pdfs/produ...03-2011-GB.pdf
Cummins to use Turkey as gateway to Africa - Hurriyet Daily News
Cummins Plans a New Plant in Turkey - Yahoo! Finance

They only have a sales and service center.

It's up to the buyer to check the filter before purchasing it, I've think we have shown without much doubt fakes are being sold. If you look for what has been posted here then you won't have to worry about getting taken for your hard earned peso.

I'm pretty much calling it a dead end with emailing about this issue because I got plenty of replies and it's been almost 2 months yet no action. Singapore supplies the Philippines with these filters if they are a official dealer. Really not my job to do the follow-up for these guys it's there business and frankly it's not that hard.

Worldwide Service Locator

Cummins Turkey

Physical Address: Cummins Makina Sanayi ve Ticaret. LTD. Sti,
Istanbul Deri Organize Sanayi Bolgesi 9.
D-4 34957
Tuzla - Istanbul
Turkey
Telephone: 90 216 581 73 00 Pbx
Fax: 90 216 394 86 07
Engine sales: Faruk.Okandan*cummins.com
Power Gen Sales: adil.tan*cummins.com
Parts Sales: kenan.kaptan*cummins.com
Service: onur.karahan*cummins.com
Territories Covered: Turkey

[Fleetguard]

After due discussion with my colleagues at Fleetguard. We have come to a decision that this is not the proper forum for this matter as anyone can post anything be it truth or blatant lies on the internet. A person with an axe to grind can just throw false accusations hiding under the guise of anonymity. No responsibilities whatsoever. Pictures can be made to look real even if it is not. No complaint was ever lodged. No comment was ever made. It appears to be a personal attack on my reputation as dealer for Fleetguard in the Philippines. This is not the first time and this will not be the last. I am already used to it.

It was therefore decided that we will conduct a seminar with the personnel from FLEETGUARD coming to Manila to speak on this matter, as well as other matters that may be on concern to any of you. If you have any problems or questions, you may ask them personally. For those interested to attend, please email me your name, company, contact details and username, as this will be a small seminar with limited slots available. This will help me keep track of the number of attendees. This seminar will be by invitation only. Date and time to be announced at a later date when everything is finalized.

*dvldoc: you claim that you are in the US, yet you are able to buy these filters from Philippine dealers on a daily basis. How is this possible? You claim to have bought the filters from me so please show me the sales invoice to prove that your accusations. I wonder as to what is your REAL purpose in buying the filter? By the way, I expect to receive your email soon regarding the seminar because I want to personally see your expression when Fleetguard confirms that the Fleetguard filters are genuine!!! I will personally bring the filters I am selling and open it up in front of everyone to see. See you there!

I hope that with this, everyone will be satisfied.

[BKR5]

Mr. Fleetguard by backreading to the first page of this thread you will see and understand Mr. Dvldoc's purpose. This seminar you are proposing is a very welcome gesture to us consumers who are convinced that fleetguard filters are superior to other locally available filters but are just wary that what we might buy may not be the original one. This is a win-win situation for all of us.

[dvldoc]

After due discussion with my colleagues at Fleetguard. We have come to a decision that this is not the proper forum for this matter as anyone can post anything be it truth or blatant lies on the internet. A person with an axe to grind can just throw false accusations hiding under the guise of anonymity. No responsibilities whatsoever. Pictures can be made to look real even if it is not. No complaint was ever lodged. No comment was ever made. It appears to be a personal attack on my reputation as dealer for Fleetguard in the Philippines. This is not the first time and this will not be the last. I am already used to it.

It was therefore decided that we will conduct a seminar with the personnel from FLEETGUARD coming to Manila to speak on this matter, as well as other matters that may be on concern to any of you. If you have any problems or questions, you may ask them personally. For those interested to attend, please email me your name, company, contact details and username, as this will be a small seminar with limited slots available. This will help me keep track of the number of attendees. This seminar will be by invitation only. Date and time to be announced at a later date when everything is finalized.

*dvldoc: you claim that you are in the US, yet you are able to buy these filters from Philippine dealers on a daily basis. How is this possible? You claim to have bought the filters from me so please show me the sales invoice to prove that your accusations. I wonder as to what is your REAL purpose in buying the filter? By the way, I expect to receive your email soon regarding the seminar because I want to personally see your expression when Fleetguard confirms that the Fleetguard filters are genuine!!! I will personally bring the filters I am selling and open it up in front of everyone to see. See you there!

