Devilsown Alcohol Injection Event Results

[jeanpierre]

13-gal cap stainless tank??? sorry guys mali, it's 13-liters capacity stainless tank

[duskylim]

Dear Sirs:

For anyone who's interested, methanol is the simplest alcohol CH4OH, and ethanol (the stuff you can drink, like gin) is the next more complex alcohol, C2H5OH.

Chemically you can look at alcohols as organic hydrocarbons (in this case alkanes - in which there are only single carbon-to-carbon bonds, like methane, ethane, propane, butane - etc.) with a hydroxy ion (the OH part) attached.

In terms of energy, if you burn the alcohol, ethanol has about 50% more combustion energy, but if the main contribution to power is the cooling of the inlet air, methanol has both a higher latent heat of vaporization and a lower boiling point, that is, it will cool the intake air more.

As diesel engines burn only a fraction of the inhaled air, there is still potential for adding fuel to the excess air and deriving power from it. The best method is up to you.

Water in the mix does not add any energy to the combustion, in fact it serves to quench the combustion flame. But it does have the highest latent heat of vaporization (but unfortunately the highest boiling point).

Careful and systematic testing will reveal the best mix for you.

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

P.S. Water - methanol injection per se, could not cause the engine to overspeed - diesel engines are GOVERNED that is, there is a device attached to the injection pump that will control the maximum allowed speed of the engine, preventing over-revving.

What is much more likely is that the Chip he installed allowed the engine to over-rev. Thats' just sad. My condolences, man.

[dvldoc]

Just like stated above a properly installed system with the right alcohol concentration which should never go above 50% for any diesel, in highly modified ones you should run less just to keep the cylinder pressure down. If your chipped 20 to 30% alcohol is really all you should need to run because you already have extra fueling.

Remember these are installed on 10,000 of vehicles there has yet to be one case of a properly installed and operated system to cause any engine failures. The cause is normally contributed to something else that is unrelated. In most cases if you run to much alcohol or mix you engine will simply just stall out until the cylinders have cleared it out after a few dry cranks.

Chip settings can have affect on a vehicle because increased boost, and other fueling changes. Water injection works without changing a single thing to your vehicle.

[Mnmg_2000]

Just like stated above a properly installed system with the right alcohol concentration which should never go above 50% for any diesel, in highly modified ones you should run less just to keep the cylinder pressure down. If your chipped 20 to 30% alcohol is really all you should need to run because you already have extra fueling.

Remember these are installed on 10,000 of vehicles there has yet to be one case of a properly installed and operated system to cause any engine failures. The cause is normally contributed to something else that is unrelated. In most cases if you run to much alcohol or mix you engine will simply just stall out until the cylinders have cleared it out after a few dry cranks.

Chip settings can have affect on a vehicle because increased boost, and other fueling changes. Water injection works without changing a single thing to your vehicle.

sir, any comments regarding what happened on the white santa fe na nasa casa ngayon at kailangan ibalik sa stock engine? are you saying its the fault of the owner?

[dvldoc]

sir, any comments regarding what happened on the white santa fe na nasa casa ngayon at kailangan ibalik sa stock engine? are you saying its the fault of the owner?

There is no way to tell what happened to the motor unless it has been full taken apart. Many things can fail even in new vehicles that have nothing to do with the modifications. Rotds, rockers, crankshafts, oil pumps, the list goes on and on. And since I am physically in Iraq right now there's no way to answer the question. You'll have to let the owner let you know what the issue was. But I will say there is a 99% chance its not water injection related.

The only way you can ruin a diesel motor with alcohol injection is to run to much alcohol in your mix especially if your chipped already. Anyone running more than 50% on a modified vehicle is begging for a blown headgasket or chipped piston.

But in this case the only people that will know the cause will be the shop and that's if they actually breakdown the motor.

[dvldoc]

Well I can confirm from speedlab that the Santa Fe engine had zero to do with the modifications. It something with the ECM and common rail injection system. The engine is not siezed as it does crank, just wont restart.

[rst619]

Well I can confirm from speedlab that the Santa Fe engine had zero to do with the modifications. It something with the ECM and common rail injection system. The engine is not siezed as it does crank, just wont restart.

Good to know that but hpefully the warranty will be honored by the CASA. But (knock on wood), the CASA has some grounds tho for denying the claim esp here in the Philippines.

[LadyRider]

Sir according to people from Hyundai, warranty was void na...

Good to know that but hpefully the warranty will be honored by the CASA. But (knock on wood), the CASA has some grounds tho for denying the claim esp here in the Philippines.

[LadyRider]

Sir if its not due to the modifications, how come most of the SF's are still running smoothly even without it?

Are you saying that there is a glitch with the engine of SF's?

If there was, then every SF here in Pinas would have just experienced the same thing and everybody would be running to HARI to complain!

