Plug (pasak) then Patch (tapal) on tire?

[k_leos]

Hi, this morning, na flat ako and I went to a car service center and saw they put plug/pasak (like spaghetti) on the hole. Pero pinalaki muna nila hole to insert it. Yet the technician couldn't insert it. Kaya linagay kunti oil to let it slip. Naka rinig ka ng ganya? But nowhere did I read in the net that it was ok to put some oil. I'm afraid it may either slip or the air inside may get into the belt/ply. What would happen if pa patch ko yun portion inside it to seal the belt/play on the plug/pasak spot?

[glenn_duke]

Hi, this morning, na flat ako and I went to a car service center and saw they put plug/pasak (like spaghetti) on the hole. Pero pinalaki muna nila hole to insert it. Yet the technician couldn't insert it. Kaya linagay kunti oil to let it slip. Naka rinig ka ng ganya? But nowhere did I read in the net that it was ok to put some oil. I'm afraid it may either slip or the air inside may get into the belt/ply. What would happen if pa patch ko yun portion inside it to seal the belt/play on the plug/pasak spot?

I have a plug/pasak DIY puncture repair kit which I bring in my road trips. Used it twice, yup, its very difficult to insert esp if your tire thread is still thick. My kit has a tube of repair glue included, you put the glue into the puncture before you insert the plug. The oil you think they used is probably the repair kit glue.

I always have it redone in proper vulca shops using the patch. In my observation no air is lost using the plug, I have a tpms to monitor it.

[k_leos]

I have a plug/pasak DIY puncture repair kit which I bring in my road trips. Used it twice, yup, its very difficult to insert esp if your tire thread is still thick. My kit has a tube of repair glue included, you put the glue into the puncture before you insert the plug. The oil you think they used is probably the repair kit glue.

I always have it redone in proper vulca shops using the patch. In my observation no air is lost using the plug, I have a tpms to monitor it.

I'm sure they used oil because the main technician said the assistant get some oil to make easy to insert and I saw him with an old can with oil from the engine oil replacement area and got screwdriver to let the oil in. They didn't use the repair kit glue. The assistant said it was alll oil and rubberized strings. But I'm beginning to worry because I read the hole should be rough and not smoothing it with oil. Also I read plug/pasak can damage the steel belt that keeps the tire's structure intact and can cause bulge in the spot.

If I'd have patch done tomorrow on the spot by opening up the rim. What would likely happen since the hole is now bigger than the original? Would it cause other side effect. A new tire costs 11,000 pesos.

[k_leos]

About patch. Does anyone know a service center (or vulcanizing shop) around the Thomas Morato Ave area (Timog St) in QC that uses so called cold patch system inside rim instead of using high temperature? How many still use the latter? Also service center with good security because you don't want to be vulnerable with a car inside a corner.

You can dm me if it is not allowed to post a shop name.

I assume it is safe to patch a tire that was already plugged (pasak). Thanks.

[glenn_duke]

I'm sure they used oil because the main technician said the assistant get some oil to make easy to insert and I saw him with an old can with oil from the engine oil replacement area and got screwdriver to let the oil in. They didn't use the repair kit glue. The assistant said it was alll oil and rubberized strings. But I'm beginning to worry because I read the hole should be rough and not smoothing it with oil. Also I read plug/pasak can damage the steel belt that keeps the tire's structure intact and can cause bulge in the spot.

If I'd have patch done tomorrow on the spot by opening up the rim. What would likely happen since the hole is now bigger than the original? Would it cause other side effect. A new tire costs 11,000 pesos.

The vulca shop crew will use a plier to take off the plug, grind the surface, put a glue and the patch.
The plug is not a piece of metal its ruberry but softer it will contract. So it will not be any bigger than the original hole.

I had a puncture before that needed 2 patches to cover the hole. The patch outlived the life of the tire thread.

[k_leos]

The vulca shop crew will use a plier to take off the plug, grind the surface, put a glue and the patch.
The plug is not a piece of metal its ruberry but softer it will contract. So it will not be any bigger than the original hole.

