Plug (pasak) then Patch (tapal) on tire?

**k_leos** · December 28th, 2021 10:08 PM

Hi, this morning, na flat ako and I went to a car service center and saw they put plug/pasak (like spaghetti) on the hole. Pero pinalaki muna nila hole to insert it. Yet the technician couldn't insert it. Kaya linagay kunti oil to let it slip. Naka rinig ka ng ganya? But nowhere did I read in the net that it was ok to put some oil. I'm afraid it may either slip or the air inside may get into the belt/ply. What would happen if pa patch ko yun portion inside it to seal the belt/play on the plug/pasak spot?

**glenn_duke** · December 28th, 2021 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by k_leos

Hi, this morning, na flat ako and I went to a car service center and saw they put plug/pasak (like spaghetti) on the hole. Pero pinalaki muna nila hole to insert it. Yet the technician couldn't insert it. Kaya linagay kunti oil to let it slip. Naka rinig ka ng ganya? But nowhere did I read in the net that it was ok to put some oil. I'm afraid it may either slip or the air inside may get into the belt/ply. What would happen if pa patch ko yun portion inside it to seal the belt/play on the plug/pasak spot?

I have a plug/pasak DIY puncture repair kit which I bring in my road trips. Used it twice, yup, its very difficult to insert esp if your tire thread is still thick. My kit has a tube of repair glue included, you put the glue into the puncture before you insert the plug. The oil you think they used is probably the repair kit glue.

I always have it redone in proper vulca shops using the patch. In my observation no air is lost using the plug, I have a tpms to monitor it.

**k_leos** · December 28th, 2021 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by glenn_duke

I have a plug/pasak DIY puncture repair kit which I bring in my road trips. Used it twice, yup, its very difficult to insert esp if your tire thread is still thick. My kit has a tube of repair glue included, you put the glue into the puncture before you insert the plug. The oil you think they used is probably the repair kit glue.

I always have it redone in proper vulca shops using the patch. In my observation no air is lost using the plug, I have a tpms to monitor it.

I'm sure they used oil because the main technician said the assistant get some oil to make easy to insert and I saw him with an old can with oil from the engine oil replacement area and got screwdriver to let the oil in. They didn't use the repair kit glue. The assistant said it was alll oil and rubberized strings. But I'm beginning to worry because I read the hole should be rough and not smoothing it with oil. Also I read plug/pasak can damage the steel belt that keeps the tire's structure intact and can cause bulge in the spot.

If I'd have patch done tomorrow on the spot by opening up the rim. What would likely happen since the hole is now bigger than the original? Would it cause other side effect. A new tire costs 11,000 pesos.

**k_leos** · December 28th, 2021 11:01 PM

About patch. Does anyone know a service center (or vulcanizing shop) around the Thomas Morato Ave area (Timog St) in QC that uses so called cold patch system inside rim instead of using high temperature? How many still use the latter? Also service center with good security because you don't want to be vulnerable with a car inside a corner.

You can dm me if it is not allowed to post a shop name.

I assume it is safe to patch a tire that was already plugged (pasak). Thanks.

**glenn_duke** · December 28th, 2021 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by k_leos

I'm sure they used oil because the main technician said the assistant get some oil to make easy to insert and I saw him with an old can with oil from the engine oil replacement area and got screwdriver to let the oil in. They didn't use the repair kit glue. The assistant said it was alll oil and rubberized strings. But I'm beginning to worry because I read the hole should be rough and not smoothing it with oil. Also I read plug/pasak can damage the steel belt that keeps the tire's structure intact and can cause bulge in the spot.

If I'd have patch done tomorrow on the spot by opening up the rim. What would likely happen since the hole is now bigger than the original? Would it cause other side effect. A new tire costs 11,000 pesos.

The vulca shop crew will use a plier to take off the plug, grind the surface, put a glue and the patch.
The plug is not a piece of metal its ruberry but softer it will contract. So it will not be any bigger than the original hole.

I had a puncture before that needed 2 patches to cover the hole. The patch outlived the life of the tire thread.

**k_leos** · December 28th, 2021 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by glenn_duke

The vulca shop crew will use a plier to take off the plug, grind the surface, put a glue and the patch.
The plug is not a piece of metal its ruberry but softer it will contract. So it will not be any bigger than the original hole.

I had a puncture before that needed 2 patches to cover the hole. The patch outlived the life of the tire thread.

I mean originally, only a nail was in the tire. Then they used screwdriver to make the hole bigger so the rubber plug could fit (as many who users who saw the procedure reported).

If the new shop will put patches inside. He still has to remove the rubber plug? I thought it would remain. What happens if it would not be removed? Without any thing to block the rubber outside, won't air/water from outside like flood, can slowly seep into the belt/ply system over the years?