And why would HARI want to return the engine to its original configuration?

In the first place, kung hindi ginalaw ang engine, this wouldn't have happend...

Just my two cents...

Well I can confirm from speedlab that the Santa Fe engine had zero to do with the modifications. It something with the ECM and common rail injection system. The engine is not siezed as it does crank, just wont restart.

[niky]

The alcohol injection itself wouldn't cause an electronic fault. If it's a fuel rail problem, that's something else entirely, as the alcohol is not injected via the stock fuel rail.

If the vehicle was "chipped", it may be that the chip triggered a fault code causing the stock ECM to shut down, but again, that's not the alcohol doing that. The only way the alcohol can trigger a shutdown is if it contaminates an engine sensor, and given that it passes through the turbo not once, but twice, both before and after the combustion chamber, there's scant chance that any water from the alcohol injector will reach an exhaust sensor.

Not knowing the case and the owner in question, I really don't know what was done to the vehicle. It may be the chip. It's highly unlikely, in my opinion, because if the chip were to cause a fault code with the stock box, it would cause a fault right away, not a few weeks or months down the line. This is for programmables like the Unichip. Preprogrammed ones are a little iffy... and those, if the pre-packaged program does not match your specific car and modifications, can actually destroy your car. One pre-programmed chip Speedlab tested for Tuason Racing on the Focus Diesel made more power than the Unichip, but caused the car to belch black smoke.

It might even be something as simple as a contaminated fuel tank. Water in the fuel tank can cause catastrophic fuel pump or fuel rail failure... if it clogs up the fuel filter, starving the fuel pump, the pump will burn itself out, necessitating a costly replacement. I've seen this and have heard of it happening to certain CRDis, but not to Hyundais (I've always thought Hyundai fuel filters were coarse enough to let the water through)... and it's not pretty.

It should be covered by warranty if this is the case, but obviously, if the car is modified, the dealership (as all dealerships often do) will cite this as a reason for denial. They have to prove that the modifications caused the fault, though... but in the Philippines, such things are hardly ever resolved in favor of the customer.

[C190]

Sir if its not due to the modifications, how come most of the SF's are still running smoothly even without it?

Are you saying that there is a glitch with the engine of SF's?

If there was, then every SF here in Pinas would have just experienced the same thing and everybody would be running to HARI to complain!

And why would HARI want to return the engine to its original configuration?

In the first place, kung hindi ginalaw ang engine, this wouldn't have happend...

Just my two cents...

According to nels76-
Casa mechanics said that the problem was in the "injector o-ring" causing the engine not to restart

[dvldoc]

According to nels76-
Casa mechanics said that the problem was in the "injector o-ring" causing the engine not to restart

Like I said nothing to to with the alcohol injection, Even something as simple as removing a injector and replacing it can cause a problem such as this. And basically that is what happened the o-ring was just not sealing and was what they expected had happened.

The SF should be back up and running in no time.

[dvldoc]

Manila Auto Salon 2008 at SMX Convention Center





Another customers pride and joy.

[niky]

Like I said nothing to to with the alcohol injection, Even something as simple as removing a injector and replacing it can cause a problem such as this. And basically that is what happened the o-ring was just not sealing and was what they expected had happened.

The SF should be back up and running in no time.

Just talked to Auto_Xer... turns out that some mechanic (dunno if it was at the casa, it wasn't at Speedlab daw) disconnected the wiring harness from the injector to inspect it. And that reset the computer, which needed the serial number of the injector programmed back in.

[SaberRider]

I had mine installed. I definitely noticed the increase in grunt but unfortunately I also increased the temp heat. When I open up my engine bay it's too hot, even my muffler is too hot. What could be wrong? I've already tried the proper mixture, I've even tried pure water.

[LadyRider]

Am not familiar with car engines so I just want to ask you guys.

What is the purpose of this "alcohol injection" in your rides? Yes I know it does picks up more speed for the car but is that all?

Doesn't it strain or push the car's engines to its limits since most of the car engines that we have are not designed to be motified as such?

Is it practical here in Manila where almost all roads lead to traffic?

Thanks for the info guys.

I had mine installed. I definitely noticed the increase in grunt but unfortunately I also increased the temp heat. When I open up my engine bay it's too hot, even my muffler is too hot. What could be wrong? I've already tried the proper mixture, I've even tried pure water.

[dvldoc]

I had mine installed. I definitely noticed the increase in grunt but unfortunately I also increased the temp heat. When I open up my engine bay it's too hot, even my muffler is too hot. What could be wrong? I've already tried the proper mixture, I've even tried pure water.

Have you actually used say a digital thermometer or have a pyro gauge installed in your vehicle. Water injection lowers temps, it's a fact of physics not increases them. You might want to have your Thermostat checked or go to a lower temp one like a 180 degree vs the normal factory 195 degree ones which are really bad for that climate.

