MVPMAP's PhUV feedback thread

[architect]

*dprox,

I promise I won't mention anything about celebrating birthdays. But if you want, I can bring a bottle of Remy Martin VSOP.

[niky]

Of course. :2thumbsup: If and when niky can make time. This much I can say - magkakapit-bahay lang tayo. And that I say not just because of location.
Niky, it's your call. Since I am between you two, I'm willing to host the EB. We have a small bahay kubo at the back. Weekends, di ba? The sooner we get out of analysis-paralysis and do something about it, the better for all. Let's do this.
As ogpro says in his blog, "F*ck it" and move on.
And if Jappy is reading this thread, please accept the warm invitation, and let's pick up from where we left off last Feb 6.
But just so things aren't left too tentative. How's Saturday Jun23 10am?
Ay siyanga pala -- sasama din daw si architect sa EB.
Anyone else? If you want to attend, please bring your list of issues, coz it's gonna be a no-nonsense task-oriented meet.

Hey, thanks for the text last night. Sorry I couldn't make it last time (at the launch), and apologies, again.

I'll see. I might be in Baguio at that time, but if I'm not (my tentative is either 20-22 or 22-24. I'm leaning towards the former.), I'm game.

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What AG4 said also has weight, and it was something I included in the revised article I sent off to Jedi yesterday afternoon. A lot of the problems with the MVPMAP could have been fixed by pasting the top of a Tamaraw on. In fact, use the top and doors of the Tamaraw and work on the exterior styling from there.

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*drey: The Foton design is an Isuzu-clone? Know what block? I'm curious. It makes sense, as Foton gives you the option of purchasing their vehicles with original Isuzu engines. (for about 100k more... ) If it is, and Isuzu parts bolt or slot directly into it, then it should be well-accepted... as long as the public knows as much.

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Truthfully, the article is mostly common sense. When you're starting out a project like this, look at where everyone else started, and see where they were successful, and where they failed. Most of the successful ones went for straight rebadges or licensed technology. Use old dies and machinery, and then fill in the extra details to create an identity.

The Proton Wira is one. While a lot of the panelling was still the same, there was enough of an identity there to hide the fact that it was a rebadge to the non-cognoscenti.

This allows you, like the others have said, to focus on improving safety, features and durability, instead of spending your energy re-inventing the wheel, so to speak.

The problem with a collaborative project like this is the delineation of responsibilities and the matter of who provides the overall direction of the project. Since many of these people are "old-school" suppliers and not engineers or designers, they might not have AutoCAD equipment or internet... a way to coordinate and agree upon expensive prototyping issues before the unit is built... thus the cobbled-together, hand-built nature of the project. Put one engineer and one designer (one who knows what he's doing) in charge of the project, and let the parts suppliers haggle on costing, and the outcome would be much better... hopefully.

I've seen some great minds here in the Philippines, working on automotive projects. There's already a company selling bespoke (not exact Jeep clones) fiberglass bodied vehicles for 400k... and they look better than that. Remember the unfinished supercar featured in the TV Ad a few years ago? That guy lives a kilometer away from me. He simply designed his dream car on AutoCAD and spent a year or two building the body. He didn't have the funds of the MVPMAP, but he produced something good looking, but never finished (because of the lack of funds). One guy like that, and one decent automotive engineer to design a frame to go under it, and we would have a PhUV to be proud of.

[orly_andico]

could be this one:
http://emotor.en.alibaba.com/offerde...el_Engine.html

I've seen quotes for the 4JB1 clone which are only $1250! that's FOB Chengdu or something, but still quite a feat of cheapness.. and it's Euro-I. The Chinese also make CRDi diesels (just do a search on Alibaba and prepare for much amusement).

The Foton design is an Isuzu-clone? Know what block? I'm curious. It makes sense, as Foton gives you the option of purchasing their vehicles with original Isuzu engines. (for about 100k more... ) If it is, and Isuzu parts bolt or slot directly into it, then it should be well-accepted... as long as the public knows as much.

[niky]

Yeah, that looks like it. Less than 80k for an engine is quite a feat. Maybe the block is made of particle board?

But I digress... let's see how the engine performs in the real world first before commenting on the wiseness of the decision.

[orly_andico]

Yeah, that looks like it. Less than 80k for an engine is quite a feat. Maybe the block is made of particle board?

But I digress... let's see how the engine performs in the real world first before commenting on the wiseness of the decision.

Not particle board... pot metal

That engine will probably suffer from loose compression after a few years. I saw a lot of Chery QQ's in Beijing belching blue smoke.

[niky]

Well, Foton =/= Chery. But the cheapness doesn't bode well for durability. They should do a lot of testing before finalizing the engine decision.