I had a puncture before that needed 2 patches to cover the hole. The patch outlived the life of the tire thread.

I mean originally, only a nail was in the tire. Then they used screwdriver to make the hole bigger so the rubber plug could fit (as many who users who saw the procedure reported).

If the new shop will put patches inside. He still has to remove the rubber plug? I thought it would remain. What happens if it would not be removed? Without any thing to block the rubber outside, won't air/water from outside like flood, can slowly seep into the belt/ply system over the years?

[glenn_duke]

I mean originally, only a nail is in the tire. Then they used screwdriver to make the hole bigger so the rubber plug could fit (as many who users who saw the procedure reported).

If the new shop will put patches inside. He still has to remove the rubber plug? I thought it would remain. What happens if it would not be removed? Without any thing to block the rubber outside, won't air/water from outside like flood, can slowly seep into the belt/ply system over the years?

When you insert the plug, there will be an extension of the plug protruding inside the tire. Since its soft rubber, grinding it will be difficult, thats why the crew will remove it using a long nose plier. In most instances all the plug will come out, some will be left behind.

I prefer to leave some part of the plug behind to cover whatever the patch plus tire pressure could not cover.

A puncture is a puncture, its a hole, removing the nail that caused the puncture will not heal the tire, there will still be a hole in there. Patches and plug do their job to keep the air inside your tire. Unless your tire is made of biodegradable rubber, you should not worry about air and water creeping in a tiny hole.

[k_leos]

When you insert the plug, there will be an extension of the plug protruding inside the tire. Since its soft rubber, grinding it will be difficult, thats why the crew will remove it using a long nose plier. In most instances all the plug will come out, some will be left behind.

I prefer to leave some part of the plug behind to cover whatever the patch plus tire pressure could not cover.

A puncture is a puncture, its a hole, removing the nail that caused the puncture will not heal the tire, there will still be a hole in there. Patches and plug do their job to keep the air inside your tire. Unless your tire is made of biodegradable rubber, you should not worry about air and water creeping in a tiny hole.

This morning it was my first time to see a plug in method. I thought it was a new method. Then this afternoon I read this:

Plug And Patch Or Replace Tire? Depends On The Puncture Location -

"The greatest potential danger caused by a plug repair is that this type of repair allows air and moisture to penetrate the body of the tire.

The tire industry maintains that air and moisture slowly seep in between the layers of the tire allowing the steel belts to degrade and causing the tire to deteriorate and corrode from within.

Over time, this corrosion weakens the steel belts and the bonds between the rubber-to-rubber layers and rubber-to-the-wire layers of the tire, greatly increasing the risk of a tread separation."

Then I read accidents in which there were thread separation in a tire and the car rolling over. Imagine something happening to cars in EDSA.

Does anyone know how many car accidents in the Philippines were cause by such tire tread separation (the tread separating from main body)?

For reference see too

Unsafe Tire Repair Methods Persist Despite Strong Evidence of Dangers

"In 1996, in Peterson V. Ress Enterprises, a Chicago jury awarded $12.65 million to the Plaintiff. Peterson was a college student who was rendered quadriplegic in an accident resulting from a tire failure. The Plaintiff contended that the accident tire was improperly repaired by the defendants using a plug-only repair five months before the crash. On appeal, the appellate court affirmed the judgment in favor of the Plaintiff. "

Has anyone heard of similar accidents in the country?

[dr. d]

i always insist on cold patch.
once, they used the plug. it still leaked within about a week. i brought it to another tire shop, for the more permanent cold patch.
hot patch? not for me.

[glenn_duke]

This morning it was my first time to see a plug in method. I thought it was a new method. Then this afternoon I read this:

Plug And Patch Or Replace Tire? Depends On The Puncture Location -

"The greatest potential danger caused by a plug repair is that this type of repair allows air and moisture to penetrate the body of the tire.

The tire industry maintains that air and moisture slowly seep in between the layers of the tire allowing the steel belts to degrade and causing the tire to deteriorate and corrode from within.