You might have increased temps because your driving the vehicle harder. You can normally touch the intake and it is quiet cool to the touch even after hard driving. And if you have a EGT gauge you will notice a significant different temp drop in exhaust gas temperatures.

You would even notice the temp difference on the engine temp gauge expecially when going up a steap grade or hauling a heavy load. There is a reason this is used for autocross and events like the Pikes peak it's because it lowers the temps.



Snow

RallyVW's MkIV TDI Golf competed in the Exhibition Class this year at Pikes Peak International Hill climb and set new records as the "Fastest
Diesel Car" and "Fastest Alternative Fuels Diesel".

Cutting over a minute off their previous best time, the TDI ran 14:03.322 using the Snow Performance Boost Cooler beating out one of the factory backed VW Touareg V10 TDI SUV's.

The TDI struggled with excessive EGTs during testing and qualification runs. With sustained exhaust gas temperatures of 1600° f over many minutes, the TDI mercilessly killed 3 turbos. Running short on time, RallyVW turned to Snow Performance for assistance.

A quick stop in at our shop allowed for an evaluation of the situation followed by an impromtu system installation. After some quick dyno tuning the TDI was race ready.

Driver Jon Hamilton reported strong, smooth power increases with huge decreases in EGTs. The combined power gain and exhaust cooling allowed the TDI to complete its run and in record time.

Congratulations to the RallyVW team

VW's and Audis are pretty much the same as far as engines go.

[dvldoc]

Am not familiar with car engines so I just want to ask you guys.

What is the purpose of this "alcohol injection" in your rides? Yes I know it does picks up more speed for the car but is that all?

Doesn't it strain or push the car's engines to its limits since most of the car engines that we have are not designed to be motified as such?

Is it practical here in Manila where almost all roads lead to traffic?

Thanks for the info guys.

Well for turbo diesels here's the basics.
Around 15% to 30% more power
More power at lower rpm = fuel economy
Lower engine operating temps
Lower Exhaust gas temps
Longer turbo life due to lower Exhaust gas temps
Steam cleans the engine (almost zero carbon and soot build up)
Longer engine life(due to clean internals)
Up to a 70% to 80% reduction in emissions (most shops think there equipment is broken when a vehicle that has this installed come in and gets a 0.30 emission result) Pretty common.
Huge difference when pulling a loaded vehicle or needing to overtake especially in high elevation areas.

If your daily routine consist of low speeds and stop and go traffic and no highway use, hauling, trips with the vehicle full. Then the system would be on much less.

The overall benefit of the internal cleaning and extended turbo life makes the system pay for itself.

You can go and look back for the examples of emission/ dyno/ customer testimony done and see the difference for yourself. We don't deal in false claims and this is the only modification available there besides Unichip and others that works as it's advertised to. Everything else there that claims fuel economy, emission reductions, horsepower increase is pretty much a scam.

As long as your system is properly installed and the proper mix is used there are no downsides to alcohol/water injection.

I see you have a VW Bug. our 1.8TDI VW customers are getting as much as 3 to 6gph more in fuel economy or for you guys i guess that would be a liters conversion. But you get the point.

[dvldoc]

I have a BMW 530 Diesel current model. Its been recently chipped with Unichip from SpeedLabs and tuned conservatively to give about 220 HP to the wheels and 545NM of torque to the wheels. I was faciniated by this product and read all 14 pages of the forum on it. What particularly caught my attention were the dyno charts for the Sta. Fe and the Hi Lux that showed even more gains when BOTH the unichip and the devilsown were installed. I asked Ferman if he would recommend this for my car (to lower the temps and increase the power even more) and he said he would not recommend it because it would complicate the electronic signaling. I value his opinion and experience greatly as he tuned my car and I saw the results, however, I'd still like to ask the experts if this is a safe route. I dont see why cooling my turbo and getting more power will be bad.

To devildoc and niky: do you agree with Ferman of SpeedLabs or do you think this will make my care even more fun to drive and even more durable.


thanks!

I don't think Ferman knows we changed the controllers for them, These have there own internal MAP sensor so they will not tap the vehicles map sensor. So there for no way of signal interference, All the kits for there from now on will be getting that style controller. They are not as small but a bit more rugged for the climate.

So this should answer your power and cooling needs. You could also get a Stage one kit which is simply boost activated but if your chipped i would go with progressive controlled for sure.

The new units should be there around the first week of Feb.

I would go with a D01 (pre-turbo nozzle) and (2 gallon per hour nozzle) at the intake. You will see significant Exhaust gas temp drops, faster turbo spool, and more power over the entire rpm band. This is the set up the Fortuner pictured above has along with the UNICHIP, That thing can break loose all tires ever though it's full time 4x4.

[dvldoc]

Who else has had their emission test done and the shop repeated it because they though the equipment was off due to the super low value.