Military Hardware Thread [Split]

[mazdamazda]

AFAIK - when we first acquired our F5s back in the 60s we were the envy of our neighbors.

though retiring those F5s is really practical. should there any invasion threat against the Philippines, we are protected by a mutual defense pact with the US, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

though having a few token aircrafts for our air force is still preferable - we should ought to focus on assault copters & naval warships.

[nicolodeon]

The "F" series fighter that the PAF had:

1. F-86 Sabre (PAF never got to purchase the F-100 Super Sabre)
2. F-8 Vought Crusader (the last pure jet gunfighter)
3. F-5 Freedom Fighter

Air Defense for invader? Aba, eh subukan nilang dumaan sa Bocaue during the last week of December. Baka sa dami ng kwtion na pinapaputok eh matakot na sila.

[coiter]

although i agree that an invasion is far-fetched, if not impossible within the near future, i still believe we should at least maintain a few supersonic fighters. it's purpose may not necessarily be for "external" defense because it will be useless against superpowers like china or russia, but rather for interception, quick-response and perhaps deterrence.

examples would be responding to air/sea escapes by fugitives about to cross borders. deterring sea pirates/smugglers since response time will be shortened. responding to sea/air mishaps (the ability to get to the disaster area immediately and inform the other rescue units of the exact location).

[mazdamazda]

IMO... mas applicable sa atin ang A-10 Thunderbolt... to provide ground support. medyo mura rin siya at around $10M.



though kung supersonic fighter ang hanap ninyo... F-16 ang cheapest ata at around $20M. pwede rin ang mga Sukhoi aircrafts... yan ang binibili ng mga SEA neighbors natin.

[bogart]

Naku, wala na pala akong mapapanood na "Blue Diamond" air-show sa Nichols dahil dito.

[orly_andico]

in a recent exercise the sukhoi su-30mki's of the indian air force won 80% of their engagements against the USAF. although the USAF was operating under some artificial restrictions (e.g. US pilots were not allowed to fire until less than 30km away, whilst the AMRAAM medium-range missile the US uses has a range over 100km).

anyway, not bad for a $22M fighter (su-30mki).

it's been quoted that even a mig-21 or an F5 equipped with a boresight helmet and off-axis short-range missles can hold their own against F14's or F15's. the thai F5's have this system.

[Altis6453]

We probably need some sort of military aircraft which has multi-role capabilities (i.e. primary air defense [interceptor], border patrol, ground support, etc.).

I remember the AFP defending a proposal to acquire Israeli-made Kfir jets to replace the aging F5 fleet. Supposedly, the Kfirs are easy to maintain with their single engine configuration, plus they have air defense and ground support capability. The Kfir aircraft is based on the Mirage III and Mirage 2000 fighter platform and has entered service in such countries like Colombia, Ecuador, and the US. Nung mawala si Mercado as SecDef, nawala tuluyan yung proposal.

Ganda sana ng mga Sukhoi fighters ng Russia, but I don't know if our American allies will look favorably on our armed forces intent to acquire East Block equipment since part of their interests in our part of the world is to purchase military equipment from American manufacturers or from their allies.

[orly_andico]

ditto for Poland, an erstwhile east bloc country.
after their mig-29's fell apart, they had the choice to either buy the eurofighter typhoon or the f-16 block 50 when they joined NATO. instead of currying favor with their new buddies the UK, Germany, and France, they bought 200+ of the arguably inferior F-16 block 50.

[nicolodeon]

While I agree with all your wishes and assesments for our air defense, the unfortunate bottom-line is that our country doesn't have the money to buy new aircraft that can serve as an effective air threat deterrent. We can't even buy a single one.

The past proposals for new fighters are just that: proposals. They would not see the light of day since our country has no money to buy new military birds. A decade or so ago, some countries offered to sell their F-4 Phantom fighters to us. But since the AFP does not have any money in it's coffers, we were not able to buy those fighters. BTW, the F-4s were not new: they were old and being decommissioned by those countries. An F-4 beats an F-5 hands down in terms of payload, range and defense. In fact, some F-4 Wild Weasels are still in service at the US Military.

