Gas saving device

[niky]

If you believe the glowing testimonials, sure, it works. If you believe the disgruntled ex-owners and unconvinced emissions testers, of course it doesn't.

Read this entire thread... see what you think.

Factual testing data and rebuffs start appearing after page 20 somewhere.

[Hell_racer]

thanks niky!

btw, pede ba to sa benz?
hehe

[niky]

Sure! Just put the Khaos Super Turbo Charger, the Alegre Exhaust Gas Oxidizer, the Fitch Fuel Catalyst, the Taiwanese Intake Magic (magnetic strip... stick it to the intake), and a few others, and watch your fuel efficiency go up 1000%! :D :D :D

[luckytruck]

and watch your maintennance bill go up by 1000% also

andy

[ghosthunter]

not only that, performance is boosted 500% :D

[yebo]

and your "SUCKER RATING" will get a 10,000,000% turbo boost!

[5Speed]

bahhh....maganda yan......harharaharharahrahrarharhar:bwahaha::bwah aha:

[the_wildthing]

I think they will throw in a sticker "SUCKER ON BOARD" if you buy all those from the dealer.

[ghosthunter]

...and dont forget the free t-shirt with the words Born Yesterday. That comes free with every installation of the said product if you got it direct from the manufacturer.

:D :D :D

[kiper]

OT na kayo mga fafa..

A friendly reminder from your Tsikot Moderator.

Maraming Salamat po.

kiper

[mazdamazda]

I just skimmed through the implementing regulation of the Clean Air Act.

There is a large loophole in there that allows the proliferation of said devices.

In the Clean Air Act, only NEW vehicles from Jan 1, 2003 and onwards will be measured for NOx to mimic the Euro1 emmission standards. But this testing will only be done before the said vehicle is released to the customer.

Afterwards, it will only undergo the regular emmission testing for CO & HC.

[doc eric]

Hmmm....

[jaemee_w64]

pasensya na po, tao lng.... or shld i say, tinamad magbasa :oops:

i thought i was helping but actually made it worst. what in the hell do i know about cars anyway...im just a poor lil ol gal. me and my big mouth. puro violent reaction 2loy napala ko.

sorry, ndi na po mauulit :sorry:

guys, thanks for the site you've posted though. ive checked 'em then i realized... geex, i dont know what they're talking about and why shld i care...i dont even have a car yet. :lol:

[banana_republic]

Wouldn't it be to the best interest of all to have car manufacturing firms underwrite the testing of all these energy saving devices by the US EPA ?

Maybe this forum and other pinoy forum members can send out a petition addressed to the car manufacturers.

This would benefit everyone, the car manufacturers, motorists, government and even the gas-saving device manufacurers.

[alb3ar]

After reading a lot of interesting debate regarding the Khaos Super Turbo Charger I would want to point out some things and ask some questions.

Having spoken to some engineers whom agreed on a common concept that the ideal air: fuel ratio is at 14.7:1 which we can round off to 15:1 Supposedly at this ratio, fuel burn is ideal ergo maximum fuel savings. For most vehicles of the 1600cc- 2 Liter displacement I believe this is in part why the recommended cruising speed is somewhere between 80-90 Km/hr on 5th gear or in overdrive (if automatic transmission).

To quote Khaos website www.khaos.com.ph

"What is KHAOS Super Turbo Charger?
Khaos Super Turbo Charger (KSTC) is an air regulating device which introduces the right amount of air required to ratio of air and gasoline mixture and ensure complete combustion."

Probably the reason for this is a richer air:fuel ratio even at low speeds is achieved.

My question is this:
1. Who decided that the US EPA is applicable to people in the Philippines?

An argument raised by one poster was that even the US EPA descounts a lot of devices as bogus.
The post came with a matching link to the US EPA website, and the website evaluated over a hundred different gadgets including those which affect air-fuel ratios (like the khaos gadget).

...Testing of all these energy saving devices by the US EPA shows that no device of the air bleeder concept showed any dramatic fuel savings.

Therefore it is easy to dismiss that the Khaos Super Turbo Charger is a dud.

My rebuttal to this point is simple:

In Manila, you would be extremely lucky to get your car to run at 30km/hr at EDSA. In practice I get to drive at speeds ranging from 0-30 km/hr.

When I was in Guam (a US territory), although traffic speed limit is 35mph (or roughly 56km/hr) the regular speed is usually 40-50 mph (64-80 km/hr). Whereas in the mainland, traffic speed limits vary from 55-65 mph (88-104 mph).