Over time, this corrosion weakens the steel belts and the bonds between the rubber-to-rubber layers and rubber-to-the-wire layers of the tire, greatly increasing the risk of a tread separation."

Then I read accidents in which there were thread separation in a tire and the car rolling over. Imagine something happening to cars in EDSA.

Does anyone know how many car accidents in the Philippines were cause by such tire tread separation (the tread separating from main body)?

For reference see too

Unsafe Tire Repair Methods Persist Despite Strong Evidence of Dangers

"In 1996, in Peterson V. Ress Enterprises, a Chicago jury awarded $12.65 million to the Plaintiff. Peterson was a college student who was rendered quadriplegic in an accident resulting from a tire failure. The Plaintiff contended that the accident tire was improperly repaired by the defendants using a plug-only repair five months before the crash. On appeal, the appellate court affirmed the judgment in favor of the Plaintiff. "

Has anyone heard of similar accidents in the country?

In the Phil, stupidity beats tire failures in majority of road accidents.

Having a patch over the plug should now give you a peace of mind, it is the recommended proper way to fix a puncture mentioned in the article you posted

[dr. d]

In the Phil, stupidity beats tire failures in majority of road accidents.

there is an old saying,
"no amount of safety engineering, can beat good old-fashioned stupidity."

[k_leos]

i always insist on cold patch.
once, they used the plug. it still leaked within about a week. i brought it to another tire shop, for the more permanent cold patch.
hot patch? not for me.

I talked to a cousin yesterday. He told me "plug is inserting rubber on the hole. patch is like band aid. the problem with patch is repair is in the inside. but you tire still has a hole on the thread/outside. the thread are running on wet roads tendency is for water to seep thru the un plug hole there by causing rust to your steel belts which are sandwich between your patch and rubber threads. hence better plug kasi the seal is done inside and out. therfore water wont seep thru the hole. steel belts wont get rusted.".

So with cold patch inside only, won't it rust the steel belts since water can go inside without any plugs?

I know if I'd have cold patch done, they would pull the plug with pliers since as Glenn_duke mentioned, there is an extension inside they can't just grind it since it would be more difficult.

Also look at following.



What shop can do the middle one here (it uses a plug with patch in one like in the following)?



How To Properly Repair a Tire - YouTube

[dr. d]

there were no rust issues, back when belts were made of non-rusting materials like nylon.

[Miles_on]

tendency is for water to seep thru the unplugged hole there by causing rust to your steel belts which are sandwiched between your patch and rubber threads. hence better plug kasi the seal is done inside and out. therefore water wont seep thru the hole. steel belts wont get rusted.".

So with cold patch inside only, won't it rust the steel belts since water can go inside without any plugs?

Maybe one shouldn't fret too much about this.

If, (and by the time it takes) those belts to start to corrode it would probably be high time to replace the tires na rin anyway. Tipong thousands of km na rin natakbo or over 6yrs na rin yung gulong from manufacture date.

That is, if you have a good quality tire (not necessarily expensive) naman and don't abuse it sobra. As for those cheaper ones from China that look similar (on the outside) but actually differ in terms of quality (its what's on the inside that really counts!), ewan ko lang...

[oj88]

TL;DR Use the repair method that makes the most sense for your situation. Use cold patch if available. For quick field repairs, string plugs will do. Either methods comes along with caveats.

During the 2000s, I had a 100cc scooter and my tire repair kit consists of string plugs and a hand pump. I also brought along Slime tire sealant. These are specifically meant for quick field tire repairs. However, scooters have only about half the tread depth (or even less) than that of a car tire so the string plug would start leaking as the tire wear down near the end of its life. Those Metzeler scooter tires were the bomb back then because of their grip, but they do wear down quick. String plugs made sense because by the time the plugs starts to leak, it's almost always time to replace the tire anyway. The Slime just prolongs the inevitable.