I hope that with this, everyone will be satisfied.

Before you further embarrass yourself, You should try to read the whole thread, this filters are bought by the members of this forum, plenty of post here and in the Nissan Navara section. All the pics from the filters there are either poster here or have been emailed to me. My integrity here and anywhere else is beyond reproach. Never did I state I lived there nor did I personally buy filters from you. In fact nobody even knew what Pacer was or what Fleetguard filters were until I started this thread I posted your information for people to purchase filters from you under the recommendation that you were a authorized dealer. The fact that I do re-sale these filters as a hobby and I verified every thing I stated about the filters with Cumming and all the stocks that I have and I go through a lot of filters.

Does it make sense I would send business your way then try to make you loose it?????

And yeah I do live in the US, you might what to double check to see who your actually talking too I am far from anonymous. Second your here stating that the members here are either lairs and dumb or have some axe to grind with you. Which is stupid because all they want are quality Fleetguard filters that are REAL.

The cut filters prove the simple facts, the discrepancies POINT BY POINT in the filters prove the facts, the fact you cannot comment on my points about what is wrong with the filters proves my point the shop does not know how to spot a fake or what to look for or really anything about the filters except what vehicle they fit. I have almost all the Fleetguard training certs I don't need a seminar.

Again you really really should read the thread and not just the last few pages.

You state no complaint was ever launched or made and people faked these photos Really, Dishonest is one thing I will never be.

to fleetassist.singapore*cummins.com
date Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:48 PM
subject Concern with fake filters in Philippines from Singapore.
mailed-by gmail.com

to george.lim*cummins.com
date Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:39 PM
subject Concern with fake filters in Philippines from Singapore.
mailed-by gmail.com

date Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 5:21 AM
subject Re: Concern with fake filters in Philippines from Singapore.
Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.

hide details Aug 9



Thanks for the additional information. We are following up.

Barry

Barry Verdegan, Ph.D.
Research Fellow
Cummins Filtration Inc.
1801 U.S. Highway 51/138
Stoughton, WI 53589
Tel. 608-873-4371
FAX 608-873-1552
http://www.cumminsfiltration.com

date Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:04 PM
subject Re: Concern with fake filters in Philippines from Singapore.
Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.

hide details Aug 9

our local people can handle this. I thought you might just have one sitting around. You have already been very helpful in this and do not want to inconvenience you further. Thanks again for your help.

Barry

Barry Verdegan, Ph.D.
Research Fellow
Cummins Filtration Inc.
1801 U.S. Highway 51/138
Stoughton, WI 53589
Tel. 608-873-4371
FAX 608-873-1552
http://www.cumminsfiltration.com

m willy.s.suaberon*cummins.com
to <xxxxxxxxxx*gmail.com>
cc jun.marfori*cummins.com,
arturo.v.darjuan*cummins.com,
romeo.m.bunyi*cummins.com,
CR249*cummins.com
date Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:24 PM
subject Re: Fwd: Concern with fake filters in Philippines
Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.

Like I said you should have read the thread before you posted.


But I am sure members of the forum will take you up on the offer of attending the seminar to get some questions answered. Though out this thread I have still stated good filters can be had at Pacer but some simply are not the real deal.

If I have done anything I have opened up a new market for your shop and sent business your way. (Your welcome) we just need to fix this quality control issue.

I also stated the problem is probably from the supply side which is Singapore and the training is just not taught for people to recognize what they should be looking for for Fleetguard quality.

If your truly interested in helping out the customer and expanding the business market base to non commercial vehicles the issue stated on this thread will be addressed.

I wish the best to Pacer not the worst, but a car is a persons second most expensive purchase, a fake filter can cause plenty of damage.

If it was not a problem Fleetguard would have not put a full page ad in the news paper there.

http://www.fleetguard.com/pdfs/produ...re_nl_6-08.pdf

If you want to get ahead of the game you will pull the filters mentioned and ship them to the State for inspection.