Therefore when driving in the US you are most likely to hit the sweet zone and get the 15:1 air:fuel ratio therefore rendering gadgets like the Khaos Super Turbo Charger all but useless.

However, if you are in the Philippines and are cruising in speeds less than the 80-90 km/hr range, you may be in the area wherein the air:fuel ratio is LESS THAN the theoretical 15:1 ideal ratio.

Thus I feel the US EPA is not a good standard for us as the driving conditions in the US are totally different from here in Manila.

2. Where are test results here in the Philippines?

Real results please, not anecdotal findings.

3. What speeds did the car run?

Ideally what should be done is that a test car run from quezon city to manila via españa then back to Quezon City via edsa to get a credible real world baseline.

Then the same vehicle be fitted with the gizmo then run the same route the next day at the same time to simulate similar road conditions.

A comparison of consumption could be acquired.


I seriously doubt the US EPA finding that the Khaos super turbo charger will add to fuel economy simply because the driving conditions wherein the Khaos would be beneficial would be rare as gridlock is more of the exception rather than the norm. For the Philippine driving setting, it may actually help as we are usually in the <80-90 kmh zone.

**** 80-90kmh arbitrally used as the reference for ideal fuel economy as this is the recommended crusing speed in my vehicle (96 VW Polo) for maximum fuel economy. This may be be higher or lower depending on engine displacement and fuel type.

[banana_republic]

I seriously doubt the US EPA finding that the Khaos super turbo charger will add to fuel economy simply because the driving conditions wherein the Khaos would be beneficial would be rare as gridlock is more of the exception rather than the norm. For the Philippine driving setting, it may actually help as we are usually in the <80-90 kmh zone.

Huh?:confused:

Where was it written that "the US EPA finding that the Khaos super turbo charger will add to fuel economy "?

"gridlock is more of the exception rather than the norm"...where?



:confused:

[mazdamazda]

alb3ar,

1. no one decided that the US EPA is to be used here in the philippines.

but using the US EPA as the standard is justifiable because they are using standard testing techniques.

and are you saying that just because we are travelling less than 80kph it means that the engine is already not operating within the 15:1 air-fuel ratio?

3. your suggestion of a "real world" test scenario is unacceptable IMO since using the said route will expose the vehicle to varying degrees of inconsistencies. what if the average speed dropped the next day (because it was quiapo day?) or a jeep broke down, etc...

[empy]

Originally posted by alb3ar
In Manila, you would be extremely lucky to get your car to run at 30km/hr at EDSA. In practice I get to drive at speeds ranging from 0-30 km/hr.

When I was in Guam (a US territory), although traffic speed limit is 35mph (or roughly 56km/hr) the regular speed is usually 40-50 mph (64-80 km/hr). Whereas in the mainland, traffic speed limits vary from 55-65 mph (88-104 mph).

Therefore when driving in the US you are most likely to hit the sweet zone and get the 15:1 air:fuel ratio therefore rendering gadgets like the Khaos Super Turbo Charger all but useless.

However, if you are in the Philippines and are cruising in speeds less than the 80-90 km/hr range, you may be in the area wherein the air:fuel ratio is LESS THAN the theoretical 15:1 ideal ratio.

Thus I feel the US EPA is not a good standard for us as the driving conditions in the US are totally different from here in Manila.

interesting and creative theory, but the US EPA tests for both city (simulated stop-and-go) driving and highway (steady/high speed) driving. none of these devices improved either.

also, as mazda2 points out, real-world testing anywhere in the world is ineffective because of variances like traffic, stop lights, etc. a controlled lab test that simulates all types of driving is far more effective.

2. Where are test results here in the Philippines?

Real results please, not anecdotal findings.

amen to that. it's suspicious that an inventor who claims to make a revolutionary scientific breakthrough has seemingly no interest in submitting any kind of scientific proof to back it up.

[doc eric]

However, if you are in the Philippines and are cruising in speeds less than the 80-90 km/hr range, you may be in the area wherein the air:fuel ratio is LESS THAN the theoretical 15:1 ideal ratio.


One can go slower and still run at the correct AF ratio...

[OTEP]

Fuel economy is one aspect.

Emissions level is another...

And being invented by a guy who calls catalytic converters 'bad', I have my doubts.

And the fact that he would not do a pre-test, post-test NOx emission test on with his device installed really casts a huge doubt to its environment friendliness.