**glenn_duke** · December 28th, 2021 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by k_leos

I mean originally, only a nail is in the tire. Then they used screwdriver to make the hole bigger so the rubber plug could fit (as many who users who saw the procedure reported).

If the new shop will put patches inside. He still has to remove the rubber plug? I thought it would remain. What happens if it would not be removed? Without any thing to block the rubber outside, won't air/water from outside like flood, can slowly seep into the belt/ply system over the years?

When you insert the plug, there will be an extension of the plug protruding inside the tire. Since its soft rubber, grinding it will be difficult, thats why the crew will remove it using a long nose plier. In most instances all the plug will come out, some will be left behind.

I prefer to leave some part of the plug behind to cover whatever the patch plus tire pressure could not cover.

A puncture is a puncture, its a hole, removing the nail that caused the puncture will not heal the tire, there will still be a hole in there. Patches and plug do their job to keep the air inside your tire. Unless your tire is made of biodegradable rubber, you should not worry about air and water creeping in a tiny hole.

**k_leos** · December 28th, 2021 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by glenn_duke

When you insert the plug, there will be an extension of the plug protruding inside the tire. Since its soft rubber, grinding it will be difficult, thats why the crew will remove it using a long nose plier. In most instances all the plug will come out, some will be left behind.

I prefer to leave some part of the plug behind to cover whatever the patch plus tire pressure could not cover.

A puncture is a puncture, its a hole, removing the nail that caused the puncture will not heal the tire, there will still be a hole in there. Patches and plug do their job to keep the air inside your tire. Unless your tire is made of biodegradable rubber, you should not worry about air and water creeping in a tiny hole.

This morning it was my first time to see a plug in method. I thought it was a new method. Then this afternoon I read this:

Plug And Patch Or Replace Tire? Depends On The Puncture Location -

"The greatest potential danger caused by a plug repair is that this type of repair allows air and moisture to penetrate the body of the tire.

The tire industry maintains that air and moisture slowly seep in between the layers of the tire allowing the steel belts to degrade and causing the tire to deteriorate and corrode from within.

Over time, this corrosion weakens the steel belts and the bonds between the rubber-to-rubber layers and rubber-to-the-wire layers of the tire, greatly increasing the risk of a tread separation."

Then I read accidents in which there were thread separation in a tire and the car rolling over. Imagine something happening to cars in EDSA.

Does anyone know how many car accidents in the Philippines were cause by such tire tread separation (the tread separating from main body)?

For reference see too

Unsafe Tire Repair Methods Persist Despite Strong Evidence of Dangers

"In 1996, in Peterson V. Ress Enterprises, a Chicago jury awarded $12.65 million to the Plaintiff. Peterson was a college student who was rendered quadriplegic in an accident resulting from a tire failure. The Plaintiff contended that the accident tire was improperly repaired by the defendants using a plug-only repair five months before the crash. On appeal, the appellate court affirmed the judgment in favor of the Plaintiff. "

Has anyone heard of similar accidents in the country?

**dr. d** · December 29th, 2021 12:52 AM

i always insist on cold patch.
once, they used the plug. it still leaked within about a week. i brought it to another tire shop, for the more permanent cold patch.
hot patch? not for me.

**glenn_duke** · December 29th, 2021 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by k_leos

This morning it was my first time to see a plug in method. I thought it was a new method. Then this afternoon I read this:

Plug And Patch Or Replace Tire? Depends On The Puncture Location -

"The greatest potential danger caused by a plug repair is that this type of repair allows air and moisture to penetrate the body of the tire.

The tire industry maintains that air and moisture slowly seep in between the layers of the tire allowing the steel belts to degrade and causing the tire to deteriorate and corrode from within.

Over time, this corrosion weakens the steel belts and the bonds between the rubber-to-rubber layers and rubber-to-the-wire layers of the tire, greatly increasing the risk of a tread separation."

Then I read accidents in which there were thread separation in a tire and the car rolling over. Imagine something happening to cars in EDSA.

Does anyone know how many car accidents in the Philippines were cause by such tire tread separation (the tread separating from main body)?

For reference see too

Unsafe Tire Repair Methods Persist Despite Strong Evidence of Dangers

"In 1996, in Peterson V. Ress Enterprises, a Chicago jury awarded $12.65 million to the Plaintiff. Peterson was a college student who was rendered quadriplegic in an accident resulting from a tire failure. The Plaintiff contended that the accident tire was improperly repaired by the defendants using a plug-only repair five months before the crash. On appeal, the appellate court affirmed the judgment in favor of the Plaintiff. "

Has anyone heard of similar accidents in the country?

In the Phil, stupidity beats tire failures in majority of road accidents.

Having a patch over the plug should now give you a peace of mind, it is the recommended proper way to fix a puncture mentioned in the article you posted