[mazdamazda]

sorry M2 but i don't agree in putting powerful engine in the street of metro manila which is the average speed you can achieve in less than 60kph according to MMDA. even if you make EVO a police car it will perform as good as PhUV in the long run.

If you will use it in NLEX/SLEX siguro engine will be significant factor in choosing a car. pero in QC dami na din ako nakikitang suzuki "yellow" bravo na police car, imbes na suzuki eh di yung PhUV na ang bilhin nila...

Meron pang kasabihan ang mga police natin " wala ng bibilis pa sa BALA" hehehe

I didn't anything about putting a powerful engine in our police cars.

What I am saying is to put an adequate engine in a police car. Yes, 40hp+ can reach 60kph but how long would it take to accelerate? By that time, the robbers or other perps would've already gotten away.

Take the example of the recent foiling of a bank robbery wherein the robbers were using a Mazda 626 and a motorcycle. The said vehicle escaped towards SLEX and was stopped there. Another case was the hijacked bus/Adventure/truck that sped through EDSA & SLEX. In those cases, would a 40+hp AUV have done any good?

Regarding 60kph, a bank robber wouldn't drive at only 60kph. Heck, if you have the balls you can drive at more than 100kph along EDSA.

I'd rather have our government to spend a little more on a proper police vehicle that can be used in a REAL emergency.

[orly_andico]

Well, Foton =/= Chery. But the cheapness doesn't bode well for durability. They should do a lot of testing before finalizing the engine decision.

True. But, given a particular price, the durability won't vary much. If you gave Daimler-Benz $1000, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to make a very nice inline-4 diesel engine..

[drey]

I didn't anything about putting a powerful engine in our police cars.

What I am saying is to put an adequate engine in a police car. Yes, 40hp+ can reach 60kph but how long would it take to accelerate? By that time, the robbers or other perps would've already gotten away.

Take the example of the recent foiling of a bank robbery wherein the robbers were using a Mazda 626 and a motorcycle. The said vehicle escaped towards SLEX and was stopped there. Another case was the hijacked bus/Adventure/truck that sped through EDSA & SLEX. In those cases, would a 40+hp AUV have done any good?

Regarding 60kph, a bank robber wouldn't drive at only 60kph. Heck, if you have the balls you can drive at more than 100kph along EDSA.

I'd rather have our government to spend a little more on a proper police vehicle that can be used in a REAL emergency.

like buying a Hiace super grandia? (trust me, may government vehicle na ganito, sosyal noh? tapos natutulog lang ang kotse!)

There are no car chases here in the Philippines. Moreover, even if there were, the Police will still arrive late. Crime scene nalang yan. ANd then, if there were better cars out there, the Police would only spent 90% of their usage near the bar or night house every night.

[mazdamazda]

like buying a Hiace super grandia? (trust me, may government vehicle na ganito, sosyal noh? tapos natutulog lang ang kotse!)

We are talking here of police cars and not the service vehicles of other government officials.

There are no car chases here in the Philippines. Moreover, even if there were, the Police will still arrive late. Crime scene nalang yan. ANd then, if there were better cars out there, the Police would only spent 90% of their usage near the bar or night house every night.

I have just mentioned recent car chase scenarios that occurred in the past two weeks (please read before you quote) wherein the police was able to neutralize the perps and you say that there are no car chases here?

Don't generalize the police force as a whole. There are some decent cops out there who need all the support that they can get.

[Helios]

This is OT but I've witnessed separate car chases which occurred during the wee hours of morning. One along makati kalayaan, and the other along San Juan ortigas. One looked and sounded like one of those car chases on the tely but I tell you they do happen but probably during those ungodly hours when getaways are quick and easy. Maybe we need a couple of powerful police vehicles like those in San Juan to patrol our streets at night while new PhUVs can patrol during daytime.

[Bogeyman]

Regarding the engine, aba'y talo pa yung makina ko ah. Direct injection! :bwahaha:

Kung gagamiting patrol car yan, nakow, baka paakyat pa lang ng 40kph eh nasa hideout na yung mga criminals na hinahabol.

[dprox]

Regarding the engine, aba'y talo pa yung makina ko ah. Direct injection! :bwahaha:
Kung gagamiting patrol car yan, nakow, baka paakyat pa lang ng 40kph eh nasa hideout na yung mga criminals na hinahabol.

Aside from the telltale signs of the absence of bayanihan among the MVPMAP member firms, and the very strongly suspected lack of leadership in the design process (pot luck doesn't work for cars), I think one major problem MVPMAP should solve is communication. Here we are, the public, guessing what uses this already-built vehicle might have. That is so after-the-fact and is jarring to human intelligence. If there's anyone who should be telling us what the PhUV was designed for, it's the MVPMAP design team ... if any.