Back to today, Dec. 2021, the last puncture on my Innova was around 2 weeks ago. The vulcanizing shop just repaired it with a string plug. I would've wanted a cold patch but weighing how old the tire is (43k KM), I agreed on the more temporary repair. It's holding its own at the moment but I'm planning to replace the tires soon.

Now, if the circumstances were better, I'd prefer a cold patch.... the "German patch", as the local vulcanizing shops know it. In my experience, these prove to be very reliable down to the last millimeter of tire tread. The downside is, it is a lot more involved, takes five times as long to fix, and costs more per hole to patch.

[Miles_on]

I also brought along Slime tire sealant. These are specifically meant for quick field tire repairs. xxx The Slime just prolongs the inevitable.

Ay naku, share ko lang, never, ever use these, even yung mga "instant tire repair" in a can.

Sisirain niyan tire mo. When you pull it off the rim for a proper repair na, kadalasan irrecoverable na. The goop is stuck and messed up na sa loob. Replace gulong situation na yun. If you insist on keeping it, you'll never be able to balance it properly na rin.

Pang in cases of extreme necessity/emergency lang siguro talaga usefulness nito (ex. lady driver alone in a dangerous place), pero yung tipong tinatamad ka lang magpalit ng gulong, most often you'll regret it.

[Miles_on]

TL;DR Use the repair method that makes the most sense for your situation. Use cold patch if available. For quick field repairs, string plugs will do. Either methods comes along with caveats.

Agree.

For example, if you have the misfortune of having 2 flats at the same time, medyo mahirap naman ata maging choosy under those circumstances!

One other thing to consider din with tires na na-vulcanize na is you won't be able to trust the tire's speed rating na rin (bec. honestly, unknown yung quality talaga ng repair. Walang pang test nun).

Not too much of an issue with me though kasi mababagal naman yung mga cars ko I doubt they'd EVER even come close to the maximum permissible sa "S" speed rating, even when they were freshly broken in LOL

[dr. d]

when i get a flat tire within the civilized world,
i just ask the local yokels, or a passing taxi driver or tricycle driver,
to do the tire replacement for me.
then i slip 'em a hundring bucks. both happy kami.
it's not that tiring, watching him do the huffing and puffing.

not that i do not know how!
medyo hassle kasi magpalit ng gulong , dressed in your conference best.

[oj88]

Ay naku, share ko lang, never, ever use these, even yung mga "instant tire repair" in a can.

Sisirain niyan tire mo. When you pull it off the rim for a proper repair na, kadalasan irrecoverable na. The goop is stuck and messed up na sa loob. Replace gulong situation na yun. If you insist on keeping it, you'll never be able to balance it properly na rin.

Pang in cases of extreme necessity/emergency lang siguro talaga usefulness nito (ex. lady driver alone in a dangerous place), pero yung tipong tinatamad ka lang magpalit ng gulong, most often you'll regret it.

Used it twice only during my scooter days. I know about how it corrodes the inside of a metal rim, but mostly it's superficial (ie. the paint flakes off).

As for the goop in the tires, in my situation, palitin na rin by that point so not a major issue.

But yes, don't use these products in your vehicles unless you're out of other options. If you do, clean it out as soon as possible or palitan na yung tire (in case it's already worn out).

[Miles_on]

when i get a flat tire within the civilized world,
i just ask the local yokels, or a passing taxi driver or tricycle driver,
to do the tire replacement for me.
then i slip 'em a hundring bucks. both happy kami.
it's not that tiring, watching him do the huffing and puffing.

not that i do not know how!
medyo hassle kasi magpalit ng gulong , dressed in your conference best.

Oo naman. I hate changing tires. Never mind the exertion involved, ang dumi dumi mo pa pagkatapos.
Bwiset na mga scissors (diamond) jack na OEM for almost all cars and even SUVs.

Ok, I know negligible naman yung weight & fuel savings if you put a bottle or alligator jack in your vehicle, pero ayaw ko ng sangkatutak na gamit sa sasakyan eh, so when necessity calls, eh ayun, tiis using what you have (kasalanan ko eh).