[niwde11]

*dvldoc: you claim that you are in the US, yet you are able to buy these filters from Philippine dealers on a daily basis. How is this possible? You claim to have bought the filters from me so please show me the sales invoice to prove that your accusations. I wonder as to what is your REAL purpose in buying the filter? By the way, I expect to receive your email soon regarding the seminar because I want to personally see your expression when Fleetguard confirms that the Fleetguard filters are genuine!!! I will personally bring the filters I am selling and open it up in front of everyone to see. See you there!

try to backread the forum. afaik it is not dvldoc who purchase those fake products. afair it was 12vdc who purchase those products and posted it here to get some opinion regarding those "fakes". afaik 12vdc is from the phillipines. what devldoc is trying to say is some fake items are being sold beside those genuine products. so even if you demand a receipt from devldoc he cannot provide you since we just ask his opinion regarding some products we brought here.
in this way we will minimize the "sorry i dont read that part" analogy.
the purpose of this thread is to get an opinion if some filter are orig or fake. if a certain poster posted a fake item from a legit store, then all of us now will know what fakes are but not the store itself.
the said poster can also tell a lie but it is up to us to believe him.

[Fleetguard]

My apologies if I have offended anyone. It is true that I was unable to read the beginning of the thread. It is true that counterfeit filters abound in the Philippines and it is difficult (if not, impossible to control). We are always on the lookout for these fake filters but is is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Regarding the filter that 12vdc bought, I think this is an original. I checked my own stock and found the stamping number on the side. It has a similar stamping number. Although, I will require the actual filter so that we can fully confirm this with Fleetguard. i have already informed him of this and I am just awaiting for him to bring the filter to me.

Regardin the FF5116, my stock from Fleetguard also came from Turkey. As stated earlier, the filter was outsourced in Turkey. In other words, it was made by a company outside of Fleetguard but under contract with Fleetguard. Although, this plant is not owned by Fleetguard, they will ensure that the company follow oem standards.

Please try to understand that we are doing our best to try to reduce this problem in the country.

Please rest assured that we source our Fleetguard filters from Fleetguard. I have already forwarded your concerns and they are taking steps to correct this.

Thank you very much for your time.

If you have any more concerns, please email me.

[umi001]

After due discussion with my colleagues at Fleetguard. We have come to a decision that this is not the proper forum for this matter as anyone can post anything be it truth or blatant lies on the internet. A person with an axe to grind can just throw false accusations hiding under the guise of anonymity. No responsibilities whatsoever. Pictures can be made to look real even if it is not. No complaint was ever lodged. No comment was ever made. It appears to be a personal attack on my reputation as dealer for Fleetguard in the Philippines. This is not the first time and this will not be the last. I am already used to it.

It was therefore decided that we will conduct a seminar with the personnel from FLEETGUARD coming to Manila to speak on this matter, as well as other matters that may be on concern to any of you. If you have any problems or questions, you may ask them personally. For those interested to attend, please email me your name, company, contact details and username, as this will be a small seminar with limited slots available. This will help me keep track of the number of attendees. This seminar will be by invitation only. Date and time to be announced at a later date when everything is finalized.

*dvldoc: you claim that you are in the US, yet you are able to buy these filters from Philippine dealers on a daily basis. How is this possible? You claim to have bought the filters from me so please show me the sales invoice to prove that your accusations. I wonder as to what is your REAL purpose in buying the filter? By the way, I expect to receive your email soon regarding the seminar because I want to personally see your expression when Fleetguard confirms that the Fleetguard filters are genuine!!! I will personally bring the filters I am selling and open it up in front of everyone to see. See you there!

I hope that with this, everyone will be satisfied.

As already mentioned by other posters, try reading the whole thread before you start making your own accusations - you only embarass yourself. Before I saw this thread, I was perfectly happy with Toyota OEM and VIC filters - now, I'm definitely going to be getting better after-market filters for my cars; and I've talked with other people who've come to the same decision as me, based on this thread. There are no personal attacks that I can see - just a frank, informative discussion and queries on whether certain filters that have been bought are genuine or not.

As to whether this is the proper forum for this - are you trying to hide something? I personally think that this is a great forum for these discussions - a public discussion does not hurt anyone, unless of course there has been some misdeed on one side. Are you saying that there has been?

As mentioned above, I have decided that I will be buying better filters for my car moving forward. However, your attitude on this forum, and the way you take criticism as personal attacks, and your unwillingness to answer simple questions, means that I won't be buying these filters from Pacer; in fact, I won't be buying Fleetguard filters at all.