I've said it hundreds of times, and I don't mind repeating it here : The missing link in the indigenous auto industry is DESIGN. Ang problema kasi dinededma ng industriya ang design process. At siyanga pala -- walang automotive design course sa buong kapuluan. You want the local industry to survive, you gotta have the knowledge base and the talent pool for automotive design. All those countries that have established auto industries have some kind of academic base for design.
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OT: AFAIK, Tsikot.com is the only place in the world that has given safe haven to Filipino auto design fanatics, and a chance to actually build an original Pinoy vehicle.
Sure, we are called "amateurs" by the those who might even be pros in the industry. But I think it's alright to retain our "amateur status". I agree with niky that the most cost-effective source of concept cars are amateurs who dare.

After four months of interacting in this forum, I must say that I've met some of the finest gentlemen I've ever come accross (of course we shouldn't forget the ladies, varga & tsikotbabe) The boorish ones I can count with the fingers in my right thumb.
Amateur status notwithstanding, we can be mighty proud of how the Tsikot Design core group members are reacting to supplement MVPMAP's shortcomings.
And so, I'm starting a thread that describes who might have what it takes to be a part of an amateur auto design team, the Tsikot.com way. Wait lang.
O, ayan : Wanna design a tsikot?
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38980

[drey]

I didn't anything about putting a powerful engine in our police cars.

What I am saying is to put an adequate engine in a police car. Yes, 40hp+ can reach 60kph but how long would it take to accelerate? By that time, the robbers or other perps would've already gotten away.

Take the example of the recent foiling of a bank robbery wherein the robbers were using a Mazda 626 and a motorcycle. The said vehicle escaped towards SLEX and was stopped there. Another case was the hijacked bus/Adventure/truck that sped through EDSA & SLEX. In those cases, would a 40+hp AUV have done any good?

ok sorry my bad... but the question here is that, did the police force done any good with their Altis/Optra/Adventure/Crosswind/Revo etc? I think pwede natin sabihin tsamba...

Ok lets cut the crap, but still, using the PhUV in the police force can still be useful... LIke what old Series 1 Land Rovers do in HK and the LR fire trucks in Brit. 52.30hp and 137nM halos same lang sa 2.1 Diesel engine ng foton.

[Benji_DCP]

Quite late to all this, but will the MVPMAP form a National Car industry that will manufacture this PhUV?

[donbuggy]

Here are my comments and suggestions about the MVPMAP PhUV:




The side grooves and the recess in the panels and bumpers add horizontal lines to the body that make the PhUV look less tall. Bigger windows, bevel around side windows and a lower cowl makes the PhUV look more balanced and less massive. The increase in the downward angle of the front fenders to set it apart from the middle of the hood makes the hood surface look more interesting.

[weremanok]

Here are my comments and suggestions about the MVPMAP PhUV:




The side grooves and the recess in the panels and bumpers add horizontal lines to the body that make the PhUV look less tall. Bigger windows, bevel around side windows and a lower cowl makes the PhUV look more balanced and less massive. The increase the the downward angle of the front fenders to set it apart from the middle of the hood makes the hood surface look more interesting.

wow i'm impressed! some minor alterations here and there and suddenly the phuv is now much more appealing to me. good job!

[devildog]

I hear a lot of good suggestions how to make this PhUV better. If given the chance, would you like to help in the making of the better PhUV? Maybe we should get together and try to find a way to help them make this better.

[Syuryuken]

yung windshield yung may kurbada naman hindi yung diretso kahit sa likod para naman magkaroon ng porma hindi yung box type.

[dprox]

I hear a lot of good suggestions how to make this PhUV better. If given the chance, would you like to help in the making of the better PhUV? Maybe we should get together and try to find a way to help them make this better.

One member of the Tsikot PhUV design roundtable actually offered to help MVPMAP board last January (even before this Tsikot Design and Research forum was created) but was unceremoniously ignored. Now they are getting the flak, so let's hope they have begun to appreciate the fact that designers are indispensable in the overall process.

MVPMAP is composed of parts manufacturers, and IMHO, their fundamental error was to mistake the part for the whole.

The good news is that one of the twelve companies involved in producing the MVPMAP PhUV is already in touch with us offline and listening intently to what this Design Forum has to say to save their PhUV.

Even as we are intent on developing our own Tsikot PhUV, sure! - for love of country - Tsikoteers CAN and WILL help save MVPMAP's newborn baby. And in case you hadn't noticed, we are actually at it already.

[SIZE="1"]Let's call it Project "Saklolo". Joke lang.[/SIZE]