[IPSG_SlimShady]

For me, ito dapat ang priority list ng government when it comes to funding:

PRIORITY No.1: ARMY/MARINES
- for NPA, Abu Sayyaf, terrorists warfare

PRIORITY No.2: LAW ENFORCEMENT
- improved surveillance, intelligence, and police

PRIORITY No.3: NAVY
- anti-smuggling, pirates, and protection of Spratlys

PRIORITY No.4: AIR FORCE
- all-weather rescue planes/helicopters, attack helicopters, no need for fighter jets

[FrankDrebin]

Looks like we need a new thread for Philippines (Dis)Armed Forces Modernization Ideas. Mods? ;)

[ultraman]

yeah i remember sa news when a F-117 was shot down sa yogoslavia

[rsnald]

I remember the AFP defending a proposal to acquire Israeli-made Kfir jets to replace the aging F5 fleet.

eto yung Israeli Kfir jets na napropose noon. when I read on the news, hinintay ko na dumating. Instead, what we got were the italian made S211 trainer jets which as of last count, tatlong beses na yata nag-crash.




ang isa pang nabalitaan ko sa news, inoffer daw ng Russia yung Fulcrum mig29 sa Pinas. This was after the "perestroika"/glasnost revolution in Russia nung panahon ni Gorbachev. obviously, di rin natuloy



IMHO, we need a decent jet fighter force. kahit isang squadron man lang. lalo na't meron tayong border dispute sa spratlys. wala man lang tayong border patrol makapag fly-by patrol dun sa areas na yun. Considering na ang laki ng archipelago natin, we need a decent air force that could at least conduct quick patrol runs.

[FrankDrebin]

I suggest a VF-1J multi-purpose figther jet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF-1_Valkyrie

;)

[mbt]

imo, we need a navy first before an air force.

[orly_andico]

I suggest a VF-1J multi-purpose fihgter jet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF-1_Valkyrie

best post i've read in this thread today ;)

but while we're at it, why don't we develop our homegrown musical and singing talent (sarah geronimo anyone? hahahahahahaha) after all, a song is all it takes to demolish an entire space battle fleet...

[StraightSix]

ang isa pang nabalitaan ko sa news, inoffer daw ng Russia yung Fulcrum mig29 sa Pinas. This was after the "perestroika"/glasnost revolution in Russia nung panahon ni Gorbachev. obviously, di rin natuloy

I remember that ... balita pa nuon ang deal hindi kailangan ng dollar, kasi barter siya. MIGs for Philippine goods.

[StraightSix]

I suggest a VF-1J multi-purpose figther jet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF-1_Valkyrie

;)

I miss that, Frank, hehehe.

MBT, may Navy naman tayo ... here's the BRP Kawawa:

[niky]

Actually (bwisit... Late na ako sa argument na ito!) what we DO need, we already have.

The F5 is the most cost-effective modern jet fighter. They use them in Top Gun because they're highly maneuverable and are some of the best dogfighting aircraft still flying. Northrop makes some excellent aircraft, but they have been unfairly beaten at competitions for USAF contracts for two of their recent developments, the F20 Tigershark and the F23 fighter (Lockheed won with the F22).

We could use the F18 if the NS Navy decommissioned some. Good reliability, terrific dogfighting AND bomb-carrying capabilities, and it can dogfight successfully on a full ordnance load (two F18 pilots gunned down Iraqi fighters while carrying over 2000 lbs of bombs, and STILL had enough fuel to complete their bombing run). The F20 would be even better. In the time it takes an F16 to warm up and taxi for takeoff, the F20 would already be at 12-20,000 feet, at fighting altitude.

MiGs would be a good, cheap alternative, but you'll get what you pay for. Cheap planes. F5s really are the best compromise, and there's a reason so many Air Forces are still using them.

But in terms of what we REALLY need in the Airforce... we should get some piston powered fighter/bombers with good low-speed cruising abilities (better for ground support)... or Burt Rutan's Mudfighter, if he ever pushes through with it... $1million dollars for a subsonic jetfighter with low maintenance costs and rugged design... too bad he never sold it...

[FrankDrebin]

A serious post this time. hehehe.

About the armed forces modernization IMO, I think we need smaller missile-equipped frigates and more high-speed gun boats. Supported by a e-2/c-2 Hawk-eye aircraft. Heavy-armored Attack choppers like Apache and lotsa support choppers like the Blackhawks, Chinooks, etc. A squadron of "entry-level" jets for patrol and recon. Modern arms/ammo/armor for the infantry. Light-armored Simba tanks look like they are doing a great job in a tropical environment. Modern radar towers. Lastly, nice salaries and benefits for our officers, soldiers and men,